Really.... And you just remembered it? Well I hope that tag is added to all of them moving forward. Wonder if the OP forgot there was a tag too?[emoji12]
Not a word from Brewha.
I have read through this entire thread all 21 pages as well as the 42 pages of this thread https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=452229&page=42
I am a potential BIAC customer and all I can say is although Nathan should have stepped up just to cover his reputation I also understand it was part user fault part manf fault.
Either way after reading 60+ pages on the device and only having a couple failures which although could have been protected with a PR are still users fault. there are many more people that consistently have success on the BIAC.
it hurts me inside to know Nathan didnt step up to save himself this thread of negativity but if anyone is serious about buying a BIAC they will read the thread i listed above and see its pretty much 99% success rate with the BIACS.
I hope Nathan is reading this and i still think he should step up and replace the conical but in the end even if he doesn't I don't think its going to sway any SERIOUS buyers to not buy it.
I have read through this entire thread all 21 pages as well as the 42 pages of this thread https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=452229&page=42
I am a potential BIAC customer and all I can say is although Nathan should have stepped up just to cover his reputation I also understand it was part user fault part manf fault.
Either way after reading 60+ pages on the device and only having a couple failures which although could have been protected with a PR are still users fault. there are many more people that consistently have success on the BIAC.
it hurts me inside to know Nathan didnt step up to save himself this thread of negativity but if anyone is serious about buying a BIAC they will read the thread i listed above and see its pretty much 99% success rate with the BIACS.
I hope Nathan is reading this and i still think he should step up and replace the conical but in the end even if he doesn't I don't think its going to sway any SERIOUS buyers to not buy it.
Methinks you have a personal relationship with the owner if anything that has happened hurts you inside, which puts your objectivity in question.
I do think it would sway some buyers, and this particular market only has so many. Not only the failure of the part, but also the way the subsequent interaction was handled. That might be even more of a factor for some.
I am not in the market for one of these and will most likely never be.. But with the omission of a $10 part and the unwillingness to make any reparations, I would seriously think long and hard before I would make a purchase.
As said before, if even one potential customer decided not to buy it cost the company more than replacing the damaged one. I am sure it could have had parts replaced at far less cost than replacing with a new one. That should be standard practice in a case like this.
I read through this thread in its entirety and just bought one...
Ok. Are you saying this thread did nothing to sway your decision? Not sure the point of the post.
I assume the point was that he read the whole thread and bought one in spite of it. He's just chiming in his two cents which is interesting because the assumption/opinion by many in this thread is that anyone considering buying one would decide not to after reading this thread. Which is clearly not the case with him.
My two cents: I'm not in the market anytime soon for one of these, and likely never will be. But this thread would never keep me from buying one. I'd be MUCH more cautious about purchasing one, that's for certain. But after spending time on their website it looks to me like it is pretty clear what steps need to be taken to avoid buckling this thing and they make it pretty clear. Yes, I'd feel much better about it if they built these failsafes into the product and I hope they still elect to do that someday. But I'm not dissuaded from buying one.
I assume the point was that he read the whole thread and bought one in spite of it. He's just chiming in his two cents which is interesting because the assumption/opinion by many in this thread is that anyone considering buying one would decide not to after reading this thread. Which is clearly not the case with him.
This string of votes in favor of the product seem much more than simple coincidence to me.
He is apparently a smarter businessman than I thought.. kudos.
This string of votes in favor of the product seem much more than simple coincidence to me.
He is apparently a smarter businessman than I thought.. kudos.
I believe this wasn't a manufacturer's pressure fault, it was a user's vacuum fault.
As an update for everyone I will say that I had the unit pounded out based on Nathans recommendation. It pounded out very easily---too easily. It is very thin metal and as someone else said "fragile". We are of the assumption these units will not last over time. Save your money guys and buy a durable piece of equipment that will last.
I asked Nathan at Brewha specifically for the material used for the inner vessel construction, here's his reply:
Hi Ken,
Thank you for your inquiry!
The 3-in-1 is made with 1.5mm stainless steel. It is durable. I don't know of any homebrew equipment that uses thicker material (though it may be out there) and I am aware of many companies that use 0.8mm and 1.2mm. I list the pressure at 3psi for vessel and 5psi for jacket as this is a very safe margin for operation while allowing a brewer to do everything that is necessary for the brewing process.
To build the vessel for 80psi (e.g. municipal water) would require 1/4" steel, which would increase the cost dramatically as there would be additional material, transportation (it would be much heavier) and certification expense (anything above 15psi needs to be certified as a pressure vessel).
Does that address your concern?
1.5 mm stainless steel throughout is 16 ga. Seems like a reasonable gauge. In fact, it's industry standard for beer kegs.
For example, here's a link to another company that makes kettles and they are quite proud that theirs are made of 1.2mm steel. http://spikebrewing.com/pages/faqs
The Brewha seems to be well engineered and well built. This thread did help to make me do a lot more research into this system, but after analyzing what I've found, I still have the confidence to give Brewha my $5000 as I believe it to be well designed and well built. Maybe not perfect, but as good or better than anything else out there.
I've looked at the Sabco, but I don't have the floor space and I don't want gas. I've looked at the Blichmann Breweasy, but I'm not as impressed with the design or the execution, plus there's just more pieces to move around.
I'm prepared to pay the cost for a superior system. If once I start using it I find it less than satisfying, I will be sure to report my findings.
I will let the forum know in any case.
My response at this point would be
"make this right or I will DESTROY YOU......... I spent $5k for your product, and it failed in NORMAL USE. I will join every home brewing forum on the planet and make sure EVERYBODY KNOWS ABOUT THIS.......... Is that what you want........ can you afford this?........ One pissed off customer can do an immense amount of damage, and I intend to do as much damage as possible if you blow me off".......
I'm a hard ass........ I've used this strategy several times and gotten satisfaction. No business can afford and angry customer on a rampage. Be that angry customer on a rampage........ or at least make them think you are. I've been in business for over 30 years, and my customers are my biggest asset. I've made mistakes.......but I make them right.
You have photos, and documentation..... Make it damn clear that you are going for the juggular!!
H.W.
Happy to see someone with some common sense
It is completely unrealistic to expect the manufacturer to make this equipment with material that is indestructible......... The pressure and vacuum issues are KNOWN issues that apply to any jacketed fermenter. Making sure that the owner is educated as to this potential issue is obviously extremely important to protect against this sort of disaster. More important to protect the company and owner is installation of fail safe devices. This equipment is not being marketed to trained professionals.
A water inlet pressure regulator is a no brainer........ at $12.14 (Walmart) for an RV water pressure regulator, it's cheap insurance. The vacuum relief valve can be just as simple and cheap at a mere $8.75
For less than $21....... a one "time insurance payment, you can take out insurance to protect a $1600 fermenter........... Who wouldn't buy those options? Only an idiot!! But they are NOT even offered as options............ This is insurance Brewha should take out to prevent situations like this one......... and pass the $20 on to the customer.
H.W.
pressure regulator:
http://www.walmart.com/ip/29764332?...38479712&wl4=&wl5=pla&wl6=78652139792&veh=sem
Vacuum relief:
http://www.bigbrandwater.com/relief...GibZDhFGixpBhdZ38DEK8mRPsiEYmUtDoPRoCAoLw_wcB
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