Failed wild ferment - Salvage attempt

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Sequoiacider

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After many successful Wild Fermentations, I finally had a failed one. Time to see if I can salvage. Here's the story:

Typical Wild Fermentation experience: Press apples, pour aerated fresh pressed juice into clean and sanitized fermenter.. No sulfites or yeast added. Let it do its thing. White spots appear on surface, which upon inspection are conglomerations of very small bubbles, soon transitioning to full active fermentation. Full active fermentation starts 2-5 days after pressing.

This time: Followed my normal procedure (mostly, notes below) for 11.5 gallons, split into 3 carboys. OG 1.056, pH 3.11. 2 days later, nothing happening. Continue waiting and monitoring. Day 4, I stop at home during my lunch break and notice something I have never seen before in my fermentations: Strange white hair-like growths coming out of the surface in a couple spots (picture attached) in one of the carboys. I also notice a couple small white spots that are definitely not the normal conglomerations of small bubbles. At this point, I already know something bad is happening, but it is my lunch break from work, so I don't have time to do anything at that moment. Come home in the evening, inspect, and I find similar hairlike growths and white spots in the other two carboys as well.

Definitively some kind of infection. Damn! Time to see if I can salvage it. Might as well try instead of dumping it right now. If it doesn't work out, then I can dump it later, but if it does work out maybe I'll end up with something interesting.

I've now racked off the salvageable juice with a siphon. I generously avoided the top few inches of liquid in each carboy, for a loss of a bit over 2.5 gallons, leaving me with just under 9 gallons remaining. The juice looks good and smells mostly normal at this point, though I feel like there is a perceptible Sweet, Cloying smell to it, almost like the smell of honey. I then added Sulfites (K-Meta) to hopefully kill any baddies still lurking. Waited 12 hours, pitched with S-05 this morning.

What did I do differently this time compared to previous times? I have identified two main differences: 1) Due to the amount of juice i had, I initially left more head space in the carboys than I normally would. I don't think that is the main issue, but could definitely be a contributing factor. 2) I sanitized my Carboys with sanitizing solution that I had mixed up the night before and had left uncovered overnight. Normally I mix up solution fresh, but I was lazy. I think my laziness was the problem here.

My fingers are crossed. I'll post updates as it progresses.
Ciderhair.jpg
 
That's mold. You should dump it because mold is allergenic and can produce toxins. Sorry :(

Delayed fermentation allows mold growth.
It was possibly the low pH of the juice that delayed fermentation. Do you have records of pH from previous batches?

Do you wash the apples? That also delays fermentation.

How about temperature? Colder temp increases lag time.

It's unpasteurized juice... Your sanitization had nothing to do with this. Mold spores are everywhere.
 
After many successful Wild Fermentations, I finally had a failed one. Time to see if I can salvage. Here's the story:

Typical Wild Fermentation experience: Press apples, pour aerated fresh pressed juice into clean and sanitized fermenter.. No sulfites or yeast added. Let it do its thing. White spots appear on surface, which upon inspection are conglomerations of very small bubbles, soon transitioning to full active fermentation. Full active fermentation starts 2-5 days after pressing.

This time: Followed my normal procedure (mostly, notes below) for 11.5 gallons, split into 3 carboys. OG 1.056, pH 3.11. 2 days later, nothing happening. Continue waiting and monitoring. Day 4, I stop at home during my lunch break and notice something I have never seen before in my fermentations: Strange white hair-like growths coming out of the surface in a couple spots (picture attached) in one of the carboys. I also notice a couple small white spots that are definitely not the normal conglomerations of small bubbles. At this point, I already know something bad is happening, but it is my lunch break from work, so I don't have time to do anything at that moment. Come home in the evening, inspect, and I find similar hairlike growths and white spots in the other two carboys as well.

Definitively some kind of infection. Damn! Time to see if I can salvage it. Might as well try instead of dumping it right now. If it doesn't work out, then I can dump it later, but if it does work out maybe I'll end up with something interesting.

I've now racked off the salvageable juice with a siphon. I generously avoided the top few inches of liquid in each carboy, for a loss of a bit over 2.5 gallons, leaving me with just under 9 gallons remaining. The juice looks good and smells mostly normal at this point, though I feel like there is a perceptible Sweet, Cloying smell to it, almost like the smell of honey. I then added Sulfites (K-Meta) to hopefully kill any baddies still lurking. Waited 12 hours, pitched with S-05 this morning.

What did I do differently this time compared to previous times? I have identified two main differences: 1) Due to the amount of juice i had, I initially left more head space in the carboys than I normally would. I don't think that is the main issue, but could definitely be a contributing factor. 2) I sanitized my Carboys with sanitizing solution that I had mixed up the night before and had left uncovered overnight. Normally I mix up solution fresh, but I was lazy. I think my laziness was the problem here.

My fingers are crossed. I'll post updates as it progresses. View attachment 653407

You cannot separate the mold from the juice. What you see on the surface is just one part of the mold, the rest of the mold is nicely distributed within the whole liquid. Molds create toxins which stay in the juice, even if the mold would theoretically be removed.

Mold is the only reason I would instantly dump a batch and so should you.
 
That's mold. You should dump it because mold is allergenic and can produce toxins. Sorry :(

Yep, I agree that it is mold. I figure I might as well try to salvage though. It costs me nothing other than time to attempt. I siphoned off the good-looking liquid the same day that growth was noticed, so I am hoping I avoided much in the way of toxins/allergens. I very well may end up dumping it, but I might as well try and see what happens. I will be the primary guineau pig when/if it comes time to taste test.

It was possibly the low pH of the juice that delayed fermentation. Do you have records of pH from previous batches?

Do you wash the apples? That also delays fermentation.

How about temperature? Colder temp increases lag time.

Most of the apples I wild ferment are in the range of 3.2-3.5, this varietal was surprisingly more acidic at 3.1. I have successfully wild fermented this variety in the past though.

I do wash the apples prior to pressing, but that is my normal procedure with all of my previous successful wild ferments.

Temp: I think that might be it right there. We've had a bit of a cold snap lately, so the temp in my Fermentation Cave (aka Garage) has been in the 50-60F range, probably too cold for the wild yeast to take hold and drive out the bad microbes. I think I should have wrapped my carboys with a seedling mat to bring up the temp by 10-15 degrees.
 
talk about the hair of the dog.....i had a ****ed liver from what i assume was fusarium, but love blue cheese and pepperoni, your call....
 
It won't necessarily taste bad even it's it's filled with toxins. Mold toxins are also frequently carcinogenic, so it's still not good even though you may not become acutely ill.

There's no way to "salvage" it.
 
You cannot separate the mold from the juice. What you see on the surface is just one part of the mold, the rest of the mold is nicely distributed within the whole liquid. Molds create toxins which stay in the juice, even if the mold would theoretically be removed.

Mold is the only reason I would instantly dump a batch and so should you.

Yeah, I do realize that. I put the chance that I will end up dumping it at around 80%, but it costs me nothing to see if the salvage attempt is successful. Worst case scenario: taste test day comes, its no good, and I end up taking a sick day from work the following day because it really wasn't good.
 
Yeah, I do realize that. I put the chance that I will end up dumping it at around 80%, but it costs me nothing to see if the salvage attempt is successful. Worst case scenario: taste test day comes, its no good, and I end up taking a sick day from work the following day because it really wasn't good.

cheese maker, and fermenter at heart...i like that...
 
Hmmm, okay. That is definitively making me think twice.

:) nothing a month of healthy eating, and dealing with pain in it for a month didn't solve.....

here's my blood work, and all i had to do is eat my home made granola, and cut back to a 12 pack a day from 18...lol

liver crop.jpg


month later....but damn it did hurt......

liver crop2.jpg


edit: and i was malting on a tub full of red mold for 2.5 years before it got to me...and aflatoxin is black, and flourescent.....yours isn't red, or black.....
 
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lol, "california knows"!
This isn't a joke.
Cancer is the second leading cause of death.

If the OP doesn't care and wants to drink it, that's his choice.
Please don't serve it to anyone else.
aflatoxin is black, and flourescent.....yours isn't red, or black.....
You can't tell whether mold is toxic based on color.
 
I'm definitively thinking about it and taking all suggestions and information into account. I will be very wary, and will be making careful consideration before any actual tasting. There is a good chance that I will end up dumping before tasting.

I have also reached out to Sandor Katz, the Guru of all things fermented (if you haven't read his books, I highly recommend them). I doubt there is a mold in existence that he hasn't seen. Hopefully he responds with some additional information.
 
This is basic food safety. Don't eat rotten or moldy food. It's obviously mold.
I don't see what needs to be considered, unless you just need to go through the stages of grieving for your apples.
 
This isn't a joke.

are you sure?

https://www.morebeer.com/products/malt-muncher-3-roller-grain-mill.html

edit: the only way i see a grain mill causing cancer or 'reproductive' harm, is if you're brewing without pants, and get a little too close to it, with a motor going....


edit 2: just saying a lot of food was invented from stuff like this before pastuer(SP?)....

edit 3: i'm just trying to say it's like walking through the woods, and finding a mushroom, and eating it.....somebody had to at first....and i wish you lived next door, because my life is worthless, and i'd drink it for you, so you'd know for next time....
 
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Yeah, I do realize that. I put the chance that I will end up dumping it at around 80%, but it costs me nothing to see if the salvage attempt is successful. Worst case scenario: taste test day comes, its no good, and I end up taking a sick day from work the following day because it really wasn't good.
You won't be able to taste it if it's bad. It's mold, freaking dump it mate, everything else is just extremely stupid. There is no salvaging moldy liquids.
 
On an unrelated topic I just bought a plate chiller from a Calif. company. Made in China no doubt. Came with a big sticker saying contains lead and it’s gonna kill me! Hmmmm!
 
Sequoiacider: if I may ask, how do you cover your carboys? (airlock/towel/nothing?)

The reason I ask is that I always assumed that a good contact with air should be beneficial to get a good fermentation going.

I'm trying to understand what happened. If this was caused by low temperature, then if the low temp delays fermentation, why wouldn't it also delay the growth of mold?
 
Low temperature does delay mold growth. It's just a matter of which microbe can grow faster. Mold tends to grow faster than yeast as it gets colder, especially in the 40s.
I also mentioned a couple other factors working against the yeast in this case: low pH and low starting cell count from washing.

There will be oxygen in the headspace regardless of how it's covered.
 
Standard three piece airlock. Temps definitely got down into the low 50s/high 40s. Around 15 degrees cooler than typical for this time of year.

Just started a new batch of the same varietal. This time I am using seedling mats to bring up the temp. Hopefully that should remidy the problem.
 
FYI
An Inkbird 308 would allow you to control temp within 1°F. You can get one for around $28-40.
 
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