Extract vs All grain

[Demus]

If I take frozen DiGiorno pizza out of the oven and throw some fresh garlic and grilled chicken on, it will turn out pretty good. Will I be proud of it? Sure, but not as proud as I would have been if I'd made it from scratch.

Couldn't have said it better myself. It's not that there's no pride in an extract brew, there's simply more in all grain. If I had a farm and grew the grain and hops, I imagine there would be even more!

 

[3PegBrew]

Extract is a great place to learn how to care for yeast. If you abuse yeast you can get really crappy beer. If you are getting off flavors in your extract beer, work on learning to care for the yeast first.

After that, brew-in-a-bag (BIAB) is a great next step and is easy and fun. You can do partial or entire mashes with BIAB (if your bag is big enough).

It really is a spectrum. If you're coming out of all-extract, maybe make your next brew something with extract and steeping grains. See what that adds. Get comfortable with calculators for hop additions; the differences between bitttering, flavor, and aroma hops. Gradually up your amount of grain and reduce your amount of extract. You'll learn about mashing along the way.

I'm a partial masher, mostly because I am still practicing and my biggest pot can only take about 7 lbs of grain, so I need some extract to round up the gravity. You can keep incrementing up the grain until the change to all-grain is natural.

It is possible for an excited newbie to go whole-hog and buy an all grain rig and churn out nothing but bad beer. I'd say work your way up in increments, but don't be a snob either. Good beer can be made with extracts and partial mashes; don't shun them because they aren't all grain.

:rockin: The road to greatness has to start somewhere!

 

[Schol-R-LEA]

I will add my two cents' worth by saying this: if you have room for a fermentation chamber, setting that up should be your first priority. The next priority is getting your wort cooled more quickly, preferably with a wort chiller if you can buy or make one. Next after that is ensuring that you are oxygenating the chilled wort sufficiently, whether by shaking the fermentation vessel hard for several minutes, or using an aeration stone, or some other method, so long as the yeast have plenty of oxygen to work with when the start reproducing. Next is setting yourself up to make yeast starters, with a stir plate and flasks, at least if you are using liquid yeast cultures. Only once you've got those things in place and have done several AE and partial mash batches should you look to all-grain.

I should know; I went in practically the reverse order, and have had to learn from those mistakes. I still need to set up a decent fermentation chamber, in fact. But if you start with the FC, you will be in a better position than 99% of homebrewers when they move to AG.

 

[skw]

If you look around, you may find that you already have the equipment for a 1 gallon BIAB in your house. I used a 5L pot, the kitchen stove and a laundry mesh bag and did three small BIABs, then went back to extract for one more batch. Now I got a 5 gallon AG setup, as I noticed that the differences that I got in the beers (extract beers taste much drier to me) make my taste buds prefer AG.

You may find that it's the opposite for you, who knows? I would suggest to try a small batch if you can, it costs you next to nothing in equipment and you can always go back if it's not your thing.

 

[3PegBrew]

I started with extract because it was simple and required half the work.

Then I moved to all grain, and never looked back.

If I feel lazy, I'll do a BIAB because it's still fun and so simple.

But the real reason for switching was because All Grain seemed more fun, the ingredients were cheaper AND it was a lot of fun building stuff.

 

[HBngNOK]

As often mentioned, so many things in home brewing are neither right nor wrong. Many decisions are based on what strokes the personal satisfaction of the individual. The discord begins when someone, through eloquence of argument, attempts to convince others that "MY way is the only way, and any other way is dumb and/or wrong.", which often comes across as condescending.

For me, biscuits are a good example. The biscuits I make with Bis-Quick taste as good as the ones I make from scratch. But the ones I make from scratch stroke my personal satisfaction, so that's the way I go. So if I'm in your house and you offer me a biscuit, and it tastes good, I don't care where it came from !

All grain gives me the same satisfaction. (and that's my testimony )

 

[DrWill]

For me, biscuits are a good example. The biscuits I make with Bis-Quick taste as good as the ones I make from scratch.

Bis-quick? BIS-QUICK? What sort of twisted perversions are you trying to spread here? Clearly you are not only wrong, but morally degenerate. You are a threat to brewers and small children alike. Better to isolate you someplace where you can do no further damage and scientists can dissect your brain to find out just what went wrong so that we can spare future generations similar indignity. Bis-quick indeed. Have you no shame, man??!

Ahem. Sorry. You're totally right.

 

[Grippe]

Not that it matters but what I recommend to new brewers is:

1. Learn & get comfortable with how beer is made - start simple with Mr. Beer or Extract on stove
2. Take the next step to improve the quality control of your beer by embracing yeast health - proper pitching rates through starters, etc
3. Ratchet up your quality again by investing in fermentation temperature controls
4. Master homebrewing by going all grain (including BIAB), never fearing to brew extract or partials when you feel like it

 

[Transamguy77]

Here's my 2 cents.

I started with extract.....Mr. Beer extract, and I thought what I made was better than what I was drinking at the time. I quickly moved to extract with steeping grains and made probably 10 batches and they all turned out pretty good and I had fun making them. As I was doing more research on AG I found that the cost was significantly cheaper per batch, I purchased a turkey fryer with a 7.5 gallon pot and bought a pack of paint strainer bags and was making AG beer with the BIAB method. And as far as time goes everyone said extract was faster, for me it was the same time for a 5 gallon batch, 3.5 hours. For me price was really the driving factor to move to AG and after I made some of my extract batches with AG and I could really taste the difference between each way I was glad I made the move. I now have a 3 tier converted keg system and make 10 gallon batches and I can't be happier with the beers I make.

 

[Thunder_Chicken]

--- edit ---
If you also start threads on bottling vs kegging, carboys vs. brightly colored buckets, and dry vs liquid yeasts, you will have covered most of the flame wars. Oh, and how large a kettle and burner. Those'll go up like California in a drought.

Nice edit. I still bottle just to keep the keggers agitated.

 

[BrewerinBR]

with all grain brewing I can choose to brew what I want... in a manner that I want to.
If I want to use toasted oatmeal or raw rice in a cereal mash I can. I can make beer taste the way I think it should it taste. I can find exotic wild grains and use them to make wonderful delicious radical brews.... I can step mash or do a decoction or combine the techniques. I can purchase fresh grain in bulk and plan my brews in advance or change the grain on a whim and the rye I found and malted in the forest field.

So yes there is a difference... both processes can make great beer and both can make some not so good.

Depends on you, what you want and what you like .... take it as far as you like!!!
just ENJOY!

 

[Bobby_M]

Oh, neat, this thread again. Just kidding, I don't think anyone has debated this before.

 

[Thunder_Chicken]

Bis-quick? BIS-QUICK? What sort of twisted perversions are you trying to spread here? Clearly you are not only wrong, but morally degenerate. You are a threat to brewers and small children alike. Better to isolate you someplace where you can do no further damage and scientists can dissect your brain to find out just what went wrong so that we can spare future generations similar indignity. Bis-quick indeed. Have you no shame, man??

Mmmmm...Bis-quick pancakes are life savers after an all-nighter basement beer and music jam session. I guess I am morally degenerate.

Ahem. Sorry. You're totally right.

That's better. Can you pass the margarine and Aunt Jemima? Thanks...

 

[boydster]

Extract is like getting a burger from Mcdonalds and adding your own cheese. All-grain is like raising your own cow, using the milk to make your own cheese, then butchering the cow with hand-made tools and grinding the meat with just your hands and deeply ingrained anger for the burger, and making the buns with wheat that you genetically modified in your own basement lab.

Yeah. I believe that. I'm going to go make a burger in 3 years.

Ok seriously, this is a tireless debate that always ends with "do what works best for you." Sometimes I buy pumpkin pie instead of making it. Sometimes I want to make my croissants from scratch even though it takes longer than making the stuff in the cardboard tubes. Sometimes I make beer with grains, other times I like using DME. Almond Joys got nuts, Mounds don't.

Control vs speed and simplicity. There are times when each is more preferable than the other. Except Mounds are always better than Almond Joys. Duh.

 

[3PegBrew]

Pancakes sound good right now.

 

[Demus]

If you don't like the debate why reply to a thread titled "extract vs all grain"?

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Brewing my first AG Wednesday.
My reason for AG is I want to eventually design and make my own brew from scratch. Brewing the extracts for the past 8 months gave me the chance to hone my processes and learn-learn-learn.
Same with AG...I will brew at least 10 AG recipes from NB before I attempt to design a beer. So much to learn...and drink.

 

[RM-MN]

Brewing my first AG Wednesday.
My reason for AG is I want to eventually design and make my own brew from scratch. Brewing the extracts for the past 8 months gave me the chance to hone my processes and learn-learn-learn.
Same with AG...I will brew at least 10 AG recipes from NB before I attempt to design a beer. So much to learn...and drink.

Why so many kits? There are plenty of recipes in the database here on Homebrewtalk and lots of ways to modify one of those to make it your own. I start with a recipe that looks good and then when I look at my grain supply or hops I find that I don't have quite all the right ingredients so I substitute what looks like it should be similar. I'm not designing a beer from scratch but that change or changes makes the beer different from what was intended so it is "my" recipe.

 

[WileECoyote]

Cost and control are the biggest differences that I've noticed. Cost of initial investment is quickly made up by the lower cost per batch.

This ^^^^^^^

Be a controle freak, go AG. $12 to $18 a 5 gal batch excluding equipment cost is really nice for a quality craft beer.

Cheers

 

[DrWill]

This ^^^^^^^

Be a controle freak, go AG. $12 to $18 a 5 gal batch excluding equipment cost is really nice for a quality craft beer.

Cheers

I'm all about being a control freak. You can tell by looking at what an ass I am on the forums.

 

[Demus]

Everyone gets into brewing for different reasons. The common variable is the love of beer. Like most endeavors, there's a learning curve involved. Brewing is kind of a cooking hobby, where a consumable product is produced. You can advance on many different levels. Equipment and techniques can grow more complex, and your skills using them can improve. The end result is what we're all after, quality brew. It's not about which technique is best, it's about how you can achieve your desired goal. Some brews require more skills and techniques, some don't. I also like to cook. When I was 10 I could make PB&J and grilled cheese. Now a days folks rave about my cedar plank salmon, but I still bust out a grilled cheese now and then, and still enjoy it.

Why am I rattling on? Cause I LOVE BEER!!! I think we will all agree that we improve and advance over time. All grain isn't "better", it's a more advanced way of making beer from more raw ingredients. It gives you more control, but increases the opportunity for errors. It gives you more potential as a brewer, but doesn't guarantee success. One thing is for certain, people who continue to advance and improve get better at things, people who stick with one way generally don't excel...

 

[VikingChrisColby]

I think the main difference is the convenience of malt extract vs. the control of brewing from malted grains. Also, all-grain offers more flexibility because there are more types of malted base grains than there are light or pale malt extracts made from them. In addition, you can use starchy adjuncts.

I elaborate a bit, here:

http://beerandwinejournal.com/go-all-grain/


Chris Colby
Editor
beerandwinejournal.com

 

[iamwhatiseem]

Why so many kits? There are plenty of recipes in the database here on Homebrewtalk and lots of ways to modify one of those to make it your own. I start with a recipe that looks good and then when I look at my grain supply or hops I find that I don't have quite all the right ingredients so I substitute what looks like it should be similar. I'm not designing a beer from scratch but that change or changes makes the beer different from what was intended so it is "my" recipe.

Oh I will definitely alter recipes sooner than 10 as I did with extracts.
What I meant was design a beer from thin air. Just something I want to do...I have this IPA in my head that has key limes added to it....sounds like it should work.

 

[skw]

Not that it matters but what I recommend to new brewers is:

1. Learn & get comfortable with how beer is made - start simple with Mr. Beer or Extract on stove
2. Take the next step to improve the quality control of your beer by embracing yeast health - proper pitching rates through starters, etc
3. Ratchet up your quality again by investing in fermentation temperature controls
4. Master homebrewing by going all grain (including BIAB), never fearing to brew extract or partials when you feel like it

I fully agree. First learn how to make yeast happy, then go AG. You don't want to invest in equipment, do a 6 hour brew day only to end up with 6gallons of horrible brew that was under pitched and fermented far too hot.