Existential Crisis About Lagers

[marc1]

I think those who dismiss the complexity of lagering as "just" temperature control are overlooking the effort required in maintaining lower fermentation and long-term storage temperatures. I for one am not in a position to buy a glycol chiller, nor do I want to be adding ice to a cooler full of recirculated water for two-to-four weeks at a time. That's effort, and one of the things that turns people off about homebrewing is the amount of effort it takes to get a beer from grain to bottle/keg.

On OP's existential crisis at hand, I think Wyeast 2112 is about as close to a portal between lagers and ales as we're going to find. Find a combination of grains and hops that you like, then buy it, use it, drink the results and be happy.

Or you can buy the chillers/coolers/pumps/freezers/temperature controllers/carboys/racking canes/siphon pumps/etc. and have at it like the braumeisters* of old (who, ironically, waited for the right weather to chill the caves/cellars to the right temperatures and let nature do all the work for them).

That's the beauty of homebrewing... whether you're a kit assembler, extract explorer, all-grain growler guzzler or a hop monster manufacturer, there's something out there you'll like and can brew with the level of effort you can afford and/or are comfortable expending.

* I use this term generically, not intending to ignore or diminish those of the female persuasion who happen to participate and partake in the craft

I completely agree that brewing process should be tailored to your preferences! That's what it is all about.

Glycol chillers and coolers of ice are pricy or work intensive methods of temp control. A freebie beater fridge, an inkbird, and a heat belt gives high ease of use with low cost. Not everyone has the room for this, and I'm sure some people don't like the appearance of beater fridges. Ours has been handy to also store extra food sometimes. But there are relatively easy and inexpensive ways to do it.

 

[bwible]

I regularly make “pseudo lagers” by following basically a lager recipe (pilsener malt and a little light munich, Tettnang, Hersbrucker, Saaz) but fermenting with an ale yeast. Cold crash when fermentation is complete. I’ve also found that adding gelatin at the end of fermentation along with the cold crash makes a huge difference in clarity. Age cold in a keg for a couple weeks. The last one I did with 1098. I think 1098 makes a decent blonde ale. I tend to split whatever yeast I’m using for other beers, within reason.

The resulting beer is lager-like and I sure enjoy drinking it. But I still call this a blonde ale and I have no delusions about fooling anybody into thinking this is some kind of award winning lager. I would by no means put something brewed this way up against any German Lager. Or even any of the big commercial US lagers many love to hate. Not the same.

I’d love to make “real” lager, but I don’t have a fermentation chamber with any kind of temp control to get to 50-55 degrees for lagers. And I already have a kegerator and a commercial beer fridge loaded with bottles. Can’t imagine the wife would be crazy about me buying and running another fridge for beer. I have thought about that angle of trying to get a chest freezer and playing it as extra storage. Our freezer is always full. But I can’t sell it as extra freezer storage when its 50 degrees.

I’ve never used kviek yeast. Don’t know the first thing about it. I remember as a newbie brewer way back when trying the steam beer yeast to make something like lager. But then you just get steam beer.

 

[VikeMan]

Lager yeast ferment maltotriose, ale yeast doesn't or at least it does it at a much slower rate. I don't think you can get a complete lager character with ale yeast, it's more complex than that.

There are very few ale strains that don't use maltotriose. The overwhelming majority use maltotriose in varying amounts, just like lager strains do. The relative use of matotriose is normally the factor that drives different attenuation for different yeast strains. There are some ale strains that attenuate more than the average lager strain, and vice versa.

 

[couchsending]

Saccharomyces pastorianus has the ability to ferment melibiose.. S. Cerevisiae doesn’t. It’s been determined recently that certain “lager“ strains are actually Cerevisiae however.

Brewed lots of lager and kolsch. You can’t replicate true lager character with ale yeast at ale temps. I’ve fermented a few ale yeast at 54-56 for some Kolschs and the beers, while squeaky clean, still don’t possess true lager characteristics. Personally not a fan of lots of sulphur in my lagers. I used some variant of the Andech’s yeast for the entirety of 2020 for that reason.

 

[OldDogBrewing]

Yes, I have. Both commercial and home brewed. I was unimpressed.

I replicate the same techniques (single or double decoction) and cold condition so maybe that makes my brews feel more "real" to me taste.

I find that most german lagers have a kind of banana grainy note, like banana covered granola, and through the decoction and the use of Skare, most of my brews end up with this note too and with the same body as a lager, they don't look as clear and never would because Skare has a low flocc strain in it so it'd need too much time and I only have cold space for one fermenter at a time so that's a no no for me.

If I ever have the space to brew the real deal I will obviously do so, but for now, what I achieve has made me stop buying german lagers for now

 

[Dland]

Just to add in;

I made a Pilsner malt SMASH this summer w Cascade & US-05, fermented at 65F. I crashed and let it rest at 30F for a few weeks. It was a darn good beer and all 10 gallons are long gone.

Made the same brew this fall w 34/70 at 54F crashed and let to lager at 30F for 4 weeks, it is so good (I still marvel how good my lagers sometimes come out) I hold it to the light, see it sparkling clear and say: "'darn' this is good."

I like almost all well made beer, but a good lager is sometimes hard to find. Glad I can make it.

 

[moreb33rplz]

Every other beer I make is a pale lager. I also make cream ales from time to time using a clean yeast, low ish fermentation temps, and extended cold storage before I drink it. Both good, but a surprising amount different. I'd definitely pick the lagers as my favorite.

 

[McKnuckle]

I wonder how our OP is doing standing at his crossroads. Has the existential crisis been resolved yet?

It appears that consensus has it that true lagers are alive and well, and are uniquely different from alternate approaches that approximate, but never quite duplicate, their essence.

As it should be.

 

[schmurf]

Sort of entertaining thread about lager vs ale... sort of sad too, never cease to amaze me how rude people can get on the web. What is a Kolsch Style

Ron Pattinson trying to explain what a lager is.

 

[Brewsit]

I’ve been sitting in the shadows watching this develop... didn’t want to get in the way

I like a lot of the points that have been made... that there’s something special achieved by using the right strain for the right beer... I have a Munich Helles lagering right now that I pulled a sample of the other day... still cloudy but has just amazing body and flavor. I don’t know that I could get the same from using the “wrong” yeast.

I think the best way to describe it would be multi-dimensional vs 1 dimensional...