Excessive sulfur (H2S) production during Hefeweizen fermentation with W68 (WY3068/WLP300/OYL-21) that lingers

[dmtaylor]

Supposedly WLP380 is the actual W-68 strain per suregork but I am nearly certain it is not, because I have brewed with it more than once and the ester profile is highly restrained compared to the dry W-68, OYL-021, WLP300, or WY3068. In fact I have a packet of WLP380 I intend to use in either a dunkelweizen or weizenbock soon because it's a fantastic strain for those styles.

The different "W-68"'s won't be 100% identical-identical between brands... but pretty dang effing close. Differences might have something to do with the drying process for the Fermentis W-68 (or Lal Munich Classic, for that matter), or another thing is pitch rate, and viability -- you know dry yeast is more viable on average than any liquid yeast that's been sitting around for more than a month or two. And unless you're looking under the microscope and counting out healthy yeast cells one by one... you still don't really know how healthy your yeast is or what the true cell count is. At least with dry yeast you know you're consistently getting about 150-200B cells per pack, dried at their peak of happiness, which is super consistent and reliable, assuming the pack wasn't cooked in the hot sun or whatever at any time in transit. With liquid yeast... who the hell knows where it's been or why it's crabby or not.

 

[Jocky]

Supposedly WLP380 is the actual W-68 strain per suregork but I am nearly certain it is not, because I have brewed with it more than once and the ester profile is highly restrained compared to the dry W-68, OYL-021, WLP300, or WY3068. In fact I have a packet of WLP380 I intend to use in either a dunkelweizen or weizenbock soon because it's a fantastic strain for those styles.

I agree on that.

WLP300 and Munich Classic are much more alike in that they don’t produce much sulphur but they do produce quite a bit of acidity. WLP380 doesn’t produce acidity from the times I’ve used it.

I note that the description for G01 Stefon say it also produces quite a lot of acidity.

 

[VTMongoose]

G01 is what a head brewer buddy of mine at a brewery up my old way in NJ uses but I don't remember his being very acidic, in fact I remember his was pretty similar to mine, just the banana was weaker and the sulfur was worse because he's using cylindroconicals which add a lot of hydrostatic pressure.

I think the acidity people usually get with hefeweizen, a lot of it comes from using red instead of white wheat having brewed with both a bunch - the red wheat, at least the Avangard I used, really has a twang to it (a lot like rye which is even "worse" in terms of imparting acidity - actually on the breadmaking side of things, rye is a weapon for this very reason). The other thing is people are probably adding too much lactic acid - you barely need any in the mash on this style (if any) because the yeast is going to drop the pH a lot more than other ale strains. Acidity I definitely consider to be a flaw when it's above a certain level in this style even though it's pretty normal for it to be there - eg Paulaner definitely has it and they sell tons of the stuff.

Edit: Side note here's some eye candy, this one's 57% white wheat, 26% Weyermann Light Munich, 16% Weyermann Pils. All I can say is, the keg's almost gone. It is annoying having to shake it every other day or so honestly but whatever.

 

[Jocky]

I think the acidity people usually get with hefeweizen, a lot of it comes from using red instead of white wheat having brewed with both a bunch - the red wheat, at least the Avangard I used, really has a twang to it (a lot like rye which is even "worse" in terms of imparting acidity - actually on the breadmaking side of things, rye is a weapon for this very reason). The other thing is people are probably adding too much lactic acid - you barely need any in the mash on this style (if any) because the yeast is going to drop the pH a lot more than other ale strains. Acidity I definitely consider to be a flaw when it's above a certain level in this style even though it's pretty normal for it to be there - eg Paulaner definitely has it and they sell tons of the stuff.

The acidity I've had I can only describe as a 'tangy' finish to the beer. I occasionally recognise it in other brewers beers where I assume they've used too much lactic acid to combat the high alkalinity in London water.

A recent beer I had this finish in was actually a roggenbier that was made with 40% malted rye, RO water with half a teaspoon of 80% lactic acid in the mash (for 6 gallon batch) and munich classic yeast. Smelt great, but had a tangy/tart finish.

I’d been thinking that I’d do a future iteration with much higher alkalinity in the mash water, and then I also found that this article says that "Generally, residual alkalinities up to 10°dH are of no concern". My home water is about 13°dH/230ppm CaCO3, so blending it 50:50 with RO and using that straight seems like a good next trial.

 

[VTMongoose]

A recent beer I had this finish in was actually a roggenbier that was made with 40% malted rye, RO water with half a teaspoon of 80% lactic acid in the mash (for 6 gallon batch) and munich classic yeast. Smelt great, but had a tangy/tart finish.

I know exactly what you mean and straight up I can tell you the twang is from the rye. Basically at one point I brewed a hefeweizen where I replaced all the malted wheat with pale malted rye and everyone blind tasting it guessed it was from overacidification of the mash when I hadn't added any acid at all. That was a super fun brew. Other than that it tasted and smelled exactly like a hefeweizen, just really tangy.

 

[mashdar]

I'm about to keg a 3.2% ABV 3 week old OYL-021 hefe. I noticed some sulphur today that I hadn't a few days ago. I think I like it? Blends in with the fresh malt flavor. I might miss it when it fades.

 

[odie]

I do hefe's in a bucket or conical fermenter for about a week. Then I transfer to a keg and let it finish under pressure. would that retain "sulfur" or would it just vent out the spunding valve?

 

[Jocky]

I know exactly what you mean and straight up I can tell you the twang is from the rye. Basically at one point I brewed a hefeweizen where I replaced all the malted wheat with pale malted rye and everyone blind tasting it guessed it was from overacidification of the mash when I hadn't added any acid at all. That was a super fun brew. Other than that it tasted and smelled exactly like a hefeweizen, just really tangy.

The thing is I’ve had the same twang just using Weyermann pale wheat malt in the past too.

Need to review my brewing notes to see if there’s a pattern.

 

[VTMongoose]

I'm about to keg a 3.2% ABV 3 week old OYL-021 hefe. I noticed some sulphur today that I hadn't a few days ago. I think I like it? Blends in with the fresh malt flavor. I might miss it when it fades.

All beer made with Hefeweizen yeast will have this. I'll never forget the day I opened a bottle of one of my favorite wheat beers, Weihenstephaner Vitus, and it was a particularly sulfury batch (which in case you can't tell by the thread, I hate), and I took one whiff and literally said "damn it" out loud because here I thought they had some magical process by which they were able to condition it out or prevent it from being produced in the first place (it's rare for their standard strength hefe to have a lot of it).

I do hefe's in a bucket or conical fermenter for about a week. Then I transfer to a keg and let it finish under pressure. would that retain "sulfur" or would it just vent out the spunding valve?

Most of the sulfur should have been produced earlier in fermentation. You could try both. 1-2°P from final gravity you could rack half of it into a keg and leave the rest another week to let it finish and then keg it and see if there is a difference.

 

[Jocky]

After 4 days with the fermenter lid open the WLP380 has dropped the gravity from 1.048 to 1.012. I've just closed up the fermenter and added an airlock before the fermentation completely stops.

It's still sulphury but I'm determined to wait for that to dissipate before I keg.

 

[Jocky]

16 days after brew day and almost all sulphur has gone.

I’ve just left the beer in the fermenter with an airlock.

Will keg before the weekend as I’d like to free up my fermenter for a brew this weekend.

 

[dmtaylor]

 

[VTMongoose]

Update: I tapped my latest Hefeweizen last night. Brewfather batch record link here.

I had to let this one primary for a full three weeks due to time constraints. The little sulfur I had with previous batches is completely gone on this batch. One confounding factor is I did use a stepped fermentation temperature regimen vs isothermal on the previous batches.

So basically if anyone is having issues with sulfur in their hefeweizens, I would advise the following:

1. Pitch ~1.0 grams of Fermentis W-68 per gallon of beer.
2. Use 1/2 tsp of Wyeast yeast nutrient 10-15 minutes prior to flameout per 5 gallon batch.
3. Once you have passed high krausen, switch from a blowoff tube to an airlock. This is critical to keep headspace pressure as low as possible.
4. Leave the beer in primary for at least two full weeks. Three may be better.

Tasting notes on this batch:

-Way more clove-forward than previous batches, no surprise there. Tastes quite a bit more like Franziskaner, for example, than Weihenstephan. The banana is still there but much lower.
-Epiphany Craft Malt's wheat malt is a red wheat malt. This batch has that characteristic twang to it, but it is subtle and actually quite nice, compared to prior batches using Avangard's red wheat, which was too acidic/citrusey for me. I want to maintain this aspect of this beer, so next iteration I will cut the Epiphany wheat 50/50 or 60/40 with Briess White Wheat. The mouthfeel is still soft, I just want it a touch softer.
-The Epiphany malts definitely bring more character to the table for lack of better words. The beer is doughier.
-The yeast character like prior iterations (both clove and banana) is very significant, almost too much. I think the freshness is probably "to blame" for this. But the 2nd previous version of this that was very similar but more banana-forward brought home a gold medal in a comp this past weekend so what do I know.
-Use of the whole cone Tettnang hops added a faint but very nice hop character to the beer and the bitterness balances the perceived sweetness well. I think a very small dry hop of Cascade on top of a slightly bigger version of this beer would make a very nice Schneider Edel-Weisse clone.
-The glass pictured above was empty within 10 minutes of taking that photograph. The drinkability is, I think, the best I have ever achieved. It is truly a flawless beer IMO now that the sulfur is completely gone to my nose.
-This is the 24th Weissbier I have brewed in the past 22 months. This is a truly hard style to nail down.