Excess bitterness from raspberries?

[primerib]

Hi all, I had asked the same question in a different thread but it might have gotten lost in my post, thought for sure somebody might have some experience or opinions on this so I’ll try once more.

Have seen many methods but think I have a basic plan in place. Started a cider on Friday with 5 gallons storebought juice + 5 cans frozen apple/raspberry concentrate and EC1118, SG was 1.060.

Once primary fermentation finishes up I’m planning to rack on top of 5 lbs of thawed, frozen raspberries in the secondary, let the berries steep and finish fermenting for a week or so, then rack off berries into another carboy to clear out a bit before bottling.

My concern is that I’ve seen some anecdotal reports of the raspberries (or their seeds) giving an overly bitter quality to the cider (if left too long). I was really after the raspberry notes but thinking of changing the plan to a mix of frozen berries (raspberries, blackberries, blueberries, strawberries, that sort of thing) as that seems to be more tried and proven. Would appreciate any anecdotes or ideas you have, thanks so much!

 

[MarkKF]

Two things here. 1. If you primary on fruit and leave it too long the seeds can make it taste bitter. 2. If you ferment berries bone dry it tastes bitter.

 

[primerib]

Two things here. 1. If you primary on fruit and leave it too long the seeds can make it taste bitter. 2. If you ferment berries bone dry it tastes bitter.

Thanks, yes, the cider is fermenting on its own in primary right now, I’m planning on adding the berries only during secondary and I will ferment it until the EC1118 has done its thing, which as I understand will be bone dry, but do plan to sweeten it up at the end. I was just curious if there’s a specific maximum length of time I dare leave the cider in with the berries. My thought was rack to secondary with berries one weekend, and get if off the berries likely the next weekend (into another carboy to clear out a bit for weeks/months/however long it takes).

 

[primerib]

Or perhaps I’m missing the point/timing of the berry addition - is it more common to bottle straight from the secondary before the berries have finished fermenting? Man, so many options, it seems like every batch is an evolving plan...

 

[MarkKF]

Sorry. Don’t have an answer for that.

 

[Maylar]

Here's a blog from the past that might give you some ideas:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/berry-cider-halfway-done.501398/

 

[primerib]

Here's a blog from the past that might give you some ideas:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/berry-cider-halfway-done.501398/

Beautiful! Just what I need to steer me in the right direction. Thanks. For all my searching of the forum I never saw that one. Really appreciate it.

 

[GeneDaniels1963]

One way to keep the bitterness out is to mash and juice the berries. you don't get quite as good of a yield, but it is an easy way to add to cider. Lots of berry taste, no bitterness.

 

[MarkKF]

Sorry, wrong thread...

 

[primerib]

Well, racked to a secondary on top of about 5 lbs of mixed berries, I’ll let the berries sit for a week or two then rack to another carboy to try to get it to clear out a bit for a few more weeks before bottling, right now it looks like Hawaiian Punch! Will be interesting to see what the end result is. Not terribly concerned with cloudiness but right now it’s completely opaque, I suppose due to the yeast still being pretty active.

 

[Blacksmith1]

Don't know if it's going to work but it sure looks tasty

 

[primerib]

Well the project is still underway and looking good. Went with the mixed berries. As others before me have done, 5 lbs thawed (previously frozen) mixed berries went straight into secondary (widemouth carboy) then racked the cider on top of it. Let them work their magic for about 9 days then re-racked. The cider is a beatiful purple. Had a taste and it’s quite good. Now begins the head scratching...not sure if I’m planning to leave it dry, sweeten it, and still or carbed.

The stovetop pasteurization method worked quite well for me last time (1st batch) but the hardest part is babysitting those bottles and monitoring carbonation, being busy with grad school and very early mornings, it’s difficult to find a night when I know I’ll be free to pasteurize for an extra hour or two. Admittedly I undercarbed my last batch a bit for fear of explosions. Getting excited though.

 

[CKuhns]

Well, racked to a secondary on top of about 5 lbs of mixed berries, I’ll let the berries sit for a week or two then rack to another carboy to try to get it to clear out a bit for a few more weeks before bottling, right now it looks like Hawaiian Punch! Will be interesting to see what the end result is. Not terribly concerned with cloudiness but right now it’s completely opaque, I suppose due to the yeast still being pretty active.

I think your on the right track. I have done frozen, thawed whole strawberries, raspberries and blackberries in secondary and setled on no more than 5 to 7 days.
Cider before berry addition was between 1.004 and 1.008.

In this case 5 gallon batches and no more than 5 pounds. But flavor is subjective and more berries a little longer will impart more flavor. IMO berries will pretty much give up all their flavor in 12 to 14 days and small seed berries strawberries specifcally have added some astringent flavors i dont care for when more than a few weeks. No issues with blackberries or raspberries. I think the seeds are a litle more protected in the flesh of the fruitand allows for some aditional time.

 

[primerib]

Well gang, it tastes like very cheap red wine, definitely reminds me of Carlo Rossi! Not exactly the intended result, but I realize I was getting a little ambitious bulking up the alcohol content up front with the extra FAJC. Not sad about it, i’ll chalk it up to a learning experience and forget about it in the basement for a few months and see how it tastes later. If I attempt a berry cider again, probably will leave it be at whatever the OG of the juice is.

Got cocky after my first batch turned out ok and over complicated this one!

 

[CKuhns]

You may be pleasantly surprised after a few months. We all have had a few (more than a few in my case) turn out less than stellar. However, some do come along nicely after a bit.

 

[primerib]

Update: A month and a half later, it really isn't half bad. Not my favorite, but might be refreshing this summer. If all else fails, I'll make sangria out of it!