Philly Sour Raspberry Sour

[thebigtone]

Recipe Type

All Grain

Yeast

Lallemand Philly Sour x2 packets

Yeast Starter

n/a

Batch Size (Gallons)

5

Original Gravity

1.044

Final Gravity

1.006

Boiling Time (Minutes)

30

Hi all, I just brewed a raspberry sour with Lallemand Philly sour and it turned out extremely well, so I figured I would share the recipe. One thing I did differently this time was to use dried raspberries, specifically Jungle Powders Raspberry Powder, which was WAY easier than dealing with fresh or frozen raspberries and it worked out perfectly. The idea came from someone else I saw in a forum post once, can't find the original post but let me know if it was you and I'm happy to give you a shout out for the original idea.

The OG was a little lower than I expected, but I don't mind considering I was going for something a little more refreshing and crushable. I recommend using the oldest hops you have on hand, doesn't make as much difference in this one and might add to the funk. Typical Philly Sour yeast fermentation here with a day of zero airlock activity (lactic acid production), then picks up the pace. I add the dehydrated raspberry after 5 days and it picked back up yet again, left for another two weeks.

See below for pic and recipe, enjoy!

BIAB
4 lbs Rahr North Star Pils
1 lbs Vienna
2 lbs Torrefied Wheat
2 lbs Flaked Wheat
4 oz. Acidulated Malt
2 oz. Special B
1 lb Corn Sugar (10 mins left in boil)

RO water adjusted to 57 ppm Chloride and 113 ppm Sulfate.

50 min mash at 152 deg

30 minute total boil time
Hops: Crystal 1.15 oz x 30 min boil
Corn sugar added x 10 mins
Whirlflock tab at 5 mins

2x Philly Sour yeast

Ferment 5 days at 70 degrees, then add 3.5 oz Dried Raspberry Powder (full bag, equals 28 oz. raspberried). Ferment additional 2 weeks.

 

[thebigtone]

Forgot the pic:

 

[beren]

Isn't Torrefied Wheat and Flaked Wheat about the same thing? Looks great though! I wanna brew a Berry Monkey clone but this looks good.

 

[thebigtone]

Isn't Torrefied Wheat and Flaked Wheat about the same thing? Looks great though! I wanna brew a Berry Monkey clone but this looks good.

Yes, pretty much the same, but it was more about what I had on hand. That was the last of my torrified so I switched to flaked. Could be one or the other really.

 

[BrewBoyd]

I just made a similar beer as part of a group brew day, 10 people, 50 gallons, at a brewpub and supply store. I bought the Philly Sour yeast pack at the store, took it home with my wort and discovered as I was pitching it that the yeast expired in August 2022! Having little choice I pitched it anyway. There was no noticeable activity for 5 days(!), then very slow activity for the next 3 weeks. I opened my pail today, found that something (probably the expired yeast or yeast in the air) had made a mildly sour tasting beer (FG = 1.010) and so I added the Jungle Powders Raspberry Powder.

So the saga of the expired yeast, above, is just a tangent. My question is, how did you add the raspberry powder? I poured mine directly into the beer without using a mesh bag. Most of it sat on top and I had to stir it to get it to dissolve, probably introducing a lot of oxygen. I also dry hopped using a mesh bag, but I wonder if I should have put the raspberry powder in the bag too.

[Saga continued - During the month of fermentation I bought another Philly Sour packet from another source. That packet expires in December 2025 so I figure the yeast I used was actually about 3 years old.]

 

[thebigtone]

I just made a similar beer as part of a group brew day, 10 people, 50 gallons, at a brewpub and supply store. I bought the Philly Sour yeast pack at the store, took it home with my wort and discovered as I was pitching it that the yeast expired in August 2022! Having little choice I pitched it anyway. There was no noticeable activity for 5 days(!), then very slow activity for the next 3 weeks. I opened my pail today, found that something (probably the expired yeast or yeast in the air) had made a mildly sour tasting beer (FG = 1.010) and so I added the Jungle Powders Raspberry Powder.

So the saga of the expired yeast, above, is just a tangent. My question is, how did you add the raspberry powder? I poured mine directly into the beer without using a mesh bag. Most of it sat on top and I had to stir it to get it to dissolve, probably introducing a lot of oxygen. I also dry hopped using a mesh bag, but I wonder if I should have put the raspberry powder in the bag too.

[Saga continued - During the month of fermentation I bought another Philly Sour packet from another source. That packet expires in December 2025 so I figure the yeast I used was actually about 3 years old.]

I just poured the powder on top. I don’t think it would work to place in a bag, it is pretty fine powder. It will float at first, but will eventually saturate and fall into the wort, no need to stir. Plus the yeast should still be alive and the sugar in the raspberry will re-start fermentation, which will stir it up naturally over the next day or two.

 

[Hop Dungeon]

Thanks for this. I just did a lemon saison with Philly Sour, and was trying to think of what to try next. These powders look really easy to use, and there'd be no need to worry about infections.

There's other flavors on amazon too. If I make one, I'll have to report back.

 

[thebigtone]

Thanks for this. I just did a lemon saison with Philly Sour, and was trying to think of what to try next. These powders look really easy to use, and there'd be no need to worry about infections.

There's other flavors on amazon too. If I make one, I'll have to report back.

View attachment 825536

Amazing, they must be expanding their selection. I will have to try a few other flavors!

 

[suprchunk]

Wow! That is a lot of flavoring in powder form. I haven't been keeping up with adjuncts that much, and am surprised by how many are out now.

Thanks for the post.

 

[Bobby_M]

I've made a very close recipe to this and honestly I'm not that impressed with the raspberry powder. I used 8 ounces. It's red and has a bit of flavor, but it definitely doesn't taste like it was fermented on fresh fruit. I think I spent $25 on the powder and would likely try using either puree, concentrate or whole frozen fruit next time.

 

[suprchunk]

That is sad to hear. I usually use the Knudsens or Oregon, and guess I'll stick with those.

Did you find that it just had an "off" flavor, or that it just wasn't indicative of the fruit it is supposed to be?

I've had some flavorings in the past that just didn't taste good to me, and will assume this is the same sort of thing.

I've not had you steer me wrong yet! And at that price do not want to chance it.

 

[Bobby_M]

That is sad to hear. I usually use the Knudsens or Oregon, and guess I'll stick with those.

Did you find that it just had an "off" flavor, or that it just wasn't indicative of the fruit it is supposed to be?

I've had some flavorings in the past that just didn't taste good to me, and will assume this is the same sort of thing.

I've not had you steer me wrong yet! And at that price do not want to chance it.

Not an off flavor, just muted. By the way, that was 8oz of raspberry powder (purported to be the same as 64oz of fresh fruit) in a 2.75 gallon batch. The other half of the batch got 4 LBs of mango puree and that one tastes very much like fresh mango.

I've had great experiences using Fast Fruit Raspberry Concentrate (pure concentrate, no added fructose or other sugars) before. Unfortunately the price is something like $100 for 32 ounces. No thanks. I think I'm going to try 5 pounds of Walmart frozen raspberries for $20.

 

[agentbud]

...The other half of the batch got 4 LBs of mango puree and that one tastes very much like fresh mango...

at what point in the brewing process did you add the mango puree?

 

[Bobby_M]

at what point in the brewing process did you add the mango puree?

About 48 hours after pitching. The idea is that you can add the fruit on day 1 if you want the most lactic production possible or delay it a bit if you want it less tart.

 

[DuncB]

Didn't find this thread before I started my raspberry Philly sour on Sunday.
Grain bill below

I mashed at 63, 67 and mash out 77.
Interesting my Philly sour yeast dated 2022 but had been in fridge all the time. Few bubbles on surface within a fe hours and airlock activity continuous.

I'm planning to use some freeze dried raspberry powder equivalent to they say a pound and a half of fresh raspberries.
@Bobby_M I now have concerns re the raspberry flavour and might need to go in search of some raspberry puree.
But maybe I'll taste it first, should these beers have an overwhelming fruit taste and smell?

 

[Bobby_M]

@Bobby_M I now have concerns re the raspberry flavour and might need to go in search of some raspberry puree.
But maybe I'll taste it first, should these beers have an overwhelming fruit taste and smell?

I used a full 8oz of powder in 2.5 gallons and it's weak. Muted aroma and flavor. It's pink rather than red. For the cost, I expected more.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

I use fresh or frozen raspberries added to the secondary fermenter.

 

[DuncB]

Well I've tipped in the raspberry powder and will wait a bit.

 

[Beernoob88]

Hi all, I just brewed a raspberry sour with Lallemand Philly sour and it turned out extremely well, so I figured I would share the recipe. One thing I did differently this time was to use dried raspberries, specifically Jungle Powders Raspberry Powder, which was WAY easier than dealing with fresh or frozen raspberries and it worked out perfectly. The idea came from someone else I saw in a forum post once, can't find the original post but let me know if it was you and I'm happy to give you a shout out for the original idea.

The OG was a little lower than I expected, but I don't mind considering I was going for something a little more refreshing and crushable. I recommend using the oldest hops you have on hand, doesn't make as much difference in this one and might add to the funk. Typical Philly Sour yeast fermentation here with a day of zero airlock activity (lactic acid production), then picks up the pace. I add the dehydrated raspberry after 5 days and it picked back up yet again, left for another two weeks.

See below for pic and recipe, enjoy!

BIAB
4 lbs Rahr North Star Pils
1 lbs Vienna
2 lbs Torrefied Wheat
2 lbs Flaked Wheat
4 oz. Acidulated Malt
2 oz. Special B
1 lb Corn Sugar (10 mins left in boil)

RO water adjusted to 57 ppm Chloride and 113 ppm Sulfate.

50 min mash at 152 deg

30 minute total boil time
Hops: Crystal 1.15 oz x 30 min boil
Corn sugar added x 10 mins
Whirlflock tab at 5 mins

2x Philly Sour yeast

Ferment 5 days at 70 degrees, then add 3.5 oz Dried Raspberry Powder (full bag, equals 28 oz. raspberried). Ferment additional 2 weeks.

Quick Question for ya.
How much water did you start with? just 5 gal and then topped off whatever is missing from the grain and boil off? Cause I have seen both ways. start with more water than the fermenter batch and boil it off or do 5 gals and add water to fill in the missing water from the boil.

 

[doug293cz]

Quick Question for ya.
How much water did you start with? just 5 gal and then topped off whatever is missing from the grain and boil off? Cause I have seen both ways. start with more water than the fermenter batch and boil it off or do 5 gals and add water to fill in the missing water from the boil.

This isn't really an appropriate recipe question. The amount of water you start will will vary depending on your process and equipment. You really need to characterize yours so you know how much you get out vs. how much you start with. The starting amount depends on your batch size (volume into fermenter), your grain absorption rate for your process, your plumbing losses for your mash tun, your boil-off rate for your process, and your volume losses for your process between the boil kettle and fermenter (how much wort you leave behind.)

In general when brewing using a mash, you want to use all of your required water for mashing and sparging, as this will maximize your lauter efficiency (how much extract (sugar) you actually get in your BK vs. how much extract was actually in your mash tun.) If you top up after the boil, you will have already taken an efficiency hit for using less water than was actually needed.

When brewing with all pre-made extract, then there is no lauter process (separation of wort from grain) so it doesn't really matter from an efficiency standpoint if you add the water pre-boil or post-boil.

Brew on

 

[Beernoob88]

This isn't really an appropriate recipe question. The amount of water you start will will vary depending on your process and equipment. You really need to characterize yours so you know how much you get out vs. how much you start with. The starting amount depends on your batch size (volume into fermenter), your grain absorption rate for your process, your plumbing losses for your mash tun, your boil-off rate for your process, and your volume losses for your process between the boil kettle and fermenter (how much wort you leave behind.)

In general when brewing using a mash, you want to use all of your required water for mashing and sparging, as this will maximize your lauter efficiency (how much extract (sugar) you actually get in your BK vs. how much extract was actually in your mash tun.) If you top up after the boil, you will have already taken an efficiency hit for using less water than was actually needed.

When brewing with all pre-made extract, then there is no lauter process (separation of wort from grain) so it doesn't really matter from an efficiency standpoint if you add the water pre-boil or post-boil.

Brew on

Ahh. I get what you mean. I BIAB right now and I noticed that l loose a lot of water from the grains. I think I could figure it out.

 

[Beernoob88]

Hi all, I just brewed a raspberry sour with Lallemand Philly sour and it turned out extremely well, so I figured I would share the recipe. One thing I did differently this time was to use dried raspberries, specifically Jungle Powders Raspberry Powder, which was WAY easier than dealing with fresh or frozen raspberries and it worked out perfectly. The idea came from someone else I saw in a forum post once, can't find the original post but let me know if it was you and I'm happy to give you a shout out for the original idea.

The OG was a little lower than I expected, but I don't mind considering I was going for something a little more refreshing and crushable. I recommend using the oldest hops you have on hand, doesn't make as much difference in this one and might add to the funk. Typical Philly Sour yeast fermentation here with a day of zero airlock activity (lactic acid production), then picks up the pace. I add the dehydrated raspberry after 5 days and it picked back up yet again, left for another two weeks.

See below for pic and recipe, enjoy!

BIAB
4 lbs Rahr North Star Pils
1 lbs Vienna
2 lbs Torrefied Wheat
2 lbs Flaked Wheat
4 oz. Acidulated Malt
2 oz. Special B
1 lb Corn Sugar (10 mins left in boil)

RO water adjusted to 57 ppm Chloride and 113 ppm Sulfate.

50 min mash at 152 deg

30 minute total boil time
Hops: Crystal 1.15 oz x 30 min boil
Corn sugar added x 10 mins
Whirlflock tab at 5 mins

2x Philly Sour yeast

Ferment 5 days at 70 degrees, then add 3.5 oz Dried Raspberry Powder (full bag, equals 28 oz. raspberried). Ferment additional 2 weeks.

I was thinking about adding 3-4lb of mashed and pasteurized raspberry's after 4-5 days fermenting rather than the powder. I tried a sour a week or so ago that had bits of fruit in it, it was amazing.

 

[DuncB]

Started to drink my attempt. Faint raspberry smell and taste. I used freeze dried raspberry powder equivalent to 660g of fresh raspberries. Would have coped with more powder but I'm happy with this experiment.

Sour enough without being mouth puckering.