Esters from lager yeast

[Brewddah]

I got judge comments back on my Munich Helles, and one of the judges noticed some esters in the flavor. I made a big 2L starter, and fermented at 49F. The yeast was wyeast Munich lager. I had the temperature probe on my controller taped to the side of the fermenter. Perhaps this wasn't enough, and the temperature inside was much higher? I'm considering buying a stainless thermowell for future lagers, but maybe just turning down the temperature a bit more will do the trick?

 

[McKnuckle]

Did the beer go through any large temp swings during fermentation, for example did you warm it for a diacetyl rest or cold crash it without gradual changes? Otherwise 49F is supposedly perfect for that yeast according to popular wisdom. Also could be that the judge thought something was there that's really not.

I have a Helles in the works that also spent most of its time at 49F, fermented with WY2124. I'm going to keg it in a couple of days, fingers crossed.

 

[sky4meplease]

Did you oxygenate prior to pitching?
PH?
2L isn't necessarily a big starter not for a Lager fermented in the 40's. If you started with 100 billion cells you like only ended with half of what you should have pitched with.
Damn light Lagers will pick you apart every time.

 

[Brewddah]

Mash pH was 5.3
I slowly raised the temperature to the diacetyl rest over a few days.

 

[sky4meplease]

How long did this beer Lager for?

 

[Brewddah]

4 months at 32F

 

[55x11]

I got judge comments back on my Munich Helles, and one of the judges noticed some esters in the flavor. I made a big 2L starter, and fermented at 49F. The yeast was wyeast Munich lager. I had the temperature probe on my controller taped to the side of the fermenter. Perhaps this wasn't enough, and the temperature inside was much higher? I'm considering buying a stainless thermowell for future lagers, but maybe just turning down the temperature a bit more will do the trick?

that judge might be off with their comment, it happens all the time. If only one judge sensed some esters, I would let it go.

judging is hard work and your palette saturates quickly when you taste and evaluate 20-40 beers. We are all subjective, so look at averages and not outliers.

 

[sky4meplease]

I have had pretty good luck with my Lagers though I haven't entered any into competition. I have a Helles Bock Lagering now that I will enter this spring so we will see what the "professional" taste buds say.
I pitch massive amounts of fresh yeast, oxygenate well, and Lager at or just below 40 degrees. I think freezing temperatures for Lagering drops everything out of suspension including the yeast that you want to slowly consume off flavors.
This Helles Bock called for 600 billion cells and I probably pitched closer to 800 billion.
After a 1.5L and a 2.5L starter I did a 8L starter in a 5 gallon bucket.
The point is you can't mess around with yeast in these types of beers. There just isn't enough else going on to cover up off flavors.
If you get the opportunity to have it judged again it may help to back up the first claim.
The judging can be subjective and it is what it is.
Live, learn and brew on.

 

[Alain2]

Again, did you oxygen you wort with pure oxygen?

Did you have a good water profile for the yeast?

 

[Brewddah]

I don't have an oxygen tank. I just try to splash the wort around as much as possible when I transfer to the fermenter.

Yeah, my water profile was good I think. Nothing too low for the yeast to not get enough of. 50 ppm Calcium, 66 ppm Chloride, and 43 ppm sulfate.

 

[sky4meplease]

Good ways to reduce ester formation:
Use a yeast not prone to it.
Maintain ideal fermentation temperatures.
Proper oxygenation.
Proper pitch rates.

 

[McKnuckle]

One thing nobody has asked... do YOU notice any esters? We're talking all about your technique, but noone has asked yet if you actually liked your own beer, or if you notice any flaws in it yourself. That does kinda matter!

I kegged my Helles today at 3 weeks. It tasted mighty fine in the hydrometer jar (1.051-1.009). I tried to introduce minimal oxygen during the hot side this time, knowing full well that I can't truly approach "LoDO" brewing, but I wanted to make the effort to the extent that my system and patience allowed.

 

[Alain2]

I don't have an oxygen tank. I just try to splash the wort around as much as possible when I transfer to the fermenter.

Yeah, my water profile was good I think. Nothing too low for the yeast to not get enough of. 50 ppm Calcium, 66 ppm Chloride, and 43 ppm sulfate.

Get yourself an oxygenation system, any yeast guru will tell you that splashing is not good enough.

 

[Brewddah]

One thing nobody has asked... do YOU notice any esters? We're talking all about your technique, but noone has asked yet if you actually liked your own beer, or if you notice any flaws in it yourself. That does kinda matter!

I honestly didn't notice esters, but maybe it's my unrefined palette

 

[sky4meplease]

My wife (beer snob uh um) was telling me a story about being at Bell's Brewery and there quality control guy running through the place looking for particular individuals (employees) to taste samples because they were sensitive to particular flavors/aromas more so than others. Your judge may just be more sensitive to esters than the next judge.
That is why I will send beers to multiple competitions to look for similarities in the feedback.