Do I have an infection? Lager Yeast Fermented Warm

[otis.1510]

So I brewed a lager about 3 weeks ago

3lb Pale
3lb Pilsner
3lb Flaked Rice
Mashed at 152 for 60 minutes, then boiled for 60 minutes
Typical hop additions
Wyeast 2124 Bohemian Lager Yeast (1 pack)
I made a 1L starter the night before, 18 hours before pitching.

Went to transfer to a keg yesterday (24 days after pitching) and found the gravity to be 1.020 (hydrometer and tilt confirmed)
SG:1.040 (Expected was 1.046)
Expected FG: 1.013

I figure this is due to underpitching. Expected yeast count (w/o stir plate) was 150 billion yeast cells, and yeast needed was 320 billion. This was a second batch we did that day, so didn't have the patience or time to propagate more yeast. Decided to ferment warm at 63F as an ale since this yeast seemed pretty forgiving according to a brulosophy experiment with the same yeast.

Looked inside the fermenter and found the below image inside. Panicked and decided to cold crash yesterday in order to keg it as soon as possible in case of an infection. Taste and smell were fine.

After cold crashing a day, the white "floaties" had all left, submerging themselves leaving a clear surface.

Curious to hear your thoughts if this is an infection and if anyone has experience with this yeast strain?

Also, would fermenting warm allow for some forgiveness on the underpitch or since lager strains are different than ales, do pitch rates for lagers still need to be higher? Thanks!

 

[Sammy86]

Also, would fermenting warm allow for some forgiveness on the underpitch or since lager strains are different than ales, do pitch rates for lagers still need to be higher? Thanks!

Thats pellicle in there which I dont believe has anything to do with pitch rate...but cleaning and sanitation.

When fermenting any yeast you need to have the correct amount regardless of temperature.

 

[otis.1510]

Thats pellicle in there which I dont believe has anything to do with pitch rate...but cleaning and sanitation.

When fermenting any yeast you need to have the correct amount regardless of temperature.

Thank you... So, I've got a wild yeast in there.
If I hadn't cold crashed and let it submerge was there a chance of separating the beer from pellicle or is it a lost cause?

Am I okay to consume what I kegged?

 

[IslandLizard]

The pellicle is only a side effect, the infection lives in your beer.
How does it taste?

Now with an OG of 1.040 and an FG of 1.020 (hydrometer) something else is off, that FG should be much lower, around 1.008-1.010.

 

[otis.1510]

It tastes like a light, drinkable beer with some sweetness and fruity notes. Not tart or sour.

It was a simple recipe meant to fill a keg to have something to drink and definitely took the backseat on brew day

 

[otis.1510]

The pellicle is only a side effect, the infection lives in your beer.
How does it taste?

Now with an OG of 1.040 and an FG of 1.020 (hydrometer) something else is off, that FG should be much lower, around 1.008-1.010.

The underattenuation could be attributed to the under pitching no? Or a messed up mash? Or the infection? I love homebrewing

 

[IslandLizard]

It tastes like a light, drinkable beer with some sweetness and fruity notes. Not tart or sour.

It was a simple recipe meant to fill a keg to have something to drink and definitely took the backseat on brew day

Ah, good!
It's probably not quite fermented out, at only 50% apparent attenuation, Hence the slight sweetness that may be masking (the slight) off-flavors from the infection, and usually a slight sourness.

It looks quite clear, so most yeast has dropped out. Fill that keg, keep it cold (keezer, kegerator) and enjoy it, as you intended.
Keep an eye on increasing keg pressure, especially when you experience more foaming when pouring. Being a Lager yeast it may slowly keep fermenting.

After transferring, clean and sanitize that equipment thoroughly, as infections (bacteria, wild yeasts) can be lingering. Pay special attention to the groove in the lid, as well as all (racking) equipment, hoses/tubing that touched your infected beer.

BTW, the underpitch may have caused a slow start allowing other microorganisms to get a slight foothold before the yeast took over.

 

[otis.1510]

Ah, good!
It's probably not quite fermented out, at only 50% apparent attenuation, Hence the slight sweetness that may be masking (the slight) off-flavors from the infection, and usually a slight sourness.

It looks quite clear, so most yeast has dropped out. Fill that keg, keep it cold (keezer, kegerator) and enjoy it, as you intended.
Keep an eye on increasing keg pressure, especially when you experience more foaming when pouring. Being a Lager yeast it may slowly keep fermenting.

After transferring, clean and sanitize that equipment thoroughly, as infections (bacteria, wild yeasts) can be lingering. Pay special attention to the groove in the lid, as well as all (racking) equipment, hoses/tubing that touched your infected beer.

BTW, the underpitch may have caused a slow start allowing other microorganisms to get a slight foothold before the yeast took over.

Thank you very much! Love the learning process and you've certainly given me a lot of feedback. Much appreciated

 

[IslandLizard]

Wyeast 2124 Bohemian Lager Yeast (1 pack)
I made a 1L starter the night before, 18 hours before pitching.
[...]
Love the learning process [...]

Since we're in the Fermentation & Yeast forum, my first advice to you would be to learn more about making starters, and estimating cell counts.
18 hours is definitely too short for ample growth, and 1 liter is not quite enough either, unless it's to revitalize a slurry (vitality starter). Complicating things, the recommended pitch rate for lager yeasts is double that of ale yeasts, due to fermenting at lower temps. These are general guidelines, there's quite a bit of leeway.

If you haven't used it yet, I recommend this yeast calculator:

Homebrew Dad's Online Yeast Starter Calculator

Use Homebrew Dad's Online Yeast Calculator to determine how many yeast cells you need to pitch into your wort.

www.brewunited.com

I allow 2-3 days for stirring starters, even as long as a week when the yeast is much older. I always wait for the change in color to happen from dark to significantly lighter as a telltale that there was enough growth, then let it stir another day. That's followed by a few days of cold crashing in the fridge, to let the yeast settle out.

And aerate (or oxygenate) your batch of chilled wort, right before pitching yeast. That certainly helps getting getting the yeast to grow more, establishing herself before any possible invader can.

 

[Miraculix]

Also, a big headspace plus the bucket might actually invite infections. Had the same thing going on, buckets are usually leaking air and oxygen gets in. Next thing is oxygen loving bacteria start to thrive, like acedobacter for example. If no visible infection takes place, oxidation will surely do. Better get yourself something air tight.

 

[otis.1510]

Also, a big headspace plus the bucket might actually invite infections. Had the same thing going on, buckets are usually leaking air and oxygen gets in. Next thing is oxygen loving bacteria start to thrive, like acedobacter for example. If no visible infection takes place, oxidation will surely do. Better get yourself something air tight.

What did you go with for something air tight? Any recs are much appreciated!

 

[wsmith1625]

You got some solid advice from @IslandLizard.

You don't know where your beer picked up the infection so you're going to need to clean and sanitize all of your cold side equipment. Break down all valves and remove o-rings and gaskets so there are no hiding places for bacteria. Give everything a good soak in hot water with PBW or Oxyclean Free. Then wash and rinse, but don't scrub anything plastic including your fermenter bucket. Scrubbing will cause scratches and create hiding spots for bacteria. If any grunge doesn't easily wipe off with a sponge or soft cloth, soak longer. Then sanitize everything with a proper sanitizer. I use Starsan, but Iodophor or diluted bleach water also work well. On your next brew day, sanitize all your cold side equipment again before you use it.

After your beer is in the fermenter and you pitched your yeast, try not to open the lid and make sure anything that contacts the beer is sanitized.

Bucket fermenters are fine for home brewing. It's a very common vessel used by many home brewers. The biggest complaint about them is that they're permeable to oxygen and don't seal well. Once you have active fermentation the positive pressure keeps the bad stuff from getting in.

 

[Miraculix]

What did you go with for something air tight? Any recs are much appreciated!

Avoid glass. Glass can kill you.

I have made good experience with the speidel pet fermenters. Using them for years now. But there are also other options in the US I think.

 

[eliastheodosis]

I have made good experience with the speidel pet fermenters. Using them for years now. But there are also other options in the US I think.

Another vote for Speidel. They are well constructed with a pragmatic design. Easy to clean and easy to use. There are some other options here in the US but the Speidel is available if you look a little. Other options come with their own issues. Fermonsters are hard to move around because the walls are thin, and their lids are a little annoying because their o-ring seals are extremely hard to get seated. Then the lids themselves are prone to sticking and being hard to remove.. Most other PET options are more expensive but might come with different perks like pressure tolerance, etc.

The pellicle is only a side effect, the infection lives in your beer.
How does it taste?

Fantastic pair of sentences there

 

[Zambezi Special]

+1 on speidel
I got just a 12 litre one. Works great.

But buckets can work well. My bucket looked and felt like it closed properly, but it didn't. Never saw a bubble.
These days I wrap some of that plastic wrap stuff (gone blank on the proper name) around the bottlom of the airlock, before pushing in the hole and it solved the problem.

 

[otis.1510]

+1 on speidel
I got just a 12 litre one. Works great.

But buckets can work well. My bucket looked and felt like it closed properly, but it didn't. Never saw a bubble.
These days I wrap some of that plastic wrap stuff (gone blank on the proper name) around the bottlom of the airlock, before pushing in the hole and it solved the problem.

They've been solid for me for the last 15 batches or so. The lids are always a b*tch to get off, so I figured the seal was great. If something is easier to clean, air tight, and you don't have to worry about scratches housing enemies, I'm all in. @Miraculix

Thank you folks!

 

[Miraculix]

They've been solid for me for the last 15 batches or so. The lids are always a b*tch to get off, so I figured the seal was great. If something is easier to clean, air tight, and you don't have to worry about scratches housing enemies, I'm all in. @Miraculix

Thank you folks!

I have had many buckets over time and only 1 was air tight. If you manage to get one of these, all good!

 

[rtstrider]

Wrong forum