Environmental friendly brewing...

[MMW]

I'm having trouble visualizing a sewage meter and how it might work.

I just don't want to have to fix it when it breaks.

 

[planenut]

They figure whatever goes in must come out and charge you accordingly. That is why filling a pool or watering your lawn costs more than it should... They are charging you for it going down the sewer...

 

[The Pol]

They figure whatever goes in must come out and charge you accordingly. That is why filling a pool or watering your lawn costs more than it should... They are charging you for it going down the sewer...

My sewage is flat rate...

The town next door, they allow you to sign up for a SUMMER watering program where they lock you in at a flat sewage rate so that you dont get penalized when you water the grass.

 

[Duckfoot]

I agree with the OP about the recirculating CFC / IC pump... It just makes sense not to waste 20 minutes of water flow to cool wort... Now if it was summer time and you just overseeded your lawn, then hook the output to a sprinkler and go back to your regularly scheduled programming...

That being said, I am by know means an environmental guru... Sure I recycle as much as I can, I have a rain barrel (that I don't think I have ever used) and I even started a compost pile for various kitchen scraps / brew leftovers...

I however do not plan on getting rid of any of my 5 cars, stop using my A/C at any point, or replacing all my lightbulbs with CFL's...

I take pride in my size 15 carbon footprint...

 

[alpo]

I just put my keggle on top one of the burning tires in my backyard. We've all got to do our part.

 

[iceman80403]

It seems like kegging your beer is a lot more green than bottling every batch. The keg itself is likely reused (Reduce Reuse Recycle), it takes less sanitizer to sanitize one container, no bottle caps just thrown away (if you don't use flip-top bottles), less material to cool compared to bottles + caps. I don't know how much environmental impact there is from buying the extra equipment, production of liquid CO2 (no extra CO2 released to the atmosphere because I think that is where it was extracted from, but I'm not positive).

You could even look into saving the CO2 produced during fermentation and use it to carbonate the beer. I read somewhere sometime that some German breweries do this.

To my knowledge Star-San is by far the most environmentally friendly sanitizer because it can be stored and reused. It's also probably not too bad for the environment if in small concentrations it's yeast nutrient.

Compost your used grains, hops and trub and use them to fertilize your garden of hop plants. Save your chiller water for watering said plants, laundry, yard etc.

 

[llazy_llama]

I just put my keggle on top one of the burning tires in my backyard. We've all got to do our part.

FYI: Recycling jokes does not make you green.

I now do my boil over a pile of burning tires. That way I can get rid of the tires and brew at the same time.

 

[anderj]

I take pride in my size 15 carbon footprint...

That is a pretty sh&*%Y attitude. I think that we are pretty far past the "climate change is a myth" stage. Scientists have been screaming about it for Forty years, now finally some people are listening. Has spring snowmelt crept up a few weeks in your neck of the woods? How about the first blossoms of the spring?

 

[Denny's Evil Concoctions]

Problem with electric is that most of tghe power plants in NA are coal fired. That's why I roll my eyes at these proposed allentirely electric cars.

I recirc chill in the summer as I can get fined for water abuse if it goes down the grain or on the lawn outside of watering hours/days.

Now, if you want a green way of boiling, build a rotating solar boiler.

 

[Pappers_]

Another aspect of environmentally-aware brewing is in the ingredients we use. When possible, I like to use organically grown malt, grain and hops. I'm fortunate, because I live in Chicago, I pickup 55 lb. bags of organic malt at Mid Country. Hops I get at Seven Bridges Coop.

Cheers for this thread!

 

[bendavanza]

I dump my cooling water into the pool, which almost always needs topping off. The more I brew with propane, the more I notice how inefficient it is, the BTU's are crawling up the sides of the kegs, not to mention, how much heat it transfers to me. Maybe some better burners would help, I'd like to change to a KAB4 or hurricane burner, but a lot of these builds have me thinking about an eventual conversion to electric.
Pol- I don't know how you can manage a sub $100 electric bill with that many SF. Mine is $300/month. I must be getting ripped off. My entire house is electric though, and there's the pool pump, no gas, and the girlfriend takes long showers.

 

[bendavanza]

Funny this should come up and I get an email from kegkits.com about green brewing:
"IS BREWING YOUR OWN BEER ECO-FRIENDLY?



This may not have occurred to you, but as a homebrewer, you are playing a sizeable role in protecting the environment. That's right. Belive it or not, homebrewing and the environmental movement are quite compatible. For one thing, brewing your own beer cuts down significantly on the wasteful packaging associated with store-bought beer. It also saves fuel and curbs pollution yielded by long distance transport of beer. Furthermore, as your own brewmaster, you have the option to choose healthier, eco-friendly brewing ingredients.

By brewing your own beer, you are saving the transportation miles involved in shopping those store-bought beers all over the place - from warehouses and distribution centers to grocery stores - then to your home and back to the recycling center. Beer is heavy and is transported across the country and around the world on a regular basis. If you make it at home, it is transported from the fridge to your hand - not much of a carbon footprint there!

When it comes to packaging, homebrewers can collect glass beer bottles at home and from friends, or even pick up a few at the recycling center, sterilize them and reuse them over and over, getting much more than just one use from them before they are recycled.

If you really get into sustainable beer brewing, you can grow your own hops and other ingredients needed to produce your beer, making it even more environmentally friendly since the ingredients are being produced right there at home. There is also a fantastic sense of pride that comes along with knowing you crafted your beer from the ground up.

Not only is making your own beer eco-friendly, it can be very cost-effective, depending on how much and what kind of beer you regularly consume. If you plan on brewing regularly, you'll benefit by purchasing some ingredients in bulk if you're not growing them at home. Kegkits.com carries grains, hops, and malt extracts in bulk.


Bottle Bill Legistlation
Another step you can take as an eco-concious beer lover is to support Bottle Bill Legislation in your state.

Bottle bills or container deposit laws are currently in place in 11 states. These laws help to extend the life of beverage containers through reusing and recycling. The way it works is simple: a retailer purchases beverages from a distributor and a deposit is paid for each container. Consumers buy beverages and pay the retailer a deposit, then return empty beverage containers to the retailer or a redemption center where the deposit is refunded. The retailer recoups the deposit from the distributor and, in most states with bottle bills, a handling fee of less than three cents. When deposits are left unclaimed they are either returned to the distributor or become property of the state, where they are often used toward environmental and recycling programs.

Bottle bill legistlation, once passed, has shown to significantly increase container recycling rates. States that have implemented bottle bill legislation have doubled and even tripled their container recycling rates above the national average. The Container Recycling Institute reports that the 11 states with bottle bills have diverted hundreds of billions of beverage containers (glass, plastic, and aluminum) from the waste stream into the recycling stream over the last 35 years.

The 'bottle bill' states include: California: More than 24 oz=10¢, less than 24 oz=5¢. Connecticut: 5¢. Delaware: 5¢. Hawaii: 5¢. Iowa:5¢. Maine: Wine/liquor 15¢, others, 5¢. Massachusetts: 5¢. Michigan: 10¢. New York: 5¢. Oregon: 2¢ for standard refillable, 5¢ for others. Vermont: Wine/liquor=15¢, others 5¢."

 

[springer]

My water comes from the Hudson river so I get those nice PCB's actually the water isn't contaminated just the mud and fish.The water temp is never above 60° even during the summer out of the tap. All my gray water goes into a dry well and the storm drains on my road are also dry wells so every gallon goes back into the ground. So really there is no need to conserve water in my area. Other than to save a few bucks

having said that I do reuse the chiller water to clean the equipment and to water the plants in the summer.

The Pol ... 50 or 60 bucks a month for electricity?!! Mine is 200 in winter and 300+ in the summer with the central air. Just another reason to get the hell out of NY


Ohh and I also recycle every drop of beer

 

[LoveWeizen]

Ohh and I also recycle every drop of beer

Like in the movie "Waterworld"?

 

[springer]

not quite but I have been known to water the bushes.... excellent fertilizer

 

[Denny's Evil Concoctions]

Pissing in your neighbors gas tank is not recycling. ;0]

 

[conpewter]

I think The Pol has it down. The electric brew-rig uses less than $1 in electric during a brew-day. Using the no-chill method allows you to not waste any water. This is especially useful in the winter as the wort will slightly raise the temp of whatever room it is in (and slightly less useful in summer for the same reason).

Growing your own hops is another thing mentioned that I think is helpful. Buying in bulk saves money and uses less gas.

 

[remilard]

That is a pretty sh&*%Y attitude. I think that we are pretty far past the "climate change is a myth" stage. Scientists have been screaming about it for Forty years, now finally some people are listening. Has spring snowmelt crept up a few weeks in your neck of the woods? How about the first blossoms of the spring?

Nope, but I did notice that the antarctic ice cap is expanding.

 

[humann_brewing]

Our electric bill for our 3000sq ft home is about 50-75 bucks a month depending on whether the central air is on.

Holy crap that would be nice. My March 15 - April 15 was $66 and that is the lowest I have had in a while and only because there was no heat, air, put in a efficient pool pump and the 3rd fridge wasn't hooked up and that is it.

We are installing a breezair this weekend for the summer heat. A 5K investment that will take 5-6 year to recoup in savings over a conventional AC. I am guessing my July bill will be around $120 when it will be used the most and hell of a lot better than $500 and I will be nice a cool at 75* when it's 110* outside.

I hate paying the power company. Our rates suck so bad in Cali. It's like 12c per Kw for the first 400, then 13c for the next 150, then jumps to 23c for the next 300 or so and then to 34c for the next 400 and if you get beyond that it is like 44c a friggin' Kw. This is how you can get a $500/month cooling bill in the summer.

 

[The Pol]

Yes, my electric bill is between $50-$75 a month depending on the season. We have one fridge, one kegerator and one fermenting freezer running.

$50/mo in the "tween" months
$75/mo in the summer months with the a/c on
$65/mo in the winter with the furnace running

Our house has gas heat and gas water heating.

Our average gas bill for the past 12 months was $84/mo

Average water bill is $35/mo (this includes 4 months of daily lawn watering in the summer)

Our home is 3,000 sq. ft with three occupants.

Electric brewing is pretty efficient and cheap. As Conpewter said... about $1 per session. Not to mention I never have to go refill a tank, worry about running out, overheating my garage when I do brew, burning my house down, CO emissions.... etc. The coolers retain much of what the electric element in the HLT provides for heat so that element does not work very hard during the HERMS recirc.

 

[springer]

Pissing in your neighbors gas tank is not recycling. ;0]

haven't done that but I pissed on his cat .. what it was doing under the boxwood is beyond me...

 

[DrinknBuddy]

I live in New Mexico. My elec bill runs 28 bucks in the winter months and a little higher in the summer. My total bills are rarely over 100 bucks together in the dead of winter for 2300sq ft.
We use swamp coolers for the summer. Thus water is the thing we need the most and don't have. You can make up for the water loss with the old "if it's yellow let it mellow. if it's brown flush it down." routine.
I still like the "no cool wort" method but have yet to try it. I'd like to see a pic of the resulting beer cooled down to 40*. Bet it has a lot of cold haze. What about the off flavors?

 

[The Pol]

I live in New Mexico. My elec bill runs 28 bucks in the winter months and a little higher in the summer. My total bills are rarely over 100 bucks together in the dead of winter for 2300sq ft.
We use swamp coolers for the summer. Thus water is the thing we need the most and don't have. You can make up for the water loss with the old "if it's yellow let it mellow. if it's brown flush it down." routine.
I still like the "no cool wort" method but have yet to try it. I'd like to see a pic of the resulting beer cooled down to 40*. Bet it has a lot of cold haze. What about the off flavors?

No off flavors, no more haze than my chilled beers at 34F

It was brewed 2 weeks ago, so I expect some haze, all of my beers have it this early on. That being said, it is pretty clear for 2 weeks since mashing in.

 

[DrinknBuddy]

So I can just take my HDPE brew bucket and poor in my hot wort or do you cover the pot and wait for it to go down below 150*? Then pour over to the bucket? Pitch yeast in 24hrs?
Hey with this I can flush after every beer No really I'm think'n solar for me. If you get damaged cells and make your own you can be in business in no time. Still we get a huge amount of sun every year.

 

[fifelee]

Another aspect of environmentally-aware brewing is in the ingredients we use. When possible, I like to use organically grown malt, grain and hops. I'm fortunate, because I live in Chicago, I pickup 55 lb. bags of organic malt at Mid Country. Hops I get at Seven Bridges Coop.

Cheers for this thread!

Don't want to rain on your parade, but organic grain isn't all that environmentally friendly. I really do believe in most organic produce, but I also feel the organic label is just blindly accepted as better when that isn't true in all cases. In my experience grains are one of the exceptions where organic is actually worse.

My father and I farm barley and wheat in central Montana. I feel I have some unique insight as I have seen our land farmed many different ways over the years. My grandfather was organic by default (everyone was organic in those days). My father has followed more conventional farming changes. As a conventional farmer I understand if you are wary of my information, but nonetheless I will try to accurately describe the pros/cons of the different farming practices I have witnessed.

I do see the benefit of organic when it comes to fruits, vegetables, and even hops. These plants often get directly sprayed with insecticides and fungicides. But when it comes to grains, they are typically only sprayed with herbicides (to control weeds) in the plants infancy long before the seed is formed and not at all if the farmer had good weed control before planting. As for insecticides and fungicides, I can't remember the last time we sprayed them on grain fields. While I don’t deny the possible negatives of chemical residues I feel they are far less then the negatives caused by organic weed control practices.

To control weeds organic grain farmers go back to the old days of plowing a field. While the non-organic no-till farming method we use requires herbicides (mostly Roundup), we have far more organic matter in or soil versus organic plowed fields. Continually plowing a field repeatedly exposed the organic matter to the air where it quickly oxidizes into carbon dioxide (which contributes to global warming). Less organic matter in the soil means less water retention (plus erosion), less nutrient release, and more crusting of the soil. Crusted soil (a common problem in organic grain farming) creates a poor seed bed and plant roots get less water and oxygen. Logically this makes sense, as no where in nature is the ground continually plowed. No-till farming is much better for soil condition.

Plowed fields also drastically increase land erosion often into river and streams. The recent drought was almost as bad as the dust bowl of the 1930's. The reason topsoil didn't blow away and the country didn't starve this time was because of newer no-till farming practices that organic farmers can't use. Even 70 years later we are still working to rebuild top soil and knock down dirt drifts that resulted from my great grandfathers organic farming practices.

In addition to erosion, plowing a field burns far more fossil fuels than the alternative. Since we started using more modern non-organic farming practices our diesel consumption has dropped by over half.

The other difference is the use of fertilizers. We do use tones of fertilizer similar to the stuff most people buy for their lawns. I believe organic producers of fruits and vegetables use fertilizers like compost and manure. While this works on the relatively small areas needed to produce fruits and vegetables it is not practical for the 100’s of millions of grain acres (that would be a lot of methane producing cow sht). The organic farmers in our area just don’t fertilize.

From what I can gather organic farmers of fruits and vegetable produce similar yields (sometimes even better) to conventional farming methods. This is far from true with grain farming. Talking to organic grain farmers in our area and knowing what my grandfather produced, organic grain land produces less than half the yield of conventional methods. This decreases the food supply and increases prices. Now this is great for the farmer, but bad for the consumer especially the poor who struggle to afford food.

Another negative of less productive organic land is that more land has to be broken up from its "natural" state to grow the same amount of food. When you fly over our heartland and see endless fields, the vast majority of those are grains. Imagine needing to double all that area? Lower yielding organic grains cause vast tracts of land to be broken up from its natural state to make the same amount of food. Personally I feel the negatives of “non-organic fertilizer” usage often mentioned by organic supports are worth keeping 100’s of million of acres (that we don’t have) from being broken up.

I hope it doesn't seem like I am attacking organic supporters, as I am an organic guy in many cases. I just think there is a lot of disinformation out there especially when it comes to organic grains, which do have some very serious environmental side effects.

Rant over and sorry for the thread Hijack.

 

[Kauai_Kahuna]

Don't want to rain on your parade, but organic grain isn't all that environmentally friendly.
--cut--
Rant Over

Thanks for that very informative posting, it was worth reading and thinking about.

 

[Pappers_]

Don't want to rain on your parade, but organic grain isn't all that environmentally friendly . . ..

Hi. I thank you for the tone of your response - very thoughtful and respectful. I deeply appreciate that - too many times these sorts of conversations are dismissive and thoughtless. So thanks!

I come from rural Iowa (although I'm in Chicago now) and have family that farms, and they do both organic (garlic and vegetables) and non-organic (corn and soybeans).

In summary, I think your main point is that organically grown barley isn't good for the environment primarily because it isn't good for the soil. That seems to ignore the damage to soil from large-scale pesticide and chemical use. But in the end, I know that we are talking about a mix of agricultural practices - both organic and chemical.

So, cheers, here's to the farmers who grow our barley!

Jim

 

[fifelee]

Hi. I thank you for the tone of your response - very thoughtful and respectful. I deeply appreciate that - too many times these sorts of conversations are dismissive and thoughtless. So thanks!

I come from rural Iowa (although I'm in Chicago now) and have family that farms, and they do both organic (garlic and vegetables) and non-organic (corn and soybeans).

In summary, I think your main point is that organically grown barley isn't good for the environment primarily because it isn't good for the soil. That seems to ignore the damage to soil from large-scale pesticide and chemical use. But in the end, I know that we are talking about a mix of agricultural practices - both organic and chemical.

So, cheers, here's to the farmers who grow our barley!

Jim

I’ll give a summary a try.

Conventional no-till grain farming uses Roundup about 3 times in a 2 year cycle. Often no other chemicals are used and the majority of the time chemicals are only sprayed on fallow land not the crop. I personally wouldn’t call that “large scale”. Organic grain farming plows the ground about 4 times in a two year cycle. I understand the claim of chemical residue, but because of chemical usage we get far less erosion, much better soil conditions, and burn half the diesel.

Conventional no-till grain farming uses non-organic fertilizer. The manufacturing of this fertilizer does have some environmental issues that I don't deny but think technology could solve. Organic grain farming uses basically no fertilizer. The use of fertilizer allows over 100 million acres to be left in its natural state.

In my opinion the environmental damage from chemical and fertilizer use in conventional no-till grain farming is minimal but yields huge environmental dividends in erosion, diesel consumption, affordable food, and natural land.

My disclaimer:
This is my knowledge of dry land grain farming in Montana. Practices may be different in other areas.