English Ales - What's your favorite recipe?

[Hanglow]

I like your thinking

I'm sure a lot of homebrewers can't get the darker colour of the beer using 100% GP base malt... so maybe there is a bit that is darker kilned? they do get it contract grown for them and they use enough that they will get it contract malted for them, so another option is that maybe they simply get a darker base malt overall.

Of course the actual process can affect the colour a lot as well, and the yeast itself affects colour, as far as I know no yeast labs offer the proper TT yeast, which I think is multi strain

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I have a vague memory that they used to colour with caramel (like most British brewers - that's as in the sugar, not the malt) but switched to black malt ?in the 90s?

 

[Hanglow]

I suppose if they used black GP then it wouldn't contradict their 100% GP malt claim

 

[ba-brewer]

How do people condition their low to moderate ABV English Ales? I am talking about something in the 4 to 5%ABV range.

I have seen people say they go grain to glass in a week for something like a low ABV dark mild. Is this another USian misconception of about English ales that it should consumed shortly after it finishes fermenting?

I usually start to sample about 2 weeks of kegging my English ales, but don't normally really start drinking until a another week or so more. I am wondering if I should be giving them even more time.

 

[cyberbackpacker]

On Ron's site, and in his books, he speaks to the original "mild" and "keeping" beers. Originally mild meant specifically that it was not aged and consumed young as you say, whereas keeping beers were stored for a period of time before being sent out to the public. From these two types many modern UK beers evolved. (This is a VERY short cliffs notes of things).

So in short, I would say that based on historical accuracy that yes it is common/proper to drink some styles young/"early".

I personally do this with beers sub 5% frequently, but I am also serving these as "real ale" and I think these tend to be ready to drink sooner than the same beer when bottled or kegged (and others have experienced similar results).

My $0.02, but I am just another 'murican!

 

[ong]

I regularly make light and medium crystal malt from GP. Not sure how much difference it really makes — just a fun little tweak.

 

[ba-brewer]

Thanks @cyberbackpacker for you thoughts. I only keg at the moment so it is good to get your perspective of real ale vs bottled or kegged.

I am trying to figure out how to get more esters in my English ales. I have tried the start low then let rise then drop temp thing, done the loose lid approach but not much difference. I know I am getting ester as I can smell them during fermentation and when I rack the beer off they are present but don't seem to get them in the glass. I have had a few English ales that been slow to kick and those seems to have more esters so that is part of why I asked the question.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I'll defer to the Brummies for expertise on mild, but all that 19th century stuff is utterly irrelevant to "modern" mild. Most British homebrewers find that their bitters seem to peak in bottle after about 3 months at cellar temperatures, but the British palate does prefer a slightly older drink in general. Reduce that a bit for keg, a bit more if on cask, add a bit for dark milds being dark, reduce a bit for the lower ABV (<4%) and you're probably looking at a peak after 2 months????

>4.5% ABV is getting into strong territory!!!

 

[Hanglow]

Most casks of bitter have a about a two month use by period as the isinglass, if used, tends to start to break down after that I think. That's from racking. I know Hook Norton have a 6 week date.

I tend to think beers like that I make and bottle are best between 4-6 weeks, after that not so much . But it is personal preference to a degree

 

[kmarkstevens]

Agree with Hanglow, for 1030 OG beers, the sweet spot seems to be 4-6 weeks in the bottle. Drinkable after 2 weeks but better at 4 weeks, and start hitting a sell by date 2 months out.

I'm a noobie at keg conditioning and only have 1 corny. I did do a ordinary bitter and let naturally carbonate/condition for 2 weeks in the keg, and it was really tasty. I need to experiment more. Challenge with just one keg, is that tends to be my "house" 1030 beer (I've got half a dozen mainly English style mild, bitter, porter, pale ale's, etc)

 

[HTH1975]

The first brewery I worked at here in North Yorkshire used to rack to cask after a week. Fermentation was 4 days, then crash at 10C for 2-3 days. Dump the yeast off the bottom of the FV, then rack to cask with adjunct and isinglass. 6 weeks ‘use by’ date. Beers were generally in best condition at around 2-3 weeks. For the IPA we did, it required a little aging to reach peak, so we’d normally store that in CT for 2+ weeks before racking. Oddly enough, that was the slowest seller (these days you’d never think that an IPA would be the least popular, but it’s very old-fashioned in the areas we sold to).

The current brewery I work at, 4 days is almost always right. We stop 2 points above FG, crash cool, then it will carbonate gently in the cask when served at 10-12C. The beer is allowed to clear for at least 4-5 days in CT at 10C before racking to cask with isinglass. We don’t use adjunct except on rare occasions. Our use by is 6-8 weeks. We use a crazy amounts of finishing hops at ‘hop stand’ - approx 3g/litre, which works out at 820g/barrel. As such, best enjoyed young.

Hope that gives some insight into methods in a (very) traditional Yorkshire brewery.

 

[HTH1975]

How would you describe the recipe of Taylor's Landlord? Something like 90% GP, 10% #2 invert sugar, 35IBUs (StyrianG, Goldings, Fuggles), probably no dry hops, 4,3% & FG <1.010? Do they use some crystal/roasted grain here or is it just the syrup, their web site says "with hints of roasted malt"?

Edit. I forgot the following video where they describe Boltmaker. That contains some crystal & amber and probably the grain bill in Landlord won't be so different.

https://www.morningadvertiser.co.uk...mpion-Beer-of-Britain-winner-Timothy-Taylor-s

Timmy Taylor might say that Landlord is 100% Golden Promise, but I think they’re being economical with the truth. It’s well known that they use invert sugar, even the Ragus website states this (Ragus supply invert sugar here in the UK). My guess is they use 10-20% of the overall fermentables as invert sugar, which would account for the colour and sweetness. Maybe a tiny bit of brewers caramel to darken, if required.

 

[ESBrewer]

^ Highly interesting. Based solely on internet, I think they use all these ingredients: Golden Promise base malt (from Simpsons at least, maybe other maltsters as well), small amount of crystal malt (at least Fawcett's, that could provide crystalized GP for them or then not..), amber malt for some color/roast (see this video at 4:31 and also the previous video I linked) and probably invert #2 that makes the body lighter and adds some color & caramelized sugar taste because people who visit the brewery see lots of #2 invert sugar and because the body of the beer feels quite light and refreshing. I recently had bottled Landlord at near freezing point (too cold, yes) and it felt very light and refreshing, but actually quite enjoyable. It kinda made me think that there could be a bit of additional sugar. But invert could also be there to prime the casks.

 

[Fatcatthegreat]

Timmy Taylor might say that Landlord is 100% Golden Promise, but I think they’re being economical with the truth. It’s well known that they use invert sugar, even the Ragus website states this (Ragus supply invert sugar here in the UK). My guess is they use 10-20% of the overall fermentables as invert sugar, which would account for the colour and sweetness. Maybe a tiny bit of brewers caramel to darken, if required.

I would love a more or less accurate recipe for Landlord. Have seen a couple but naaawww. BTW was in York a couple of years back and spent an afternoon at a brewery. Can't remember the name but it made a beer called, I think, Centurion. Their whole line was beer heaven. Does anyone have recipes for some Yorkshire beers. I have loved everyone I ever drank! Oh yeah, the brewery seemed to be in a low area. We walked downhill going and staggered uphill back to the hotel.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

I made one a couple of years ago that was really good. Unfortunately I lost all of my Beersmith recipes a few months ago so this is only from memory (but would be quite close).
96% Maris Otter (GP is probably a better option)
4% Simpsons Dark Crystal
OG 1.042 to 1.045
Mash at 152F
EKG for bittering
1.5 g/L Styrian Goldings at Flameout
Aim for 30IBU
WY1469 (West Yorkshire Ale)

 

[HTH1975]

I would love a more or less accurate recipe for Landlord. Have seen a couple but naaawww. BTW was in York a couple of years back and spent an afternoon at a brewery. Can't remember the name but it made a beer called, I think, Centurion. Their whole line was beer heaven. Does anyone have recipes for some Yorkshire beers. I have loved everyone I ever drank! Oh yeah, the brewery seemed to be in a low area. We walked downhill going and staggered uphill back to the hotel.

Yep, that’s the one - it’s just called York Brewery. Glad you liked the beers. They’re not my recipes, they were put together in the 1990s when the brewery opened.

 

[ong]

I just brewed a best bitter with GP, a few oz of homemade GP crystal malt, and 3/4 lb homemade invert syrup... hopped with half EKG and half Bramling X, and fermenting with WLP037, Yorkshire Square (closed fermentation, though). Will post tasting notes in a few days.

 

[cyberbackpacker]

I too just brewed a small ~2.5 gallon batch of best bitter... Used some GP, Chevallier, Torrified Wheat, and some No. 2 Invert (pictured). Use Fuggles, Willamette, and First Gold. WY1469 for the yeast with a good dose of pure O2. Will probably dry hop in cask/polypin with EKG or First Gold.

I was shooting for 1.041 but came in at 1.045. So I'll curious to see where this will end up. This was brewed to be my "drinking" (i.e. session) beer for the holidays.

Invert No.2

Wort post-cooling-- color is spot on for what I was shooting for!

 

[ong]

Nice! This is a wort sample from mine (on the light side for a bitter, but I like these low gravity golden bitters).

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I would love a more or less accurate recipe for Landlord. Have seen a couple but naaawww. BTW was in York a couple of years back and spent an afternoon at a brewery. Can't remember the name but it made a beer called, I think, Centurion. Their whole line was beer heaven. Does anyone have recipes for some Yorkshire beers. I have loved everyone I ever drank!

Sounds like Centurion's Ghost by York Brewery? I was always a fan of Terrier back in the day.

Thing with Yorkshire beers, the recipe is only half the story - so much is in the yeast, the water and process. None of the big US homebrew yeast labs really have a proper Yorkshire yeast in their core range, WLP037 and WLP038 are the only ones that come close but they're Vault strains, your best bet is Brewlab.

But in general keep the BU:GU up above 0.80, keep the water pretty minerally, attenuate well, don't overdo the crystal and balance it with the same amount of sugar/invert/syrup, use a characterful yeast.

So @HTH1975 would that be a brewery so traditional that all its cask output is in wood?

 

[deere322]

On the topic of invert, I'm curious as to when one adds it to the boil.
I've added it with 20 minutes left in the boil.
Others have added it with 60 minutes left.

Is there a "best" time to add it?

 

[ba-brewer]

Thing with Yorkshire beers, the recipe is only half the story - so much is in the yeast, the water and process. None of the big US homebrew yeast labs really have a proper Yorkshire yeast in their core range, WLP037 and WLP038 are the only ones that come close but they're Vault strains, your best bet is Brewlab.

I have poking around at the brewlabs web page for a little while and it seems the homebrew yeast section is not reachable or broken. Sent a couple emails but no response. Does it work for you?

 

[Derp]

I have poking around at the brewlabs web page for a little while and it seems the homebrew yeast section is not reachable or broken. Sent a couple emails but no response. Does it work for you?

I'm having the same trouble. I sent an email with some questions 5 days ago but haven't received a response.

 

[ong]

On the topic of invert, I'm curious as to when one adds it to the boil.
I've added it with 20 minutes left in the boil.
Others have added it with 60 minutes left.

Is there a "best" time to add it?

I generally add at flameout, since it’s dense enough to drop to the bottom and scorch before dissolving. I’ve also added during a dry hop addition, to help scavenge oxygen introduced with the hops.

 

[HTH1975]

So @HTH1975 would that be a brewery so traditional that all its cask output is in wood?

Nope, not Sam Smiths (or Theakstons for that matter). I brew for York Brewery. Terrier is probably my fave too - ESB territory.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I have poking around at the brewlabs web page for a little while and it seems the homebrew yeast section is not reachable or broken. Sent a couple emails but no response. Does it work for you?

I got what I wanted from them at the weekend - but that was face to face, as they had made the trip down to London for Brewcon. It wouldn't surprise me if they were staying down for the Brewers' Congress this week, so they may be a bit slow to respond to emails. Alison did imply she's a bit swamped at the moment.

Apparently the homebrew yeast section of the store is down at the moment as they're moving to a new website and something has broken en route, but I guess emails should work.

 

[cyberbackpacker]

On the topic of invert, I'm curious as to when one adds it to the boil.
I've added it with 20 minutes left in the boil.
Others have added it with 60 minutes left.

Is there a "best" time to add it?

I too add mine at the end of boil-- typically with 5 minutes remaining.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Nope, not Sam Smiths (or Theakstons for that matter). I brew for York Brewery.

Ah, gotcha, I'd read it as you had gone from there to somewhere else. Out of interest, can I ask what yeast you use?

As for 3g/l dry hop being crazy - Cloudwater use 24g/l....

 

[ba-brewer]

I got what I wanted from them at the weekend - but that was face to face, as they had made the trip down to London for Brewcon. It wouldn't surprise me if they were staying down for the Brewers' Congress this week, so they may be a bit slow to respond to emails. Alison did imply she's a bit swamped at the moment.

Apparently the homebrew yeast section of the store is down at the moment as they're moving to a new website and something has broken en route, but I guess emails should work.

Thanks for the information, I only emailed the "info" address so maybe that is a low on the priority list. Good to know it is a procedural/update thing, I will wait it out a bit longer.

Any recommendations for a brewlabs northern yeasts that are not +POF or maybe just something else interesting that is not available from whitelabs/wyeast.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I’m on a bit of a UK POF+ kick at the moment so you’re probably better off asking @bierhaus15 but I know a number of people using CC as a (very vigorous) house strain, and F40 is meant to be super-fruity.

I’m sure we haven’t discovered the best of them yet, they have so many. It would be worth asking if they have the Holts yeast - a very mundane brewery but the yeast has spread around some of the most successful of the new wave of British breweries. The legendary James Kemp sings its praises here : http://www.port66.co.uk/yeast-brewing-myths-ideal-house-strain/