English Ales - What's your favorite recipe?

[jwalk4]

I think going to 158F may help. It shouldn't add sweetness so much directly, because you are reducing the effectiveness of beta-amylase that turns the less sweet long chain sugars produced by the alpha-amylase into the sweet tasting and fermentable short chain sugars. It'll also be important to do a mash out to stop the enzymes at 60 minutes (you might go shorter on the mash as well, depending on how effective your conversion is at 60 minutes).

You should be able to get fairly close to cask carbonation levels on a keg kept at 55F, and pushed through a very short wide line by the lowest setting you can use on the CO2 regulator without getting bored waiting for your glass to fill. Better is a polypin or cask with cask breather though (you probably won't get through it fast enough to risk not using a cask breather).

My personal method is a Speidel fermenter used as a cask, with a low pressure LPG regulator used as a cask breather. I need to get a couple of the Speidel add-ons (dip tube/tap and gas in post for the top fitting) from NorCalBrewingSolutions to really get the cask thing working though.

Thanks for the thorough response.

I brewed this one up and kegged it last week. Turned out pretty good, but still not replicated cask ale, I'm afraid.

7/10

Anyways, I move into my new house in July with a cold cellar which will be perfect for cask ale. However, a new beer engine will run me between $400-700 bucks here in Ontario. So I'm looking to create my own featuring something like below. It's a hand pump water facet from an RV supply store and costs like $40-60 bucks. The only drawback is that it takes like 8-10 pumps to fill a pint glass.

Actually, I'd like some opinions if anyone has any.

 

[dyqik]

I'd say skip the pump, which will also need to be cleaned between serving sessions, as air will get into it, and go to gravity serving from polypin or cask. I'm dubious about beer engines for the same reason - pubs have to clean them, and their lines, daily, although home use might not need quite as much cleaning. Keeping the lines and pump at >55F could be pretty bad for mold and bug growth.

$65 (US) will get you a 20l Speidel to use as a cask (plus $15 for an LPG regulator and barbs and $10 for a second spigot for the Speidel), or ~4 5-gal cubitainers to use as polypins.

The one reason I would consider a beer engine is if I had to keep my beer in fridges at ground level and so needed to get the beer up to the glass. I also have a 55F basement for 9 months of the year (gets up to 70F in summer), so I just serve from on top of the kegerator.

 

[jwalk4]

I'd say skip the pump, which will also need to be cleaned between serving sessions, as air will get into it, and go to gravity serving from polypin or cask. I'm dubious about beer engines for the same reason - pubs have to clean them, and their lines, daily, although home use might not need quite as much cleaning. Keeping the lines and pump at >55F could be pretty bad for mold and bug growth.

$65 (US) will get you a 20l Speidel to use as a cask (plus $15 for an LPG regulator and barbs and $10 for a second spigot for the Speidel), or ~4 5-gal cubitainers to use as polypins.

The one reason I would consider a beer engine is if I had to keep my beer in fridges at ground level and so needed to get the beer up to the glass. I also have a 55F basement for 9 months of the year (gets up to 70F in summer), so I just serve from on top of the kegerator.

I appreciate the honesty. I am usually wary of plastics.

How do you find your results with the Speidel? Comparable to pub style real ale?

PS. I'd really appreciate if you posted some pics of your setup. Whenever you find the time.

 

[dyqik]

I put a picture of it towards the bottom of this thread.

I want to replace the top spigot with a ball-lock gas in and pressure relief valve from Jaybird - see here, and fit the bottom spigot with a diptube. I bought the one recommended here, but haven't fitted it yet, as I don't have a blanking cap (I already drilled that for a gas in valve that didn't work out).

Oh, and 0.4psi from the LPG regulator, plus gravity, is probably enough to drive a sparkler if you're Northern enough to want one (we don't use them in the south of England).

 

[jwalk4]

@dyqik

Could I install something like this the side of a corney keg and serve from that?

I wonder if the circumference of the keg is too tight for the o-rings to seal.

 

[dyqik]

@dyqik

Could I install something like this the side of a corney keg and serve from that?

I wonder if the circumference of the keg is too tight for the o-rings to seal.

I think drilling the keg would probably flatten it out enough. But that's enough of a hassle that you'd be better off just buying a polypin.

And a 20l speidel is about the same price as a second hand corney, which you'd have to use at least one of to get that right.

 

[jwalk4]

Point well made.

 

[MaryB]

Maybe something like this with a serving spigot added? http://www.plastic-mart.com/product/9429/houston-sp0005-rt

 

[markstache]

And a 20l speidel is about the same price as a second hand corney, which you'd have to use at least one of to get that right.

At price parity, I'd favor stainless. What about inverting the keg and dispensing from the gas "in" post?

 

[jwalk4]

At price parity, I'd favor stainless. What about inverting the keg and dispensing from the gas "in" post?

I will be doing something like that, probably. Maybe make myself a shelf and keep a few (2) 2.5 gallon corneys up there like an old school cellar.

 

[deere322]

I'm such an idiot.

I brewed up Timothy Taylor Landlord yesterday. Weighed out my grain starting with Baird's pale then a small amount of black, .9 oz to be exact.

But instead of .9 oz, I weighed out 9 oz. Not thinking once that I had incorrectly read my recipe and not even thinking that 9 oz of black was WAY too much.



After mashing for an hour and half, I drain my my mash tun. It pours out coal black, WTF. Then I realize my mistake and cursed for the remainder of the day.

Surprisingly, this turned out fantastic!
Black is not over powering at all.

 

[Hanglow]

Good to hear

I was able to brew for the first time in months today, I wanted to use my first ever homegrown hops so I made a simple golden ale. Bit of a bastard of a recipe - Belgian pils malt, german carahell, british torrified wheat, american yeast/bittering hop and scottish grown mittelfruh hops


OG 1.046
30 to 40 IBU
88.4 % Pilsner malt
8.4 % carahell
3.2 % Torrified wheat

15g warrior@ 60mins
50g Hallertau mittelfruh 20mins
50g Hallertau mittelfruh 5mins


Step mash, 60mins@ 61c 45mins @ 71C

BRY97

 

[JKaranka]

Surprisingly, this turned out fantastic!
Black is not over powering at all.

Sounds like you created Landlord's Porter! Patent is great at low amounts (very clean). At around 1/2lb it does show a good, clean, if not a bit simple roast note.

 

[MSK_Chess]

I have brewd the following clones,

Boddingtons Bitter - this was brilliant when it first came out commercially. It was luscious and creamy but latterly i cant say what happened, it became quite dull and bland. My home-brew version was also very average.
Sarah Hughes Dark Ruby - a fantastic beer with quite a strong gravity for a British beer. Very easy to make in homebrew. Just pale malt and crystal malt. Has a fantastic ruby colour.
Batemans Victory Ale - This uses the same hops as Timothy Taylor only some crystal malt. Very tasty beer.
Courage Directors - this used Target hops and a small amount of Styrian goldings for dry hoping, very satisfying english bitter.
Marstons EPA - This is an interesting beer to try to make. When I bought it from the store I noticed that it had citrus fruit notes and must confess that it could only have come from an American hop like Cascade or something similar. Styrian goldings can give citrus flavours but nothings like American hops.
Timothy Taylor Landlord - My house bitter. Very satisfying beer. Uses a very small amount of black patent malt merely for colour and lots of Styrian Goldings
Worthington white shield - this is a classic English IPA and very pleasant to drink.

 

[MSK_Chess]

Good to hear

I was able to brew for the first time in months today, I wanted to use my first ever homegrown hops so I made a simple golden ale. Bit of a bastard of a recipe - Belgian pils malt, german carahell, british torrified wheat, american yeast/bittering hop and scottish grown mittelfruh hops


OG 1.046
30 to 40 IBU
88.4 % Pilsner malt
8.4 % carahell
3.2 % Torrified wheat

15g warrior@ 60mins
50g Hallertau mittelfruh 20mins
50g Hallertau mittelfruh 5mins


Step mash, 60mins@ 61c 45mins @ 71C

BRY97

you managed to grow hops in Glasgow, thats amazing! how did they turn out? did you use a greenhouse or southfacing wall or anything special?

 

[deere322]

Sounds like you created Landlord's Porter! Patent is great at low amounts (very clean). At around 1/2lb it does show a good, clean, if not a bit simple roast note.

I named it Timothy Taylor Darklord!

 

[trav77]

I have brewd the following clones,

Timothy Taylor Landlord - My house bitter. Very satisfying beer. Uses a very small amount of black patent malt merely for colour and lots of Styrian Goldings

Care to share the recipe for your Landlord clone? I had it for the first time a couple weeks ago and I think it's superior to Fullers which was previously the only quality bitter you can get around here.

 

[MaryB]

I am growing hops in Minnesota... I would think Glasgow would be at least as warm...

you managed to grow hops in Glasgow, thats amazing! how did they turn out? did you use a greenhouse or southfacing wall or anything special?

 

[Hanglow]

you managed to grow hops in Glasgow, thats amazing! how did they turn out? did you use a greenhouse or southfacing wall or anything special?

They were a first year plant from Willingham Nurseries, I planted it in my allotment in a large tub outside, using potting mix. I managed to get 220g dried which I wasn't expecting for a first year.

Fuggles have been grown on contract recently in the Clyde valley, it's just that we are a bit too far north/windy/wet etc to make it commercially viable to grow them, but yeah you can grow them at home. There's also a bunch of First Golds in the herb garden at the Botanic Gardens in the west end, was tempted to try and nick the cones last year as they were going to go to waste

I also got a centennial rhizome this year, it's growing a bit slower so I'm not expecting anything from it

I think the key is to get early flowering ones too

 

[Hanglow]

I am growing hops in Minnesota... I would think Glasgow would be at least as warm...

We are a bit further north than Minnesota but have a very different climate - Much cooler summers and much warmer winters here thanks to the gulf stream. Always wet though

 

[MSK_Chess]

Care to share the recipe for your Landlord clone? I had it for the first time a couple weeks ago and I think it's superior to Fullers which was previously the only quality bitter you can get around here.

Sure. Its a very simple recipe. The brewery itself uses three hops from what I can tell from watching videos. Fuggles, Whitbread Goldings and Styrian Goldings. They also use their own yeast and exclusively Golden Promise pale malt. Here is my recipe based on one published in the UK by Graham Wheeler.


Timothy Taylor Landlord - Special/Best/Premium Bitter
================================================================================
Batch Size: 23.000 L (5 gallon)
Boil Time: 90 min
Efficiency: 75%
OG: 1.045
FG: 1.011
ABV: 4.4%
Bitterness: 33.4 IBUs (Tinseth)
Color: 8 SRM (Morey)

Fermentables
================================================================================
Pale Malt (2 Row) 4.5 kg (10 lbs)
Black (Patent) Malt 35g (1.2oz)
Acid Malt 70g (2.4 oz)

Hops
================================================================================
Kent Goldings 5.4% 32g (1.2oz) 90 min 17.5 IBU's
Styrian Goldings 4.2% 32g (1.2oz) 90 min 13.6 IBU's
Styrian Goldings 4.2% 30g (1 oz) 10 min 4.3 IBU's

Mash
================================================================================
Infusion @ 66 Celsuis (151F) 90 min
Mash out @ 75 Celsuis (167F) 15.000 min

Water Profile
================================================================================
Ca 56
Mg 6
Na 5
SO4 71
Cl 60
HCO3 37
SO4/Cl Ratio 1.2

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Cak4stt9v4[/ame]

 

[MSK_Chess]

They were a first year plant from Willingham Nurseries, I planted it in my allotment in a large tub outside, using potting mix. I managed to get 220g dried which I wasn't expecting for a first year.

Fuggles have been grown on contract recently in the Clyde valley, it's just that we are a bit too far north/windy/wet etc to make it commercially viable to grow them, but yeah you can grow them at home. There's also a bunch of First Golds in the herb garden at the Botanic Gardens in the west end, was tempted to try and nick the cones last year as they were going to go to waste

I also got a centennial rhizome this year, it's growing a bit slower so I'm not expecting anything from it

I think the key is to get early flowering ones too

Well well! The Botanical Gardens you say! If you read in The Herald of someone being chased up Queen Margaret Drive with hop cones spilling out in all directions you will know tis I!

Seriously I always wondered that because of climate change we might be able to make a go of it here. I thought of planting in a greenhouse and training the hops all around it like a vine. I also have a south facing wall that is fairly protected and could be used.

Early flowering ones. makes sense!

 

[Hanglow]

One of the forummers on JBK analysed the mineral content of bottled LL on a hunch that the reason why a lot of people couldn't clone it that well was because the liquor was a bit different than what people expect

He worked out that chloride was around 131 and sulphate 102

Also the bottled beer is quite a bit different to the cask version, although I don't know if there's any other differences beyond the strength and pasteurisation . would be interesting to try them side by side

 

[MSK_Chess]

One of the forummers on JBK analysed the mineral content of bottled LL on a hunch that the reason why a lot of people couldn't clone it that well was because the liquor was a bit different than what people expect

He worked out that chloride was around 131 and sulphate 102

Also the bottled beer is quite a bit different to the cask version, although I don't know if there's any other differences beyond the strength and pasteurisation . would be interesting to try them side by side

Interesting. I tried to source the water profile for Keliegh itself but it would not make any difference because they have their own private water source and it gets boiled anyway. The head-brewer also let slip that they mash at 60 Celsius which is a bit low from what most home brewers do but would return a fairly fermentable wort. Also they have their own yeast which I think is a mix of two earlier yeasts (forget which ones) and open ferment which gotta produce some interesting esters. Adding all the salts to the mash is an interesting technique and the brilliant 'Brew n water' allows calculations to do just that. I would not add them whole though, Calcium chloride needs to be dissolved in a blender. Next time I brew it I am gonna ramp up the chloride and sulphate to see if it makes any difference. I bet fresh whole hops make a difference too.

 

[Qhrumphf]

One of the forummers on JBK analysed the mineral content of bottled LL on a hunch that the reason why a lot of people couldn't clone it that well was because the liquor was a bit different than what people expect

He worked out that chloride was around 131 and sulphate 102

Also the bottled beer is quite a bit different to the cask version, although I don't know if there's any other differences beyond the strength and pasteurisation . would be interesting to try them side by side

Problem with this approach is that minerals come from other ingredients too, and the finished beer comp and starting water comp often have little in common. Not that it's bad data, but one needs to be careful extrapolating from it.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Interesting. I tried to source the water profile for Keliegh itself but it would not make any difference because they have their own private water source and it gets boiled anyway. The head-brewer also let slip that they mash at 60 Celsius which is a bit low from what most home brewers do but would return a fairly fermentable wort. Also they have their own yeast which I think is a mix of two earlier yeasts (forget which ones) and open ferment which gotta produce some interesting esters. Adding all the salts to the mash is an interesting technique and the brilliant 'Brew n water' allows calculations to do just that. I would not add them whole though, Calcium chloride needs to be dissolved in a blender. Next time I brew it I am gonna ramp up the chloride and sulphate to see if it makes any difference. I bet fresh whole hops make a difference too.

Specific hop sourcing and even hop lots matter, and I imagine are hand selected by the brewery. Part of my issue trying to clone Coniston Bluebird was getting the hop character right, which I have a feeling that their hop source is one I don't have access to despite the same varietals.

 

[Griffin495]

Hops
================================================================================
Kent Goldings 5.4% 32g (1.2oz) 90 min 17.5 IBU's
Styrian Goldings 4.2% 32g (1.2oz) 90 min 13.6 IBU's
Styrian Goldings 4.2% 30g (10z) 10 min 4.3 IBU's

Just a clarification on the hops, your last addition at 10 minutes, that's supposed to be 1.0oz right? Not 10oz? I saw 10 and it seems like a ton, but then I see you have 30g and that lines up with about 1.06oz. I just don't want anybody to read that and get confused. Sounds like a great recipe.

 

[MSK_Chess]

Just a clarification on the hops, your last addition at 10 minutes, that's supposed to be 1.0oz right? Not 10oz? I saw 10 and it seems like a ton, but then I see you have 30g and that lines up with about 1.06oz. I just don't want anybody to read that and get confused. Sounds like a great recipe.

sure I missed out the decimal point, my mistake, 30g or 1oz USA for last hop addition, will fix it now Yes its a very simple recipe, the black patent malt is purely for colouring and adds a kind of whisky like colour to the beer. Just what one would need on a cracks-in-the-road scorching hot Texas summers day!

 

[Hanglow]

Problem with this approach is that minerals come from other ingredients too, and the finished beer comp and starting water comp often have little in common. Not that it's bad data, but one needs to be careful extrapolating from it.

He accounted for that, he's the go-to person for water analysis there. fwiw the finished beer had 283ppm chloride and 153ppm sulphate

 

[MSK_Chess]

He accounted for that, he's the go-to person for water analysis there. fwiw the finished beer had 283ppm chloride and 153ppm sulphate

thats quite unusual, i cannot find any place with a water profile like that, even the extreme ones like Burton and Dortmund have a lot of sulphur in comparison to chloride.