English Ales - What's your favorite recipe?

[lowtones84]

Here's something new I want to try: Export India Porter. http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2012/11/lets-brew-special-1859-barclay-perkins.html

This is for a 4 gallon BIAB as per my usual. I know it's not a common style, but anyone have suggestions? I don't think I will be able to find amber malt, but I may give some of my MO a light toast to approximate. Maybe a touch of flaked barley or torrefied wheat for head retention?

Est OG: 1.068
Est IBU: 89

6 lb. Crisp MO
2 lb. Brown Malt
4 oz. Black patent
1 lb. invert #2

.75 oz. Challenger @ 90 min.
.5 oz. Challenger, .5 oz. EKG @ 60 min.
.25 oz. Challenger, .25 oz. EKG @ 30 min. (Fuggles maybe?)
Dry hop-about 1 oz Challenger and/or EKG

Might brew this weekend. What say ye, fine gentlemen?

 

[Wolfdust]

Northern brewer has amber malt I think. If you are brewing authentic use fuggle or ekg maybe.

 

[JKaranka]

I've done India Porter, very similar one actually. I think I used mellow hops I had at hand. Very good, the character changes a lot with aging due to the mix of Brown malt (ages gracefully) and dry hopping (fades slowly away).

Edited: I found the recipe I used here (OG 1.059, 68 IBU)

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=510963

Edited 2: If I brew this one again I'd reduce the Brown malt to 2-2.5lb, add 0.5lb Amber malt, increase the Black Patent to 4oz. I'd keep an OG around 1.055-1.060.

 

[JKaranka]

Here's something new I want to try: Export India Porter. http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2012/11/lets-brew-special-1859-barclay-perkins.html

Lol, that's pretty much exactly the perfect porter / stout grist. I've been experimenting for a year and I ended up brewing the same malts in the same ratio and to an OG of 1.065. Didn't dry hop. Drunk one yesterday and it was amazing!

 

[lowtones84]

Nice, glad to hear it worked out for you. I'm a little hesitant at the IBU number, but looking at that barclay perkins recipe, it was probably 89 or higher honestly. For the amber malt I may sub a little biscuit, or toast my own as I mentioned, though it might be a bit late for that.

As far as the hops, I'm not -too- worried about being authentic. For the 90 minute addition I might even consider some Centennial I've had at the back of the freezer for a while since pretty much any characteristic flavor or aroma should be quite gone by then.

 

[lowtones84]

LHBS had Crisp amber malt, but did not have black patent. Chocolate malt, dark crystal, or roasted barley to replace? Roasted barley would technically put it more in the stout category, yes? Not that I'm too worried about it...

 

[patto1ro]

LHBS had Crisp amber malt, but did not have black patent. Chocolate malt, dark crystal, or roasted barley to replace? Roasted barley would technically put it more in the stout category, yes? Not that I'm too worried about it...

Roasted barley.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Hmmm....not sure you can really sub for black patent. The characters of roasted barley, black patent, and chocolate malts are all quite different, and they're all even further from dark crystal malts. If they don't have black patent, I'd probably go Carafa III if they had that.

 

[JKaranka]

The patent is mainly colour correction but it gives a more roast, sharp edge. Either a very dark chocolate or a carafa in higher quantities could do.

 

[Qhrumphf]

True, 4 oz in 4 gallons is not particularly huge, but I find the sharpness of black patent is different from the sharpness of roasted barley, and I don't get much sharpness from chocolate malt. I'd still recommend a very dark Carafa.

 

[lowtones84]

Yeah, carafa isn't happening at this point. I feel it's mostly for color adjustment as well, though that sharpness is certainly a part of it. I will most likely go with the chocolate as what I have is quite dark. Won't be the exact same recipe, but still accurate for a porter grist. With brown and amber malts in there as well I don't see a way that it won't be delicious

 

[JKaranka]

Yeah, carafa isn't happening at this point. I feel it's mostly for color adjustment as well, though that sharpness is certainly a part of it. I will most likely go with the chocolate as what I have is quite dark. Won't be the exact same recipe, but still accurate for a porter grist. With brown and amber malts in there as well I don't see a way that it won't be delicious

You have my guarantee that a porter where the main driver for flavour is Brown malt, complemented with a small bite of some type of very roast malt is absolutely the way to go! You'll get layers of complex flavour out of that one!

 

[jwalk4]

You have my guarantee that a porter where the main driver for flavour is Brown malt, complemented with a small bite of some type of very roast malt is absolutely the way to go! You'll get layers of complex flavour out of that one!

Love using Brown malt. Like liquid toffee.

 

[lowtones84]

You have my guarantee that a porter where the main driver for flavour is Brown malt, complemented with a small bite of some type of very roast malt is absolutely the way to go! You'll get layers of complex flavour out of that one!

Yeah, I've never used a full two pounds, but sounds good to me. Now the question is: WLP023 (Burton ale yeast) or WLP013 (London ale yeast)? The shop was having a sale on "expired" white labs vials and I couldn't help picking up a few I haven't tried before...

Thanks for all the input, gents

 

[JKaranka]

Lowtones, just for info, I've transcribed the recipe of my finest stout (London stout, OG 1.065), which has a very similar grist. I've converted from Imperial to US measures, so you get some 2.3lb type stuff. It would work well with a bigger 15/20m charge and dry hopping, but I really enjoy all the complex malt flavours coming out of the Brown / Amber malts.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=556059

 

[lowtones84]

Nice, that's very close to what I'm going with except for the black patent, and a little less percentage of amber malt. I'm also going big on the hops for the Export India Porter style Looks delicious though!

 

[JKaranka]

Yeah, it's very good. When I did export India I went for a lower OG (1.056 or such), less Patent Malt as well, higher IBU relative to strength and quite a hefty dry hop. I prefer this latest stout but I've had very good India Porters by commercial breweries.

 

[lowtones84]

Welp, ended up with an OG of 1.074 instead, but I suspect that it reads .002-4 high anyhow from before after measuring distilled water. Recipe ended up being:

5.5 lbs. MO
2 lb. Brown malt
.5 lb. Amber malt
4 oz. Chocolate malt
1 lb. invert #2
(Mash @ 152F for 60 min)

.5 oz. Centennial @ 90 minutes (A little non traditional perhaps...)
.5 oz. Challenger, .5 oz. EKG @ 60
.25 oz. Challenger, .25 oz. EKG @ 30
.38 oz. Bramling Cross, .2 oz. Challenger, .25 oz. EKG -Low Hopstand (110F whoops, cold ground water) for 45 mi.

Pitch 1L starter WLP023 (Burton) @ 70F

The Barclay Perkins article said shove hops in, so I did Sample wort was bitter of course, but also delicious.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Nice. Sampling my Pale Mild (think I sent @JKaranka the recipe via PM). It's tasty, but nowhere near as good as my normal Dark Mild, but allegedly they never are.

I picked up a boatload of hops I can't normally get from my LHBS. Freezer filled with Bramling Cross, Phoenix, Progress, WGV, and so on. Planning on making 16 lbs of invert during vacation in December (4 lbs each of #1-4) and then going crazy with the more traditional Bitters and Milds through the first half of next year, see how far I can take a pitch of 1469, planning to top crop quite a few and harvest yeast cake for the rest, maybe 20 total batches out of one pack. Bunch of Mild malt on hand, that my LHBS doesn't stock. Going to stock up on the Brown and Amber malts too (Brown for a few porters and stouts) that I actually CAN get from my LHBS. Should be fun.

 

[lowtones84]

That sounds like a great schedule. The mild that ended up being a little more like a brown ale from a few pages back turned out really nice. The 1 gallon poly at the party was great, but 3 more weeks of age has done it well. I have a mild/brown recipe I like, a house bitter that I like that I can tweak here and there, so I'm happy with my foray into English styles so far. Not that I've mastered anything, but I'm happy with the product and process.

So after all of those more sessionable beers I did a Barleywine and this Export Porter back to back. Whoops

 

[Qhrumphf]

That sounds like a great schedule. The mild that ended up being a little more like a brown ale from a few pages back turned out really nice. The 1 gallon poly at the party was great, but 3 more weeks of age has done it well. I have a mild/brown recipe I like, a house bitter that I like that I can tweak here and there, so I'm happy with my foray into English styles so far. Not that I've mastered anything, but I'm happy with the product and process.

So after all of those more sessionable beers I did a Barleywine and this Export Porter back to back. Whoops

I tend to start with a session beer, and then repitch into another session beer and a stronger beer, and then repeat from the session beer, and so on and so forth.

 

[lowtones84]

Yeah, I used a repitch of 007 from said brown ale for the barleywine. Considering the barleywine was 1.090, I think I'll probably just let that yeast go when it's done.

Looking forward to the results from WLP023. Anybody have much experience with it?

 

[Qhrumphf]

I used it a couple times while trying to nail down a Coniston clone (after reading from a few unverified sources that it might be the strain they use). It's close, but not as close as what I get out of a bottle, so I've since started culturing. It's a good strain, I liked it, but not as much as 1469, so I probably won't be using it again unless I have a specific purpose to. If I recall correctly, behavior is pretty typical, moderately low attenuating unless you mash low or use a bunch of sugar, and fermented fast and hard, and dropped bright pretty quickly.

 

[Hanglow]

I've used WPL023 for my last three brews, I found it takes a few weeks to drop bright. A bit too murky when bottled despite chilling for a day or two at the end of primary. Very large krausen and can be a bit sulphury during fermentation . Attenuation was 74% first generation bitter, 76% second generation stout, 79% second generation bitter (this was overpitched though I think).

It has a definate mineral quality to it, or it accentuates mineral quality more than other yeasts I've used. I prefer the other White Labs yeasts I've used more of , wlp002 and wlp013.

 

[jcav]

This is an amazing thread. Thanks to the op and all who have contributed. I have learned so much about making these beers from this thread!

John

 

[DaNewf]

I really like KingBrianI's Common Room ESB. It's been a while since I made a batch so on my way home from work this evening I stopped by the LHBS to get the ingredients. Brew day is tomorrow.

 

[JKaranka]

Planning on doing a WW2 air raid style porter. I've seen the recipe of a Whitbread porter from the early 1940s from the Porter! book. It had 5% Brown Malt, 5% Chocolate Malt and ~10% of a mix of sugars. I'm feeling I'm maybe over complicating the recipe but given my predilection for Brown Malt I've upped it a bit and added a tad of Patent Malt for colour.

For 5 US gallons
OG 1.037, 33IBU

5lb Maris Otter (74%)
1lb Brown Malt (15%)
6oz Chocolate Malt (5%)
4oz Dark Invert Sugar Syrup (4%)
2oz Black Patent Malt (2%)

45 minute boil
45 - 0.75oz Challenger (25IBU)
15 - 0.5oz Challenger (9IBU)

Brewers' Friend estimates the colour at 27SRM, and I'll up it to 32SRM using 1/2oz of Brewers' Caramel (3500L). I'll most likely use S04 as a yeast.

 

[JKaranka]

That was an easy brewday...

Easy to grind, easy to mash, quick boil. Fairly effective dark wort with a decent hop bite. Looks like it will be in the predicted colour range (30-35SRM).

 

[lowtones84]

Sounds delicious, let us know how it comes out!

 

[unionrdr]

Bottled up the Hellfire IIPA today, cleaned up, got some Thanksgiving supplies too. Then sat down with a couple bottles of the Cooper's English bitter I brewed more like a Fuller's. Perfectly clear, 3 finger head, nice light carbonation at 2.1 Vco2. I finally found a carbonation level that seems right for this ale. Plus switching to 3lbs of plain extra light Muntons DME. Kind of a ruddy amber this time. Even the malt flavor is better with the extra light DME. Tasty for a quicky. Here's a shot of the usual Cooper's English bitter with Munton's plain light DME & EKG. Dark & malty with less noticeable bittering & not much head;

Here's the newest batch with Munton's plain extra light DME & EKG. Lighter ruddy amber color & better head. Toasted bread with caramel & bittering shining through more;