English Ales - What's your favorite recipe?

[InspectorJon]

No love for Nottingham?

 

[Halfakneecap]

No love for Nottingham?

No, i love how it rips through in an instant, but i get the tartness some people find with it.

I used both S04 and nottingham for a while before using White labs and wyeast strains. There were definately beers with Notto and S04 i enjoyed, but once i tried the liquid strains i never went back. I had a break for a few years and when i came back, i tried Verdant. Really like it.

Actually the same with lagers. I used to use liquid strains, but now i like S189 and S23. I still use liquid strains, but for specific beers.

 

[Pennine]

No, i love how it rips through in an instant, but i get the tartness some people find with it.

I used both S04 and nottingham for a while before using White labs and wyeast strains. There were definately beers with Notto and S04 i enjoyed, but once i tried the liquid strains i never went back. I had a break for a few years and when i came back, i tried Verdant. Really like it.

Actually the same with lagers. I used to use liquid strains, but now i like S189 and S23. I still use liquid strains, but for specific beers.

Thanks I am always curious why some don't like dry yeast as much as liquid. I have had good and bad experiences with both but tend to lean dry as I don't like to plan very far into the future.

@Miraculix what is it you don't care for in dry that makes liquid superior?

 

[Colindo]

Thanks I am always curious why some don't like dry yeast as much as liquid. I have had good and bad experiences with both but tend to lean dry as I don't like to plan very far into the future.

@Miraculix what is it you don't care for in dry that makes liquid superior?

You just never get everything you need from one yeast. Nottingham has great flocculation and attenuation, but no flavour. S-04 is a tad more balanced, but still quite neutral. S-33, Windsor and the discontinued London have far too low attenuation. Verdant is great aroma-wise and gives a decent attenuation, but sediments only if you brew under a full moon. Some of the other low attenuators also seem to hate flocculation.

If you go for something like Wyeast 1469, 1968, 1332 or 1028 you get great performance in all three: Tons of flavour, good to extreme flocculation, and great attenuation.

 

[Miraculix]

Thanks I am always curious why some don't like dry yeast as much as liquid. I have had good and bad experiences with both but tend to lean dry as I don't like to plan very far into the future.

@Miraculix what is it you don't care for in dry that makes liquid superior?

Flavour. I really like notty and s04, it is just that they do not bring much Flavour. Verdant brings flavour, but that flavour is just disgusting. Except in US hop centered beers, there it is just lovely. But not in a UK ale.

 

[Halfakneecap]

On a related note, when i started, US05 was kind of it. I used it with no issues. Then i went to other yeast. I tried US05 a few years ago after a few years away from brewing. It would have been at least a decade since id used it. Peach bomb, i did not like it at all, and don't remember ever getting any peach from it when i used it many years ago. It was a bit confusing.

We all have different taste i guess.

 

[day_trippr]

Running US-05 cold can do that nasty peach thing. I don't use it much, preferring BRY-97, but when I do I keep it above 63°F...

Cheers!

 

[Pennine]

Well I pitched a pack of Omega British Ale 1 supposedly it's 1098 or Whitbread. Meant to pick up Fullers... Guess I'll be able to compare it with the bitter I did with S-04.

Well this makes it seem more like it's Boddingtons or Timothy Taylors? Hmm

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Well I pitched a pack of Omega British Ale 1 supposedly it's 1098 or Whitbread. Meant to pick up Fullers... Guess I'll be able to compare it with the bitter I did with S-04.

Well this makes it seem more like it's Boddingtons or Timothy Taylors? Hmm

For one thing - don't put too much faith in the traditional assignments of lab yeasts to breweries, and don't assume that genetically close strains taste the same. You share half your DNA with each of your parents (and the rest is 95+% the same) - but you differ in pretty major ways from one of them! There's a good example in yeast- T-58 is a close cousin of S-33/Windsor, but has the POF gene cassette which is a small bit of DNA that adds a ton of phenolic flavours to its arsenal.

 

[kmarkstevens]

Well this makes it seem more like it's Boddingtons

In my experience, Manchester Ale get's you very close to Boddy's. If you haven't seen this and want to do a Boddinton's, then Tony's Pre-1970 Boddington's Clone Recipe (boakandbailey.com)

 

[Miraculix]

In my experience, Manchester Ale get's you very close to Boddy's. If you haven't seen this and want to do a Boddinton's, then Tony's Pre-1970 Boddington's Clone Recipe (boakandbailey.com)

Sounds like my type of ale! I'd throw out the corn, upp the wheat a bit but that's it. Nice one. Maybe a more expressive yeast though.... But that's not a must.

 

[Peebee]

It's been resurrected ... Boddington's Cask - beertoday.co.uk

I didn't move to Manchester until late 1980s and missed the "good stuff"? Perhaps explains my dislike for the stuff? Apparently, the yeast changed again about that time (before it shifted to London?). The 1942 yeast, brought in from Tadcaster (John Smith's? I'd hope not!) after Boddington's brewery was hit by WWII bombs, is considered "gone" forever. So, digging out the original yeast is very likely to be a non-starter (and the WWII replacement wasn't the first time it was switched).

As JW Lees produce a decent drop, I'll look forward to trying the Boddington's resurrection one day, but Manchester is a long way away now-days.

 

[warx]

After a trip back home (Ipswich, UK) I am trying to put together ingredients for a Crouch Vale Brewers Gold. Can’t find a shippable UK (or German) version of the hop so the US Brewers Gold will have to do. I can get some Essex yeast - albeit in a 1BBL liquid size which would do me for four batches (not sure it’s worth it yet). Maybe I can store some refrigerated for a month and do a second batch. Been reading mixed recipes - some say Pilsner malt, some say Pale and some adjunct some crystal and a touch of wheat. Anyways, I know I was quite taken with it over my usual local Adnams partaking there.

 

[Pennine]

In my experience, Manchester Ale get's you very close to Boddy's. If you haven't seen this and want to do a Boddinton's, then Tony's Pre-1970 Boddington's Clone Recipe (boakandbailey.com)

Yeah I am adding it to list, reading this and seeing @Bramling Cross drinking one of Ron's recipes is making me curious.

I only have one memorable experience with Boddingtons running the Lakeland 100k and dropping into Glenridding the mini market had the nitro cans. So I bought two and a sandwich. They were heavenly. Probably due to the dehydration and massive lack of calories. Oddly I haven't gone back to it since. I may need to pick up a pack soon.

 

[Bramling Cross]

Yeah I am adding it to list, reading this and seeing @Bramling Cross drinking one of Ron's recipes is making me curious.

I only have one memorable experience with Boddingtons running the Lakeland 100k and dropping into Glenridding the mini market had the nitro cans. So I bought two and a sandwich. They were heavenly. Probably due to the dehydration and massive lack of calories. Oddly I haven't gone back to it since. I may need to pick up a pack soon.

Pattinson's '71 recipe is nothing like today's nitro cans. Don't get me wrong, today's Boddingtons are nice, unobjectionable, fizzy yellow swill pale mild ales. I'm not knocking them, the contemporary nitro cans are great ales to guzzle with food. It's a pleasant, quaffable ale, but it lacks teeth.

The '71 clone is still very approachable and a great ale with food, but it has a bit more malt structure and a much more solid hops backbone. Nevertheless, it's still a 1.039 spud, so don't expect to be overwhelmed. Like all tiny ales, bring your A-game on brew day. It'll highlight all your mistakes. It's a great test of your skill.

Edit: One of the frustrating things about Pattinson's recipes is his complete lack of water guidance. I'm not knocking him, he's simply recording the brewery's logs and the the breweries were using their water. I like to brew this recipe with ~230 sulfate, ~100 calcium. I've found that I like to use a bit of non-iodized table salt in this recipe, to the tune of ~70 sodium and ~120 chloride. The table salt rounds off the ale's sharp edges a bit, makes it feel a bit fatter in the mouth, and more agreeable as an eating ale. Without the non-iodized table salt, it's bit more shrill and more specialized with regards to food. On your first go, brew it without table salt, then spike it with a pinch in the glass. You'll get where I'm coming from right away.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

After a trip back home (Ipswich, UK) I am trying to put together ingredients for a Crouch Vale Brewers Gold. Can’t find a shippable UK (or German) version of the hop so the US Brewers Gold will have to do. I can get some Essex yeast - albeit in a 1BBL liquid size which would do me for four batches (not sure it’s worth it yet). Maybe I can store some refrigerated for a month and do a second batch. Been reading mixed recipes - some say Pilsner malt, some say Pale and some adjunct some crystal and a touch of wheat. Anyways, I know I was quite taken with it over my usual local Adnams partaking there.

Malt Miller have Brewer's Gold and are usually pretty good on shipping - www.themaltmiller.co.uk/product/brewers-gold-pellets/ - it's only really used for bittering lagers these days although it's one of the most influential hops of all for breeding purposes.

Crouch Vale themselves say - "Brewed with 100% extra-pale English barley malt and flavoured with heaps of choicest Brewers Gold hops, sourced with care from small-scale growers in the Hallertau." - they may have used pilsner in the past, or homebrew recipes use pilsner as a hack for people who can't readily get UK extra pale malt.

Crouch Vale have a reputation for being homebrew friendly and giving away their actual yeast to anyone who asks for it, so you might be able to get someone from home (or a local homebrew group) to get some for you? Apparently it originally came from Ridleys but has been repitched continuously since then (which usually means a multistrain).

We talked a bit about it here -
https://www.thehomebrewforum.co.uk/threads/brewers-gold-crouch-vale.86472/

 

[An Ankoù]

After a trip back home (Ipswich, UK) I am trying to put together ingredients for a Crouch Vale Brewers Gold. Can’t find a shippable UK (or German) version of the hop so the US Brewers Gold will have to do. I can get some Essex yeast - albeit in a 1BBL liquid size which would do me for four batches (not sure it’s worth it yet). Maybe I can store some refrigerated for a month and do a second batch. Been reading mixed recipes - some say Pilsner malt, some say Pale and some adjunct some crystal and a touch of wheat. Anyways, I know I was quite taken with it over my usual local Adnams partaking there.

What you need is MO low colour. I don't know if you have an equivalent among US malts. I certainly wouldn't start faffing around with crystal and wheat.
You might try matching the colour by mixing local pilsner and pale malts and you'll probably get a very decent beer. You should be able to get the hops from crossmyloof. They post internationally and are very reasonable.

 

[warx]

What you need is MO low colour. I don't know if you have an equivalent among US malts. I certainly wouldn't start faffing around with crystal and wheat.
You might try matching the colour by mixing local pilsner and pale malts and you'll probably get a very decent beer. You should be able to get the hops from crossmyloof. They post internationally and are very reasonable.

My local Maltster has good fresh pale malts. I have both Gallaghers Best and Maiden Voyage. I made made a Japanese rice lager with the latter (Echigo Clone) so it is light (2.5).

https://admiralmaltings.com/malt/

 

[An Ankoù]

My local Maltster has good fresh pale malts. I have both Gallaghers Best and Maiden Voyage. I made made a Japanese rice lager with the latter (Echigo Clone) so it is light (2.5).

https://admiralmaltings.com/malt/

The Feldblume looks the business.

 

[warx]

I did order some Brewers Gold already - says a clone of English and Canadian (?)

Also, here is the yeast I am thinking about - says Ridleys based. A lot for my 26L batch - but maybe I can save for short while to remake another. Looks like year-round availability (since its for the industry not the hobbyist!)
https://realbrewersyeast.com/products/essex-ale

 

[jwill911]

My local Maltster has good fresh pale malts. I have both Gallaghers Best and Maiden Voyage. I made made a Japanese rice lager with the latter (Echigo Clone) so it is light (2.5).

https://admiralmaltings.com/malt/

I’m local to Admiral too. Live in Alameda. I mostly use GW Premium Pilsen, or Pure California 2-Row. But do buy Admiral malts on occasion. It’s really good but pricey.

 

[warx]

I’m local to Admiral too. Live in Alameda. I mostly use GW Premium Pilsen, or Pure California 2-Row. But do buy Admiral malts on occasion. It’s really good but pricey.

True - but I was sold after chatting with Dave M. I was buying malt that oddly was from my old home of Ipswich, UK (Muntons, Simpsons) but had been on boats and trucks for 5500 miles and taking up to a year! This stuff you can see being floor malted through their windows while you drink in their bar.

 

[kmarkstevens]

Yeah I am adding it to list, reading this and seeing @Bramling Cross drinking one of Ron's recipes is making me curious.

I only have one memorable experience with Boddingtons running the Lakeland 100k and dropping into Glenridding the mini market had the nitro cans. So I bought two and a sandwich. They were heavenly. Probably due to the dehydration and massive lack of calories. Oddly I haven't gone back to it since. I may need to pick up a pack soon.

For those that are interested, read through the Jim's beer kit thread on recreating the Boddy recipe.

Tony spoke to someone that had worked at the brewery who suggested dried Nottingham yeast. I've tried that (Notty is my "if you could only have one yeast" yeast), but found the Manchester (who someone on this board actually sent from their yeast collection - apologies as I've forgotten who, but love the yeast) was a good fit. IIRC, the "dream" Boddington's has the perfect hop bitterness in the back of the throat to keep pouring them down your neck, whilst still being balanced. Tony also took some of his recipe for some old timers to try, who said it was the real deal.

FYI, @Northern_Brewer, on one of his visits to the Seattle area, brought UK Boddy nitro can, which we tasted tested against what is available in the US. US was ~10% higher ABV, so there was a bit of taste difference.

I've been drinking Boddington in the can since the mid 1990's in Hong Kong. It's a good standby, and I grab some a couple times a year. That said, Tony's and Ron's descriptions of back in the heyday are amazing. I've been off homebrewing for a couple years now, but all my tests with Tony's were definately drinkable. Hard to say if perfect, since I've never had the original, but a recipe to keep in the rotation for sure.

 

[Pennine]

For those that are interested, read through the Jim's beer kit thread on recreating the Boddy recipe.

Tony spoke to someone that had worked at the brewery who suggested dried Nottingham yeast. I've tried that (Notty is my "if you could only have one yeast" yeast), but found the Manchester (who someone on this board actually sent from their yeast collection - apologies as I've forgotten who, but love the yeast) was a good fit. IIRC, the "dream" Boddington's has the perfect hop bitterness in the back of the throat to keep pouring them down your neck, whilst still being balanced. Tony also took some of his recipe for some old timers to try, who said it was the real deal.

FYI, @Northern_Brewer, on one of his visits to the Seattle area, brought UK Boddy nitro can, which we tasted tested against what is available in the US. US was ~10% higher ABV, so there was a bit of taste difference.

I've been drinking Boddington in the can since the mid 1990's in Hong Kong. It's a good standby, and I grab some a couple times a year. That said, Tony's and Ron's descriptions of back in the heyday are amazing. I've been off homebrewing for a couple years now, but all my tests with Tony's were definately drinkable. Hard to say if perfect, since I've never had the original, but a recipe to keep in the rotation for sure.

Interesting I was thinking Nottingham might be a good choice. I need to check the attenuation stats... Well starts at <80% in '39 and the creeps up to 90%+.

Reading through the changing recipes. It might be fun to brew them from the first one. The recipes look roughly consistent across the 50 years Ron has posted.

http://barclayperkins.blogspot.com/2021/02/a-collection-pf-boddington-bitter.html

 

[Johnsau1]

flocculation.

Any opinion on mangrove Jack’s M 15 dry yeast for an English brown ale

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I did order some Brewers Gold already - says a clone of English and Canadian (?)

That's a reference not to where it was grown, but its parentage - Brewer's Gold, Bullion and the father (OL45) of Bramling Cross all came from Ernest Salmon's 1919 open pollination (in Wye, UK) of the legendary BB1 from Manitoba.

 

[warx]

Well I can forget Real Brewers Yeast (RBY) - they seem like a defunct company after trying to reach them a few times. I guess I either risk ordering some Essex yeast from the UK (and the summer heat of DHL planes and vans) or wait for White Labs to do their seasonal release (guessing December?). Or, since I have the hops I suppose I could try some London yeast. What’s a few miles up the River Thames…

In reading about that Ridleys yeast I saw my old two local breweries mentioned a lot - Tolly Cobbold and Greene King. I used to love one of these

 

[AmarikinBrew]

mmmmMMmm Greene King Abbot ale -wish I had a clone recipe for that!

 

[Cheshire Cat]

mmmmMMmm Greene King Abbot ale -wish I had a clone recipe for that!

Recipe for 19 litres of Abbot Ale​

Malts (4.04 kg)​

3.6 kg (89.1%) — Crisp Finest Maris Otter® Ale Malt — Grain — 3.3 SRM
400 g (9.9%) — Crisp Amber Malt — Grain — 37 SRM
40 g (1%) — Crisp Black Malt — Grain — 700 SRM

Hops (87 g)​

22 g (19 IBU) — First Gold 6% — Boil — 60 min
18 g (17 IBU) — Challenger 6.5% — Boil — 60 min
22 g (7 IBU) — Fuggles 4.2% — Boil — 15 min
25 g (5 IBU) — Pilgrim 8.8% — Aroma — 15 min hopstand

Yeast is a Nottingham style.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

I got the recipe from the Green King website but guessed the quantities.

TASTING NOTES​

Warming, Malty and Fruity. Pale and amber malts contribute to a mouth filling and satisfying 'Horlicks' and biscuity maltiness. Challenger and First Gold give a base note of herbal hop and Fuggle as a late hop contributes the main fragrant fruity and floral and spicy notes. Fermented slowly to give just enough fruity esters Abbot Ale provides a complex, satisfying and warming experience.

ABV​

Bottle: 5% | Cask: 5%

MALT​

Pale, Amber

HOPS​

Challenger, Pilgrim, First Gold, Fuggle.