English Ales - What's your favorite recipe?

[Colindo]

Anyway, it's in the bottle now

Same thing though. Your yeast will go through the priming quite quickly and afterwards will needs warmth and maybe some agitation to find the last scraps of maltotriose that might remain. If carbonation increases again after several weeks, you'll know if that was the issue.

 

[Miraculix]

Same thing though. Your yeast will go through the priming quite quickly and afterwards will needs warmth and maybe some agitation to find the last scraps of maltotriose that might remain. If carbonation increases again after several weeks, you'll know if that was the issue.

Yep, have bottled with fairly low amount of priming sugar. There is a bit room for more. But no much. It is a bitter after all. Although now it is more like a strong bitter.

Speaking of bitter, the hop bitterness was stronger than anticipated. I should be around 33 Ibus, which is not that much. But it is definitely bitter. Probably the lower FG that enhances the perception plus some yeast bite derived bitterness in addition. I am really looking forward for this one when it is all settled.

My next beer will have 20ppm less SMB to see if that suffices. It is a bit of a trial and error thing without an O2 meter.

 

[corncob]

1469 is foul in suspension. Sour, bitter, sharp. Vomit sums it up. I have never had it fail to drop extremely fast: I expect it to be read-through but not polished in 5-10 days, ready to drink in 2-3 weeks. It clears fast and sticks hard to the bottom of the cask. Top crops on day 2 or 3 like a king. For me, it's the standard by which other English yeasts are judged.

I bet the sulphites slowed you down, and I bet a month in the bottle will produce a really great beer.

 

[Pennine]

Yes, this one tastes not nice while yeast is still in suspension. I have however not experienced any cloudiness with this yeast. It is a strong flocculator like Fuller's and typically ends fermentation with a layer of barm on top of the beer while the liquid underneath is already clear. If yours is still cloudy, I would definitely make sure to keep it warm and help it however you can to finish the last bits of maltotriose. Once all food is gone, it will drop bright.

Can SMB slow down the yeast?

Interesting about it clearing up like S-04 for you, I have had issues with it staying hazy for a couple weeks. Eventually it does drop clear.

 

[Miraculix]

1469 is foul in suspension. Sour, bitter, sharp. Vomit sums it up. I have never had it fail to drop extremely fast: I expect it to be read-through but not polished in 5-10 days, ready to drink in 2-3 weeks. It clears fast and sticks hard to the bottom of the cask. Top crops on day 2 or 3 like a king. For me, it's the standard by which other English yeasts are judged.

I bet the sulphites slowed you down, and I bet a month in the bottle will produce a really great beer.

Foul, that is precisely how it tasted yesterday. Maybe it wasn't even the sulphite's fault after all but only yeast derived urgness.

Hopes are up again!

 

[Pennine]

All this talk about 1469 is making me want to brew a batch of Landlord.

Based on the process steps they do a hopback but don't mention dry hopping. Is a whirlpool addition a good copy for this?

Also a bit crazy they mash for 5 hours? A process thing?

https://www.timothytaylor.co.uk/brewing-process#

 

[Colindo]

@Pennine Yes, for me it always drops like a brick.

The five hours is including sparge time, so probably 1h mash plus 4h sparge or something like that. They only use the hop back addition which is similar to what you get when you add the hops at flameout.
I only ever did the old Graham Wheeler recipe with 10 min additions and did not use invert No2, but in my estimate you already get very close as long as you use Wyeast 1469. It fits the rest of the ingredients extremely well.

Oh, and check the Craft Beer Channel, they recently had a video only about TT and their Landlord.

 

[Miraculix]

Is 1469 the landlord yeast? That would be interesting, that is the last bitter I've had. I have had that one quite recently. I liked it!

 

[Colindo]

Is 1469 the landlord yeast? That would be interesting, that is the last bitter I've had. I have had that one quite recently. I liked it!

Yes it is. Though an older variant of the strain, as is often the case. I brewed a clone several times long before I tried it in the UK and I immediately recognised it once I found it. It's gotten more ubiquitous since, so it's easy to find it in a pub nowadays.

 

[Pennine]

Yes it is. Though an older variant of the strain, as is often the case. I brewed a clone several times long before I tried it in the UK and I immediately recognised it once I found it. It's gotten more ubiquitous since, so it's easy to find it in a pub nowadays.

I listened to the pellicle podcast about TT recently they mention the yeast has been continuously repitched for 40 years so it definitely has to be an older variant. They did mention they verify for genetic drifting so it's likely pretty close. I am using a different supplier than wyeast so I am curious if they pulled from 1469 or the brewery somehow.

 

[Colindo]

@Pennine Which supplier are you using? Imperial and Fermentum both use the same source as Wyeast, from what I could discern. Brewlab is one of the few with unique liquid strain sources, often the breweries themselves.

 

[Pennine]

@Pennine Which supplier are you using? Imperial and Fermentum both use the same source as Wyeast, from what I could discern. Brewlab is one of the few with unique liquid strain sources, often the breweries themselves.

A local yeast company Propagate right up the street. Freshest liquid I can get and only $10 a pack.

https://propagatelab.com/product/english-ale-ii/

 

[Miraculix]

A local yeast company Propagate right up the street. Freshest liquid I can get and only $10 a pack.

https://propagatelab.com/product/english-ale-ii/

Lucky you!

 

[Bramling Cross]

I noticed this thread in the recent posts lists and figured I'd post the most recent iteration of my house ordinary bitter. There isn't a whole lot to talk about here, it's a bit of a paint-by-numbers bitter. I think the only interesting thing is my use of non-iodized table salt. I've been playing with non-iodized salt in all my beers for the past four years and this is my most aggressive use of non-iodized table salt in a bitter to date.

I'm fond of it. It trades off a bit of the sulfate dryness for a bit more roundness. It helps to integrate the flavors and slightly softens any rough edges in the ale. It took me four years to work my way up to 3g, it'll likely take me eight years to work my way up to 4g. Three grams seems about right for my water, but I'm sure that I'll eventually succumb to the homebrewer's curse and start chasing the dragon in pursuit of more perfect perfection. As things currently stand, I'm not sure where to go from here. This is a solid ordinary bitter. Rather than thinking about how to improve it, I should likely just enjoy it for what it is. But that's not how a homebrewer's brain works, right?

 

[corncob]

"paint by numbers" recipe. You know, at some point, a thing is so near perfect, that further tinkering only serves to amuse the tinker.

 

[Colindo]

There isn't a whole lot to talk about here, it's a bit of a paint-by-numbers bitter.

Looks like a great recipe and the picture says the same. Any chance to get a waterprofile or what your chloride levels look like? It seems to be 0.1g/l NaCl with your amount of water. I've gone for 0.4g/l calcium chloride for my most recent NEIPA, where I tried to go as far as possible before I can taste the saltiness. Results in 275ppm chloride. I've noticed before that above 300, I can taste it. Depends on the malts as well, of course.

 

[Bramling Cross]

Looks like a great recipe and the picture says the same. Any chance to get a waterprofile or what your chloride levels look like? It seems to be 0.1g/l NaCl with your amount of water. I've gone for 0.4g/l calcium chloride for my most recent NEIPA, where I tried to go as far as possible before I can taste the saltiness. Results in 275ppm chloride. I've noticed before that above 300, I can taste it. Depends on the malts as well, of course.

Happy to! This is the Beersmith water sheet for this ale. My decades of experience with DC municipal water suggests that it brews a bit softer than Beersmith suggests (unless we haven't had much rain for a month or two). As you can see, I'm not being terribly aggressive with the water. Outside of the modestly elevated sodium and magnesium, there isn't much to talk about here. It results in a fairly dry, but guzzle-able ordinary bitter. Which, as a dumb Yank, I think is the point--it's been three decades since I was last in the UK. I'm sure a lot has changed since then and I'll happily concede that I'm wrong about my current assumptions.

 

[Colindo]

@Bramling Cross Thanks. Looks like a nice profile for something a bit more balanced than the typical sulfate-forward profile. Sounds well quaffable and I'll keep it in mind for the future.

 

[Miraculix]

Happy to! This is the Beersmith water sheet for this ale. My decades of experience with DC municipal water suggests that it brews a bit softer than Beersmith suggests (unless we haven't had much rain for a month or two). As you can see, I'm not being terribly aggressive with the water. Outside of the modestly elevated sodium and magnesium, there isn't much to talk about here. It results in a fairly dry, but guzzle-able ordinary bitter. Which, as a dumb Yank, I think is the point--it's been three decades since I was last in the UK. I'm sure a lot has changed since then and I'll happily concede that I'm wrong about my current assumptions. View attachment 878807

You have great water over there! You can go higher with the calcium. I go at least to 100, mostly higher. I have not tried table salt for a long long time, I usually get my chloride from CaCl2 which has the added benefit of bringing Ca levels up.

Regarding your recipe, as solid as it gets!

 

[Bramling Cross]

You have great water over there! You can go higher with the calcium. I go at least to 100, mostly higher. I have not tried table salt for a long long time, I usually get my chloride from CaCl2 which has the added benefit of bringing Ca levels up.

Regarding your recipe, as solid as it gets!

You know, I stopped chasing Ca. Beyond the "enough" threshold, my experience suggests that it doesn't do a whole lot--hence my usage of Epsom salts to boost the sulfate w/o pushing the calcium harder. That said, that's very much a contemporary North American way of looking at things. But three decades of brewing UK ales has taught me that restraint typically offers the best (edit, my preferred) results. Over the past decade I've settled into the notion that the best pint is the pint that demands a second pint and my use of water salts has subsequently become more restrained.

Of course, that's just my opinion, man. Reasonable brewers can reasonably disagree about this assertion.

 

[Pennine]

I noticed this thread in the recent posts lists and figured I'd post the most recent iteration of my house ordinary bitter. There isn't a whole lot to talk about here, it's a bit of a paint-by-numbers bitter. I think the only interesting thing is my use of non-iodized table salt. I've been playing with non-iodized salt in all my beers for the past four years and this is my most aggressive use of non-iodized table salt in a bitter to date.

I'm fond of it. It trades off a bit of the sulfate dryness for a bit more roundness. It helps to integrate the flavors and slightly softens any rough edges in the ale. It took me four years to work my way up to 3g, it'll likely take me eight years to work my way up to 4g. Three grams seems about right for my water, but I'm sure that I'll eventually succumb to the homebrewer's curse and start chasing the dragon in pursuit of more perfect perfection. As things currently stand, I'm not sure where to go from here. This is a solid ordinary bitter. Rather than thinking about how to improve it, I should likely just enjoy it for what it is. But that's not how a homebrewer's brain works, right?
View attachment 878805

View attachment 878804

Looks fantastic and directionally like the landlord recipe.

Another question for the thread they mention they burtonize the water for Landlord. Is that like a 100 Ca and 300 sulfate or even higher?

 

[Bramling Cross]

Looks fantastic and directionally like the landlord recipe.

Another question for the thread they mention they burtonize the water for Landlord. Is that like a 100 Ca and 300 sulfate or even higher?

Something like that. I don't remember the exact numbers off the top of my head, but it's absurd and I've never had any luck with it. Plus there were various wells and water treatments in play, so the old saw about Burtonizing your water requires some careful consideration--if not skepticism.

With that said, I'm approaching this as a guy that's trying to brew a good pint, rather than as an historian of brewing. I admire and enjoy the history side of things, but I don't follow it slavishly. My pint is my lodestar, not history. As such, anything I write must be read through the filters of my preferences regarding what a dumb Yank thinks is a nice, guzzle-able pint and the iterative methodology of my brewery (ie, historically correct stuff that doesn't taste good gets irreverently tossed over the transom).

 

[Halfakneecap]

I think TT is my favourite bitter. When i get it here. It actually seems to travel well too. I like dry, bitter bitters. I like brewing MO smash bitters with one hop variant too. Yum

EDIT, this weekend will be MO and Bramling Cross bitter.

 

[Miraculix]

Something like that. I don't remember the exact numbers off the top of my head, but it's absurd and I've never had any luck with it. Plus there were various wells and water treatments in play, so the old saw about Burtonizing your water requires some careful consideration--if not skepticism.

With that said, I'm approaching this as a guy that's trying to brew a good pint, rather than as an historian of brewing. I admire and enjoy the history side of things, but I don't follow it slavishly. My pint is my lodestar, not history. As such, anything I write must be read through the filters of my preferences regarding what a dumb Yank thinks is a nice, guzzle-able pint and the iterative methodology of my brewery (ie, historically correct stuff that doesn't taste good gets irreverently tossed over the transom).

That's exactly my approach. And I can confirm also that I don't like too much "Burtonization". I've made experiments with elevated sulphate additions and the more it got, the less I liked it. I keep it in the range of 100 now and that's fine. I might check in the future if elevated chloride levels are nice to my palate.

 

[Miraculix]

Looks fantastic and directionally like the landlord recipe.

Another question for the thread they mention they burtonize the water for Landlord. Is that like a 100 Ca and 300 sulfate or even higher?

100ppm Ca is pretty much the lower end of the standard range for UK ales. 100ppm Ca aids yeast flocculation so I aim to get this as a minimum in every beer I brew.

300 ppm sulfate on the other hand is pretty high. I personally don't like that, but tastes certainly differ.

 

[Colindo]

I like using the water profile for Bitter that Murphy & Son recommend:

I never had issues flavour-wise with this profile, only once when I went to 600 ppm Sulfate did I notice the chalkiness of the gypsum. I have to warn you though, if you ferment under pressures, some yeasts can throw a lot of sulfites with this water.

In a brewery tour video from TT they said that they add additional gypsum in the copper, so my understanding would be to start with very soft or demineralised water, add as much gypsum as possible so that you mash pH is just in range, and then add more during the boil until it is almost too much. Hope that helps

 

[Shenanigans]

Interesting discussion about water treatment.
I usually do a 50/50 mix of CaCl2 and NaCl (table salt) to increase my Cl.
Nothing really scientific about it; it was just something I read on a forum when I was first getting into water treatment.
The author was saying when significantly increasing Cl he preferred to not add it all from one source.
Looking at it now, it's probably a good way to not add too much Ca or Na compared to using just one of them.
All depending on your starting water and your targeted finished water of course.

 

[Shenanigans]

I was looking into brewing a British golden ale.
Firstly I was going to brew a Crouch Vale Brewer's Gold.
However, Exmoor Gold keeps coming up in my searchs as one of the best Golden ales so I decided to go for that.
I have a recipe in one of Graham Wheeler's books but of course he dosn't suggest any yeast.
Looking around the internet every recipe seems to use a different yeast.
Anyone here know what yeast they use and/or which commerically available yeast would be closest?
I'm thinking WLP007 or S-04 or Whitbread 1099?

Thanks!

 

[Colindo]

Anyone here know what yeast they use and/or which commerically available yeast would be closest?

I have had it in the pub before, but cannot remember specifics. Without a sparkler the 38 IBU really packed a punch, more than the 45 of TT Landlord with a sparkler. Maybe nowadays I would be able to properly appreciate it.

You could probably write to the brewery and ask. But as a guess I would go for one of the really dry strains, WLP007, Wyeast 1098, or even Wyeast 1469.

 

[Shenanigans]

I have had it in the pub before, but cannot remember specifics. Without a sparkler the 38 IBU really packed a punch, more than the 45 of TT Landlord with a sparkler. Maybe nowadays I would be able to properly appreciate it.

You could probably write to the brewery and ask. But as a guess I would go for one of the really dry strains, WLP007, Wyeast 1098, or even Wyeast 1469.

Thanks, I think i will go with WLP007; it's been a while since I brewed with that.