English Ales - What's your favorite recipe?

[Shenanigans]

Yep, it's in the keg, has been for a few weeks now. It tastes fine but definitely is a little sweet and has too much body, both completely expected. I've thought about pitching a little more yeast into it, and can warm it back up to room temp for that, but I'm not sure it's worth it for the ~ 2 gallons I have left.

Normally I'd pitch in the upper 60's F and hold it there, then take it to 70 maybe 72 F after 3-4 days. I sometimes grab the fermenter and give it as much shake as I can manage. I usually run a starter too. Other than letting it get a bit warm and then cool it down this time, I seem to have a pretty good and consistent routine and it normally works.

I may consider a co-pitch a few days in, and hope there's something left for it to ferment and that the 1968 hasn't gone too far already. I do use about 10% invert but it goes in for the boil. That would be interesting to hold back a little until fermentation, hmm. Or even something silly like tossing in a cup of sugar.

Ugh I have to start thinking about owning a Tilt. I so rarely have an issue I've never felt the need for one.

OK as long as you didn't bottle you should be fine as it will always be cold in the keg and shouldn't restart and if it does you can burp the keg .
Now that I think about it I remember after a few bad experiences with that yeast I decided to only use it when kegging, normally some kind of IPA like Union Jack. For English-style bottled beer I usually use a more forgiving yeast that needs less attention.

 

[eshea3]

I saw that the Meantime brewery will be closed in Greenwich

Was in Greenwich in late April and Meantime was already closed. I was disappointed to say the least.

 

[balrog]

I have a question as well - co yeast pitching. My latest ale (ESB inspired) used Wyeast 1968. I had a 1L starter to be sure it was a good yeast pack and it was. I pitched at about 65F but forgot to turn on my cooling and after a day or so it got into the low 70's F. This wasn't a huge deal, but I turned on the cooling and brought it back down to about 68 F. This might have made it to decide to quite fermenting? I had continued activity, things seemed normal, and fermentation mostly quit after about 3 days and the yeast settled. But I ended up with a final gravity of about 1.026, pretty high (I started around 1.055 with a little more than an hour mashing at 152F).

I'm considering, in the future, pitching perhaps some Nottingham dry or something similar maybe a day or two into fermentation. So that I can somewhat ensure I end up closer to 1.016 or so, in case the 1968 decides to quit early. I love the flavor of it but don't love its varying and consistently somewhat higher final gravity. Has anyone else done this co-pitch, or does it seem like a dumb idea?

I've only co-pitched Verdant and Notty for @Miraculix classic engl ale

 

[JohnA]

I don't yet know if this is a Favorite Recipe (per thread title), but I hope to find out shortly. Any advice to help it along in that direction would be appreciated. : )

It might be more appropriate to post this in the Beginners Beer Brewing Forum since this is:
My first all-grain
My first attempt at milling grain
My first batch on an all-in-one (Brewzilla Gen. 4 35L 120v)
My first time using brewing software (BrewCipher)
My first time playing around much at all with water chemistry
My first English-style ale
...but I thought this thread would find a better targeted population of HBT membership.

To help myself learn ingredients I'd like to make a SMaSH using the Bairds Maris Otter and the Fuggles I've recently picked up. I have one pack of Lallemand Nottingham to use with it (I don't see this in BrewCipher, only Danstar Nottingham -- close enough????).

The thoughts so far:
Batch size: 5.5 gallons
Mash at 154F for 60 minutes
Boil for 60 minutes
6.5 lb Maris Otter
1.25 oz Fuggles at 60 minutes
1 oz Fuggles at 5 minutes
Suggested fermentation temp. is 66F.

This is predicting:
OG: 1.036
FG: 1.007
ABV: 3.7%
IBU: 28
BU/GU: 0.80

My water as reported by the water company (before being run through a RV carbon filter, if that makes a difference):
No chloramines
Ca: 38 ppm
Mg: 7
Na: 5.9
Cl: 11
S04: 6.4
pH: 7.9-8.1
Alkalinity: unknown so far

The additions of (based on what I have on-hand):
Mash -- 3g gypsum, 1.5g kosher salt
Kettle -- 5g gypsum, 3g kosher salt

...get me to:
Ca: 105ppm
Mg: 7
Na: 70
Cl: 109
SO4: 167
HCO3: ????

A couple things that perhaps I should be concerned about are my mash pH and my sparge water pH. I am currently limited to no pH meter, only very old paper pH strips, nor do I have the phosphoric acid nor lactic acid BrewCipher offers for possible additions. I do have a dry citric/malic/tartaric acid blend, dry citric acid, and dry malic acid if any of that would be helpful. Current predicted mash pH is 5.58. Also, is the Na level too high?

Thanks for any wisdom I've forgotten from reading the past 151 pages. : )

(Edit: Ah — I see Danstar and Lallemand are one and the same.)


JohnA

 

[Miraculix]

I don't yet know if this is a Favorite Recipe (per thread title), but I hope to find out shortly. Any advice to help it along in that direction would be appreciated. : )

It might be more appropriate to post this in the Beginners Beer Brewing Forum since this is:
My first all-grain
My first attempt at milling grain
My first batch on an all-in-one (Brewzilla Gen. 4 35L 120v)
My first time using brewing software (BrewCipher)
My first time playing around much at all with water chemistry
My first English-style ale
...but I thought this thread would find a better targeted population of HBT membership.

To help myself learn ingredients I'd like to make a SMaSH using the Bairds Maris Otter and the Fuggles I've recently picked up. I have one pack of Lallemand Nottingham to use with it (I don't see this in BrewCipher, only Danstar Nottingham -- close enough????).

The thoughts so far:
Batch size: 5.5 gallons
Mash at 154F for 60 minutes
Boil for 60 minutes
6.5 lb Maris Otter
1.25 oz Fuggles at 60 minutes
1 oz Fuggles at 5 minutes
Suggested fermentation temp. is 66F.

This is predicting:
OG: 1.036
FG: 1.007
ABV: 3.7%
IBU: 28
BU/GU: 0.80

My water as reported by the water company (before being run through a RV carbon filter, if that makes a difference):
No chloramines
Ca: 38 ppm
Mg: 7
Na: 5.9
Cl: 11
S04: 6.4
pH: 7.9-8.1
Alkalinity: unknown so far

The additions of (based on what I have on-hand):
Mash -- 3g gypsum, 1.5g kosher salt
Kettle -- 5g gypsum, 3g kosher salt

...get me to:
Ca: 105ppm
Mg: 7
Na: 70
Cl: 109
SO4: 167
HCO3: ????

A couple things that perhaps I should be concerned about are my mash pH and my sparge water pH. I am currently limited to no pH meter, only very old paper pH strips, nor do I have the phosphoric acid nor lactic acid BrewCipher offers for possible additions. I do have a dry citric/malic/tartaric acid blend, dry citric acid, and dry malic acid if any of that would be helpful. Current predicted mash pH is 5.58. Also, is the Na level too high?

Thanks for any wisdom I've forgotten from reading the past 151 pages. : )

(Edit: Ah — I see Danstar and Lallemand are one and the same.)


JohnA

Looks pretty solid to me!

You could go a bit higher in OG and abv, like 1.04 or 1.042. Bitters tend to be a bit more forgiving in the middle or upper abv range. But yours is certainly also fine. If you up the OG, also up the ibus a bit. 30 to 35 would be good for 1.042, for example. Of course, a matter of personal taste. Yours is good as it is.

An easy alkalinity fix is just to add 1%-2% of the total grist as acidulated malt. Highly unscientific balpark-ish process, but gets the job reliably done if there is some alkalinity present in the water.

 

[Peebee]

... My water as reported by the water company (before being run through a RV carbon filter, if that makes a difference):
No chloramines
Ca: 38 ppm
Mg: 7
Na: 5.9
Cl: 11
S04: 6.4
pH: 7.9-8.1
Alkalinity: unknown so far

The additions of (based on what I have on-hand):
Mash -- 3g gypsum, 1.5g kosher salt
Kettle -- 5g gypsum, 3g kosher salt

...get me to:
Ca: 105ppm
Mg: 7
Na: 70
Cl: 109
SO4: 167
HCO3: ????

A couple things that perhaps I should be concerned about are my mash pH and my sparge water pH. I am currently limited to no pH meter, only very old paper pH strips, nor do I have the phosphoric acid nor lactic acid BrewCipher offers for possible additions. I do have a dry citric/malic/tartaric acid blend, dry citric acid, and dry malic acid if any of that would be helpful. Current predicted mash pH is 5.58. Also, is the Na level too high? ...

No need to be without "bicarbonate" or "alkalinity". They can be viewed as the same thing in our case (drinking water). Before run through the filter and treated:

"as HCO3" is bicarbonate, Alkalinity will be "bicarbonate". "Alkalinity" might also be expressed "as CaCO3" (even though there is zero CaCO3 in your water). After filtering, adding the gypsum and adding the salt the calculated alkalinity is near the same:

But I'd avoid adding all that salt (NaCl), it really is bumping the sodium up for a UK style lightish "bitter" (or "amber/golden" as they get called these days). I wouldn't recommend the citric/malic/tartaric acids, but only because they're acids that are not used (normally) by beer brewers; I don't have experience of actually using them.

[EDIT: Those screen snips of a spreadsheet mention "milliEquivalents"! Ooo, scary! If you don't know what they are, don't worry about them, they are not anything you need to know.]

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Was in Greenwich in late April and Meantime was already closed. I was disappointed to say the least.

Greenwich coldest place in Britain always zero degrees.

 

[eshea3]

Greenwich coldest place in Britain always zero degrees.

We did have 15 minutes of sunshine

 

[Shenanigans]

Was in Greenwich in late April and Meantime was already closed. I was disappointed to say the least.

Pain in the balls.
I did the last year of my degree at Greenwich Uni. from 1997 to 1998.
The brewery only opened in 1999 so I missed that boat, but it was tradition to go for a walk in the park and have a few hair of the dog pints in the Cutty Sark on a Sunday afternoon.
I have no idea what I was drinking back then but it looks like it a Young's pub now so it might have been Young's London Special Ale.

 

[HM-2]

The Cutty is a splendid establishment. Acquired by Youngs in, I think 2016?

 

[Northern_Brewer]

The Cutty is a splendid establishment. Acquired by Youngs in, I think 2016?

2012.

 

[JohnA]

No need to be without "bicarbonate" or "alkalinity". They can be viewed as the same thing in our case (drinking water). Before run through the filter and treated:
View attachment 852208
"as HCO3" is bicarbonate, Alkalinity will be "bicarbonate". "Alkalinity" might also be expressed "as CaCO3" (even though there is zero CaCO3 in your water). After filtering, adding the gypsum and adding the salt the calculated alkalinity is near the same:
View attachment 852207
But I'd avoid adding all that salt (NaCl), it really is bumping the sodium up for a UK style lightish "bitter" (or "amber/golden" as they get called these days). I wouldn't recommend the citric/malic/tartaric acids, but only because they're acids that are not used (normally) by beer brewers; I don't have experience of actually using them.

[EDIT: Those screen snips of a spreadsheet mention "milliEquivalents"! Ooo, scary! If you don't know what they are, don't worry about them, they are not anything you need to know.]

Thank you. How were those calculated?

 

[Peebee]

@JohnA: "TA" or Total Alkalinity = ∑conservative-cations - ∑conservative-anions

"∑Conservative" means sum of ions generally unaffected by pH, heat and pressure (i.e: not "Alkalinity" inducing!). More here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alkalinity (Wikipedia gets a lot of stick for "accuracy", but loads of references included, and your own digging will turn the equation up again-and-again). Even without references, think about it for a while and you come to the same conclusion.

Drinking water supplies (pH6.5 to pH8.3) "Alkalinity" is near-enough all "bicarbonate". If the water is treated with Lime (calcium hydroxide - often done to "soft" low-alkalinity water) some alkalinity is due to "OH-" but it doesn't have to stay that way long. Above pH8.3 (if you are unfortunate to have drinking water like that) "carbonate" begins to make an appearance, hence I said "zero CaCO3 in your water" ("CaCO3" is just a handy "equivalence"). And don't get me started on "Hardness" ...

I have no idea why the equation is seemingly over-looked in this and other brewing forums?

BTW. I'm not a chemist or a water engineer ... just a home-brewer fed-up that I've had the wool-pulled-over-my-eyes for all this time.

 

[Peebee]

@JohnA: I've just put the spreadsheet in my "signature" below. It may change in looks over the coming months, but the calculations seem solid. It's in the public section of a Google drive (read-only, download a copy to edit it, created in Excel, but tested in Google Sheets - not recommended - and latest LibreOffice Calc).

 

[WesBrew]

Iv'e got a best bitter carbing up now, fermented with Verdant. Really liking the fruity tones with a fairly dry finish.

 

[Willy]

This is my third batch in 2024 of this recipe - a nut brown English ale, with a touch of red, white and blue just cuz that's what us Yanks do - sorry, I like it like that.
5.5 gal batch
IBU - 28.5
SRM - 16
ABV - 4.7

Squirrel Nut Brown Ale
5 lb pale ale
4 lb Marris Otter
1.5 lb UK crisp brown ale
3 oz chocolate malt
2 oz coffee malt
2 oz gamb. Honey malt.
5 oz flaked oats

Hops - fuggle & UK Kent goldings
1.2 oz each. 30 min. Boil.

Water adds - calcium carbonate- 2.88g, gypsum 2.88g, Epsom salts 2.41g

Fermentis US-05

This nut brown always goes fast since it is delicious. The hints of chocolate and coffee take it to the next level.

 

[Shenanigans]

This is my third batch in 2024 of this recipe - a nut brown English ale, with a touch of red, white and blue just cuz that's what us Yanks do - sorry, I like it like that.
5.5 gal batch
IBU - 28.5
SRM - 16
ABV - 4.7

Squirrel Nut Brown Ale
5 lb pale ale
4 lb Marris Otter
1.5 lb UK crisp brown ale
3 oz chocolate malt
2 oz coffee malt
2 oz gamb. Honey malt.
5 oz flaked oats

Hops - fuggle & UK Kent goldings
1.2 oz each. 30 min. Boil.

Water adds - calcium carbonate- 2.88g, gypsum 2.88g, Epsom salts 2.41g

Fermentis US-05

This nut brown always goes fast since it is delicious. The hints of chocolate and coffee take it to the next level.

Looks tasty but I'm sure the purists will complain about the honey malt
Is Crisp Brown Ale malt just their Brown Malt?

 

[Willy]

Looks tasty but I'm sure the purists will complain about the honey malt
Is Crisp Brown Ale malt just their Brown Malt?

Great question - I think crisp brown offers a bit more chocolate and nut taste than brown malt, ... Perhaps a difference in how it is roasted. The crisp brown I am using has a slightly more robust aroma. And about 5°L darker (~60 vs 55)

Yep. The honey malt does piss puritans off. 2 oz of honey ? Why? It is like that rug in Big Lebowski... It brings it all together man.

 

[Peebee]

"Nut Brown" ... now there's a long-in-the-tooth "English" descriptor! Must say, it's one of my favourites at the moment ... Sam Smith's Nut Brown Ale. Cracking stuff, but much better if you can brew it yourself!

Something to get @Colindo excited about! Sugar! Sam Smith use a distinctive Caramel sugar in their "Nut Brown" (for colour too?). And their "Taddy Porter", and "Oatmeal Stout" ("Imperial Stout"? Others?). I'd love to get me hands on some of that! Okay ... not me hands 'cos the stuff'll be flippin' sticky.



Remarkable! I'm going through all these Sam Smith beers now as a result of reading a post on this forum about "Yorkshire Stingo". ... Remarkable now, living a couple of hundred miles away though not thousands of miles away like many of the readers here. But a few years ago, I lived about five miles from the brewery (at Bramham Crossroads ... as was then, now a motorway junction!) yet never touched their bottled stuff (all draught in the pubs). So, Sam Smith's have a new regular customer in Wales because of a bunch of very distant Americans.

Well, I think it's remarkable! And they do brew some very excellent beer! I'll have one tonight (won't be "Nut Brown" ... I've run out!).



[EDIT: What's "honey malt"? Am I "pissed" about it? And if so, am I a puritan?]

 

[Willy]

"Nut Brown" ... now there's a long-in-the-tooth "English" descriptor! Must say, it's one of my favourites at the moment ... Sam Smith's Nut Brown Ale. Cracking stuff, but much better if you can brew it yourself!

Something to get @Colindo excited about! Sugar! Sam Smith use a distinctive Caramel sugar in their "Nut Brown" (for colour too?). And their "Taddy Porter", and "Oatmeal Stout" ("Imperial Stout"? Others?). I'd love to get me hands on some of that! Okay ... not me hands 'cos the stuff'll be flippin' sticky.



Remarkable! I'm going through all these Sam Smith beers now as a result of reading a post on this forum about "Yorkshire Stingo". ... Remarkable now, living a couple of hundred miles away though not thousands of miles away like many of the readers here. But a few years ago, I lived about five miles from the brewery (at Bramham Crossroads ... as was then, now a motorway junction!) yet never touched their bottled stuff (all draught in the pubs). So, Sam Smith's have a new regular customer in Wales because of a bunch of very distant Americans.

Well, I think it's remarkable! And they do brew some very excellent beer! I'll have one tonight (won't be "Nut Brown" ... I've run out!).



[EDIT: What's "honey malt"? Am I "pissed" about it? And if so, am I a puritan?]

My first brown was a Newcastle, and hell yeah - love Samuel Smiths nut brown ale. In the states growing up in the 60s, 70s, 80s... We had close to zero varieties of beer - just a few imports otherwise it was US Lager, which consists of 20-40% corn.

 

[Colindo]

Sam Smith use a distinctive Caramel sugar in their "Nut Brown" (for colour too?).

Do you know which kind of sugar it is? The bottles are readily available in Germany, but most styles are not to my liking. I can only imagine how much better it must be on cask. Yorkshire Stingo, which is bottle-conditioned, is pretty much the only one drinkable for me. And Taddy Porter is not too bad. Anyhow, the ingredient list on the bottles just says "Cane Sugar" and I would be surprised if they wrote that despite having something more specific...

I have a Brown Ale brewing at the moment, however a more modern recipe with special malts instead of specific sugars, similar to what @Willy wrote.

 

[Willy]

Do you know which kind of sugar it is? The bottles are readily available in Germany, but most styles are not to my liking. I can only imagine how much better it must be on cask. Yorkshire Stingo, which is bottle-conditioned, is pretty much the only one drinkable for me. And Taddy Porter is not too bad. Anyhow, the ingredient list on the bottles just says "Cane Sugar" and I would be surprised if they wrote that despite having something more specific...

I have a Brown Ale brewing at the moment, however a more modern recipe with special malts instead of specific sugars, similar to what @Willy wrote.

I am guessing it may be Mauritius sugar, made off the coast of Madagascar. Dog Fish Head uses it too. Great stuff - haven't used it for a while but it used to be my secret sauce back in the days of extract brewing. Really heavy in molasses flavors - yummy stuff.

 

[Peebee]

Do you know which kind of sugar it is? ...

Hey! I'm going to score an (unlikely) point on this ...

... You can taste it!

 

[Peebee]

... But no ... I don't know. I was hoping you'd tell me.

 

[Colindo]

... But no ... I don't know. I was hoping you'd tell me.

I just remembered that I bought the no-alcohol version of Sam Smith's Brown Ale two days ago. Pretty decent for a non-alcoholic beer, but pretty crappy compared to the original, I'm sure. I thought I could detect the faintest trace of dark Muscovado sugar.

 

[Drinking Sensibly]

"Nut Brown" ... now there's a long-in-the-tooth "English" descriptor! Must say, it's one of my favourites at the moment ... Sam Smith's Nut Brown Ale. Cracking stuff, but much better if you can brew it yourself!

Something to get @Colindo excited about! Sugar! Sam Smith use a distinctive Caramel sugar in their "Nut Brown" (for colour too?). And their "Taddy Porter", and "Oatmeal Stout" ("Imperial Stout"? Others?). I'd love to get me hands on some of that! Okay ... not me hands 'cos the stuff'll be flippin' sticky.



Remarkable! I'm going through all these Sam Smith beers now as a result of reading a post on this forum about "Yorkshire Stingo". ... Remarkable now, living a couple of hundred miles away though not thousands of miles away like many of the readers here. But a few years ago, I lived about five miles from the brewery (at Bramham Crossroads ... as was then, now a motorway junction!) yet never touched their bottled stuff (all draught in the pubs). So, Sam Smith's have a new regular customer in Wales because of a bunch of very distant Americans.

Well, I think it's remarkable! And they do brew some very excellent beer! I'll have one tonight (won't be "Nut Brown" ... I've run out!).



[EDIT: What's "honey malt"? Am I "pissed" about it? And if so, am I a puritan?]

Malt that gives a vaguely honey flavour (which is more than actual honey does). A real puritan would be more pissed at the idea "nut brown ale" had any roast malt in it.

 

[Drinking Sensibly]

I like Brains Dark, it's local and fresh. Milds don't keep very well, so once the pub starts serving it the beer is noticeably worse after two days. Mighty Oak's Oscar Wilde is really good as well, but I only get it at beer festivals.

I think you'd get close to Brains Dark with something bittered to 16IBU, 6lb Mild malt, 10oz Crystal, 6oz Brown malt, 4oz Chocolate malt, 4oz Invert Sugar #3. I'll give it a go at the end of the summer and let you know. The cask version is around 3.5% abv and the bottled version 4.0% abv (and a tad hoppier).

I'm originally from Cardiff. My go-to beer for many years (1978 to 2013) was Brains Dark.
Closest I've got, which, incidentally, was going to be my post to this thread as favourite ale recipe...

OG: 1.037. FG 1.010. IBU: 22-ish

75% pale malt. Brains apparently use Optic. I use a mix of Maris & Flagon, Maris & GP or mild malt.
12% Dark muscovado sugar (invert 4, rather than 3, I think)
5% Medium crystal
5% Torrified wheat (head retention)
2% Chocolate malt (Brains say they use it)
(also see edit below)

Mash at 69c for an hour and mash out

EKG & Fuggles, 60 minute boil, I use 50:50 by IBU contribution, no aroma hops.

Danstar Windsor yeast.

Edit:
I moved on from the above, I posted from memory but I tweaked the last time I made it and got it a little better...
75% mild/pale malt
9% dark muscovado
6% flaked maize
5% medium crystal
3% dark crystal
2% chocolate

 

[Miraculix]

I'm originally from Cardiff. My go-to beer for many years (1978 to 2013) was Brains Dark.
Closest I've got, which, incidentally, was going to be my post to this thread as favourite ale recipe...

OG: 1.037. FG 1.037. IBU: 22-ish

75% pale malt. Brains apparently use Optic. I use a mix of Maris & Flagon, Maris & GP or mild malt.
12% Dark muscovado sugar (invert 4, rather than 3, I think)
5% Medium crystal
5% Torrified wheat (head retention)
2% Chocolate malt (Brains say they use it)

Mash at 69c for an hour and mash out

EKG & Fuggles, 60 minute boil, I use 50:50 by IBU contribution, no aroma hops.

Danstar Windsor yeast.

Sounds like a really nice beer to me.

 

[Drinking Sensibly]

Sounds like a really nice beer to me.

I like it a lot.

 

[Brewer dad]

I did a clone of Timothy Taylor’s landlord Pale Ale that came out really well. Nice simple grain bill and uses WY1469 which I had on hand. Never had the original but I really liked it and it was well received by others. I subbed hops for what I had on hand.

1.048 OG
99% Maris Otter
1% Black Malt

1oz Styrian Goldings 60min
1oz US Tettnang 60min
.75oz Styrian Goldings 5min
.75oz US Tettnang 0min

I’ve been using the West Yorkshire yeast in a couple different ales(Ordinary Bitter, Brown Ale), and this was my favorite so far. I think this yeast does better with some more IBU, it definitely has a nuttiness to it as advertised. Overall a nice drinkable beer that still packs great flavor.