MSK_Chess
enthusiastic learner
wow that does sound interesting. Yes that describes it exactly, bit of ester but fairly clean I would say.
Englisch Pale Ale - Tips and Advice
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wow that does sound interesting. Yes that describes it exactly, bit of ester but fairly clean I would say.
EnglishAndy
Well-Known Member
And you would be correct, it is very different in cask. Rich, complex, finely balanced and very much the younger brother of Bishops Finger. If all you've had is the bottled version then you're missing out.
Our local is a very good Shepherd Neame with everything kept exactly as it should be. Unfortunately about a year ago they stopped getting Spitfire in favour of the newer 'Gold' version. When I asked the landlord he said that the brewery weren't offering the standard version on the list he gets any more. Another victim of the fad for golden ales I suppose.
As for the yeast, just culture it up from a bottle of 1698 or drop Brewlab an email and tell them you're wanting to brew a 'Kentish style ale' and they'll get the hint and give you what you want
EnglishAndy
Well-Known Member
I do hope you get around to this. I've seen many a guess as to the malt bill in Spitfire but most look too complex to be what a commercial brewer would use in a mass market product.
Northern_Brewer
British - apparently some US company stole my name
WHAATT? Seriously, that's one of the most jaw-dropping things I've read on these boards - a Sheps house not even being offered Spitfire. The mind just boggles, it points to a serious rethink of their entire strategy. Are they aiming it at a young market or something - what else do they have on draught? This is an actual Sheps-owned pub?
I wouldn't say it's a fad for golden ales, it's just another of those generational changes. The stock ale drinkers thought porter was a fad, the porter drinkers thought mild was a fad, the mild drinkers thought brown bitter was a fad. There's been a pretty consistent trend through history of each generation rejecting the beer of their parents, and for preferring something lighter (qv the lager "fad"). And folk from Boddies country would say that golden ales are nothing new....
EnglishAndy
Well-Known Member
Yes it's Sheps owned and they get everything the brewery offers from the seasonal Early Bird and Late Red to the IPA, Christmas Ale (love that one) and Halloween specials. They also get a lot of experimental casks from the No.18 Yard pilot brewery. All on tap.
It's the regulars that have changed over the years. It used to be Spitfire, Bishops Finger, Canterbury Jack and Kent's Best. Now it's Whitstable Pale (VERY popular), Spitfire Gold and Bishops Finger.
You're probably right. Feedback from the brewers I speak to is that they sell at least double and sometimes a 3:1 ratio of their stock session golden ale to anything else on the bar.
MSK_Chess
enthusiastic learner
Yes I suspect so but not in the ratios described in the recipes i have seen online. Some had 13% crystal malt, wheat malt and torrified wheat????? I agree with English Andy above, most if not all British bitters are very simple beers, pale malt, some little crystal, occasionally wheat and chocolate and that's about it. I was unimpressed by London Pride in the bottle but again its probably very different in cask.
Northern_Brewer
British - apparently some US company stole my name
I still can't get my head round Sheps not even offering Spitfire as an option. It's just so weird that it feels like a publican playing the "blame the brewery" card when it's him that's made a commercial decision to put Finger on the bar rather than Spitfire. Which is still an unusual decision, but I can imagine circumstances where it might happen - but I really struggle with the idea of him not even being offered Spitfire.
Interesting on the ratios down your way - it's still less than you'll see in parts of the former Boddies territory, but still far higher than it used to be.
Northern_Brewer
British - apparently some US company stole my name
It seems to be a general thing, that USians think that normal brown bitter has about twice the amount of crystal that it actually does, and then wonder why it's so sweet. I don't know if it's because they're trying to control sweetness with the grist rather than the yeast, I guess if you only use US-05 then you need a lot more crystal than if you use a British-but-not-Burton yeast.
MSK_Chess
enthusiastic learner
Yes exactly. To me a great bitter should be slightly dry, malty to an extent yes, but balanced, not sweet! my goodness we are not brewing a Mild or a Heavy! Also I don't understand why some recipes had Styrian Goldings and Fuggles, makes no sense, either one or the other. Same as wheat, either a little wheat malt or some torrified wheat, not both! Man I love EKG and Target hops!
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TasunkaWitko
Well-Known Member
G'morning, gents - I wanted to drop a quick note and express my appreciation for keeping this discussion going. I am learning a LOT and enjoying every minute of it. 
For me, the choice of the Fuggles hops is sentimental more than anything. The first beer I brewed (a chocolate-maple porter) was with these hops, and they really appeal to me, especially this time of year.
We did do quite a bit of hunting last weekend, so I was unable to brew my beer at that time. Technical problems are keeping me from brewing this week, but perhaps this weekend!
For me, the choice of the Fuggles hops is sentimental more than anything. The first beer I brewed (a chocolate-maple porter) was with these hops, and they really appeal to me, especially this time of year.
We did do quite a bit of hunting last weekend, so I was unable to brew my beer at that time. Technical problems are keeping me from brewing this week, but perhaps this weekend!
I'm thinking along the lines of 5% crystal, a dash of wheat and a splash of brewers' caramel for colour. Indeed, trying to make up all the colour in crystal malt is nonsense...
Northern_Brewer
British - apparently some US company stole my name
While it's not my taste, there's a definite subcategory of bitter which goes heavy on the toffee, and some of those take that toffee and head off into sweetness. It's not a style I drink very much to be honest, I guess Pride and Bath Gem can head in that direction? I also suspect that USians think bitter is meant to taste sweet because they don't condition it for long enough or force-condition recipes intended for cask, so they get sugar in the final product that is intended to be fermented out.
Also I don't understand why some recipes had Styrian Goldings and Fuggles, makes no sense, either one or the other. Same as wheat, either a little wheat malt or some torrified wheat, not both! Man I love EKG and Target hops!
Love EKG, not such a fan of Target, but each to their own. There's actually lots of commercial beers that use both Fuggles and Styrian Goldings - see eg 1939 Barclay Perkins IPA or modern Truman's Runner. One could say it's a terroir thing, but more likely good commercial sense in diversifying suppliers, which makes it easier to ride bad harvests and agronomic variation - the 2017 Kent Fuggles are particularly earthy thanks to the dull August.
Another factor is that "Styrian Goldings", particularly in the US, can mean almost any Slovenian hop, in the same way that brewers used to use "Mid Kent" hops that were probably as much Tolhurst as the more prized Fuggles. So "Styrian Goldings" doesn't necessarily taste the same as Fuggles, it could include Celeia, Dragon, all sorts. Fortunately the EU have cracked down on that and in theory they should be sold by variety (eg Savijnski) and not as generic Styrian Goldings, but old habits die hard.
MSK_Chess
enthusiastic learner
Very interesting. I have a 100g of Celia that I got for free from the worcesterhopshop because they didn't have the Pilsner variety that I wanted. Simply don't know what to do with them. They have a very low alpha acid content, I don't even think its 2%
MSK_Chess
enthusiastic learner
Yes I found that when i was trying to get the SRM on the brewing software.
Brewers' caramel is great stuff. An ounce or up to two patent does the job too. I've coloured some beers and it's amazing the difference it makes to how it's perceived. I even made a porter that would have been amber without the caramel and my taste buds very much bought into it.
Northern_Brewer
British - apparently some US company stole my name
Celeia? I've not used it but supposedly it's similar to Fuggles with a bit more noble hop character, which sounds like it would fit most British styles and a lot of Continental ones. <2% alpha is even worse than my Tolhurst is meant to be and I thought that was bad, the guides suggest Celeia should be 3-6% normally, looking around I've seen one place offering 2016 at 3.76% and one at 2.03%. Not that it really matters if you're adding them late, arguably it could be seen as a bonus.
EnglishAndy
Well-Known Member
I've used Celeia in a low SRM ale about a year ago as a late and dry hop. I don't remember getting any of the Fuggle earthiness but I do recall a big burst of juicy herbal flavours that I really enjoyed.
What are you doing for yeast? Authentic English yeasts are the best, available from Wyeast and White Labs. Those pitchables cost $7 or $8 though and that’s a lot for a 1 gallon batch. You can harvest and re-use them though. Great choices for English Pale Ale are 1968, 1028, or 1099 mostly. 1968 is Fullers, 1028 is Bass/Worthington’s, 1099 is Whitbread.
Add crystal malt. Many English ales also use a percentage of invert sugar. Some flaked barley in the mix would be good for body, head, and mouthfeel. Flaked grains must be mashed with pale malt.
Kent Goldings and Fuggles are the work horse hops. I also like Northern Brewer for bittering in these styles. Brewer’s Gold is another nice flavor and aroma hop. Willamette is American Fuggle. Styrian Goldings is Slovinian Fuggle. Those are acceptable substitutes. The Brits are more and more commonly using American hops in their beers now, though.
Maybe think about getting a bigger brew pot and step up to making at least 3 gallon batches to make your time and energy investment worthwhile. 3 gallons will give you a case and a six pack.
Bill
Add crystal malt. Many English ales also use a percentage of invert sugar. Some flaked barley in the mix would be good for body, head, and mouthfeel. Flaked grains must be mashed with pale malt.
Kent Goldings and Fuggles are the work horse hops. I also like Northern Brewer for bittering in these styles. Brewer’s Gold is another nice flavor and aroma hop. Willamette is American Fuggle. Styrian Goldings is Slovinian Fuggle. Those are acceptable substitutes. The Brits are more and more commonly using American hops in their beers now, though.
Maybe think about getting a bigger brew pot and step up to making at least 3 gallon batches to make your time and energy investment worthwhile. 3 gallons will give you a case and a six pack.
Bill
MSK_Chess
enthusiastic learner
I've actually bought some calcium hydroxide for making Belgian Candi sugar. Normally people use an acid, citric acid or something for making invert sugar which comes out an amber colour being fairly pale, but if you want dark Belgian Candi sugar you need a protein source (DME) and to drastically alter the PH at higher temps to get the melanoidin reactions (thus the calcium hydroxide) I reckon 300g of Dark Belgian Candi sugar should add some interesting colour and some interesting flavour nuances as well.
MSK_Chess
enthusiastic learner
By the way does anyone know how to make pickling lime? Essentialy its calcium hydroxide dissolved in water I think but I don't know what proportions to use.
Northern_Brewer
British - apparently some US company stole my name
1098 is Whitbread B which is far more widely used both historically in commercial breweries and among homebrewers than 1099, it's also WLP007 and the ancestor of S-04. But most British homebrewers start with Nottingham, maybe S-04.
Flaked barley in stouts maybe, but torrified wheat is far more common in ordinary bitters.
You don't see Kent Goldings marketed it's either East Kent Goldings which is a protected designation (like Champagne etc), or simply "Goldings" which are the same varieties grown in Hereford/Worcester which are also good, but you can get some terroir differences.
But neither of these are really grown or used in the UK these days - you get them a bit in Belgium/Germany, but that's all. Even the trad British hop growers use the second-generation Wye hops which are more disease resistant - Challenger, Northdown etc - and many are moving onto the third-gen hops like Admiral, Pilgrim and First Gold.
Willamette is not Fuggle but a derivative with a different chromosome count, and the different climate means it doesn't taste the same, Fuggles doesn't really have geraniol and has less farnesene to mention two.
As we've been discussing above, Fuggles in Slovenia is Savinjski Goldings, whereas Styrian Goldings is a blend of different Slovenian varieties, and the name is now deprecated.
@MSK_Chess in the absence of other information I'd go for around 3% calcium hydroxide - say 4oz/gal - but you want to be careful that it doesn't mess with any of your pH's downstream, whether brewing or in particular when pickling, botulism is not a good look.
MSK_Chess
enthusiastic learner
Thanks NB, the amount needed to drive the PH to basic is really very small, a few drops made up in a solution is all that is really needed. Check video out at 8:43, author literally adds about 10-20ml. As far as I can tell, limewater is considered saturated at levels of 1.5g/L making what we add to our sugar to drive reactions practically negligible me thinks. I really wonder how prevalent the use of invert sugar is in the British brewing industry. As you are aware many of Wheelers recipes call for the use of sugars and if my memory serves me correctly when he attempted to ascertain from the breweries what they were using he had no choice but to assume that sugars were being utilised because the grain bill did not add up to the finished products specifications. Personally I have always resisted the use of sugars and wonder what kind of characteristics they might add.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25ohU8GfAJk[/ame]
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TasunkaWitko
Well-Known Member
Yesterday, 19 February, I was - finally! - able to brew this beer. I am up to my neck in a busy week already, so I will keep it short; however, as far as I can tell, everything went very well with the brew and I encountered no difficulties that I can recall.
As soon as I can, I'll post the final recipe that was actually brewed. I'm pretty sure it is the same as the latest one posted here; but just in case it isn't, I'll add it for the record. The only major change that I can think of off the top of my head is that I eliminated the dry-hopping step, as I've tried a couple-three dry-hopped beers and simply wasn't impressed with the result.
Judging by what I saw, smelled and tasted during the brew, I think I've got some great things happening; I'll post more as events develop.
Ron
As soon as I can, I'll post the final recipe that was actually brewed. I'm pretty sure it is the same as the latest one posted here; but just in case it isn't, I'll add it for the record. The only major change that I can think of off the top of my head is that I eliminated the dry-hopping step, as I've tried a couple-three dry-hopped beers and simply wasn't impressed with the result.
Judging by what I saw, smelled and tasted during the brew, I think I've got some great things happening; I'll post more as events develop.
Ron
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TasunkaWitko
Well-Known Member
Okay - as promised, here is the recipe that was actually brewed - nothing fancy, just a good, simple, (hopefully) representative English Pale Ale that does justice to the style.
My temperatures have been up and down during this ferment, due to our chaotic weather and environmental factors within the home. We'll see how it turns out; but so far it seems pretty good. The aroma has got a lot of toffee or maybe caramel quality to it, I assume from the Carastan. The colour is really nice, as well.
I won't know until I taste it, but the hop presence might be a bit more subtle than I expected; I was going for something just slightly less than middle-of-the-road where hops is concerned, so this might be exactly what I ordered. We'll see, but it seems off to a decent start.
My temperatures have been up and down during this ferment, due to our chaotic weather and environmental factors within the home. We'll see how it turns out; but so far it seems pretty good. The aroma has got a lot of toffee or maybe caramel quality to it, I assume from the Carastan. The colour is really nice, as well.
I won't know until I taste it, but the hop presence might be a bit more subtle than I expected; I was going for something just slightly less than middle-of-the-road where hops is concerned, so this might be exactly what I ordered. We'll see, but it seems off to a decent start.
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TasunkaWitko
Well-Known Member
I put this in to cold crash recently, and expect to bottle it this weekend. I caught a whiff of it, and I think this one is going to turn out better than I expected. It smelled great, with a lot of malt character, and the hops that I was previously having trouble finding seemed to be making themselves known in good proportion.
Will it be a "proper" English Pale Ale? I don't know, for sure, but it will certainly be a nice beer, I think ~
Will it be a "proper" English Pale Ale? I don't know, for sure, but it will certainly be a nice beer, I think ~
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TasunkaWitko
Well-Known Member
I wasn't able to make a note of it at the time, but I bottled this beer on the evening of Friday, March 30th. I was actually able to get 10 bottles and as far as I can tell, they are carbonating away, as we speak. I went for a "medium" carbonation with this; afterwards, I got to thinking that a "low" carbonation might be more "appropriate to style," but it's all good.
There was enough left over after bottling for a small sample, and early indications are that this is going to turn out well. I was concerned that I might have backed off on the IBUs a little too much, but it actually seemed to be balanced very well, which was surprising and gratifying. The colour is a nice bronze-looking hue; I was expecting a bit more orange or reddishness to it, but I could very easily have been wrong to expect that. This is my first beer of this style, and I haven't really anything in my experience to compare it to (except a couple of samples of Bass), so I am flying a little blind. It smelled very good as well, with a whiff of caramel and toffee notes...or something along those lines - and perhaps a little toastiness. There was also a good presence from the Fuggle hops that I really enjoyed, giving the beer a well-grounded character that is good for this time of year, as the snow melts and exposes damp earth, wet leaves and other aromas of early spring. The taste of the beer (so far) goes hand-in-hand with the smells, and I had a very hard time picking out any one characteristic; but at the same time, I got a nice blend of all of them.
Cautiously optimistic, I am...I may have done quite well for a first attempt!
There was enough left over after bottling for a small sample, and early indications are that this is going to turn out well. I was concerned that I might have backed off on the IBUs a little too much, but it actually seemed to be balanced very well, which was surprising and gratifying. The colour is a nice bronze-looking hue; I was expecting a bit more orange or reddishness to it, but I could very easily have been wrong to expect that. This is my first beer of this style, and I haven't really anything in my experience to compare it to (except a couple of samples of Bass), so I am flying a little blind. It smelled very good as well, with a whiff of caramel and toffee notes...or something along those lines - and perhaps a little toastiness. There was also a good presence from the Fuggle hops that I really enjoyed, giving the beer a well-grounded character that is good for this time of year, as the snow melts and exposes damp earth, wet leaves and other aromas of early spring. The taste of the beer (so far) goes hand-in-hand with the smells, and I had a very hard time picking out any one characteristic; but at the same time, I got a nice blend of all of them.
Cautiously optimistic, I am...I may have done quite well for a first attempt!
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TasunkaWitko
Well-Known Member
I was able to sample this beer for the first time on 21 April:
From all indications, it turned out beautifully for a first attempt, and I see no reason why it can't be my "go-to" recipe for an English Pale Ale. There was very good balance between the malts and the hops; I think that my choice of Fuggle hops was spot-on for this grain bill. The Carastan 30/37 seemed to give it a little something that I really liked...something between caramel and toffee that did not take over, as I feared it would.
All-in-all, I am very happy with this beer.
From all indications, it turned out beautifully for a first attempt, and I see no reason why it can't be my "go-to" recipe for an English Pale Ale. There was very good balance between the malts and the hops; I think that my choice of Fuggle hops was spot-on for this grain bill. The Carastan 30/37 seemed to give it a little something that I really liked...something between caramel and toffee that did not take over, as I feared it would.
All-in-all, I am very happy with this beer.
Northern_Brewer
British - apparently some US company stole my name
Good stuff, glad it worked for you. My comments looking at that picture would be that it's a bit pale for an English bitter (weird exceptions like Boddington's aside) and it does look a bit overcarbonated, although you need a bit more carbonation in bottle than you would have in cask. The head looks a bit "bubbly" for want of a better word, when it should be smoother and creamier.
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TasunkaWitko
Well-Known Member
NB - thank you for your feedback - as a Montanan with no access to "the real thing," I am grateful. You touched on the three things that I also noticed about this beer; my lack of experience, however, kept me from speaking up.
I can go for a little less carbonation next time, no trouble at all. As for the colour, would you recommend a touch more with the black patent, or would there be a "better" way?
Where the head is concerned, I understand exactly what you are talking about. Usually, the beers I've brewed seem to have some slight head issues when very young; I am not sure if it is something in my method, or not, but the head in almost all of my beers seems to improve much over a little time. I'll see how it looks again in two or three weeks, and will consider options, from there. I am not sure what I can do, without altering the recipe (which I am open to doing, as long as it stays "authentic).
I can go for a little less carbonation next time, no trouble at all. As for the colour, would you recommend a touch more with the black patent, or would there be a "better" way?
Where the head is concerned, I understand exactly what you are talking about. Usually, the beers I've brewed seem to have some slight head issues when very young; I am not sure if it is something in my method, or not, but the head in almost all of my beers seems to improve much over a little time. I'll see how it looks again in two or three weeks, and will consider options, from there. I am not sure what I can do, without altering the recipe (which I am open to doing, as long as it stays "authentic).
Northern_Brewer
British - apparently some US company stole my name
This is a pretty classic pint of Bass - which AIUI comes it at just about spot-on 10SRM or 20EBC if you see references to colour in technical sources :
https://boakandbailey.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/perfect_bass.jpg
I might quibble a bit at the size of the bubbles on the head, but it was in a southern pub so likely without a sparkler (the with/without sparkler debate is an endless one for cask ale fans - a sparkler makes the head creamier but some would say knocks some flavour out). Ignore the bit at the bottom, but otherwise it's a classic copper-coloured British bitter or pale ale (pale in comparison to the porters that preceded it).
But there's quite a bit of variation around that typical colour, and in general modern beers have got a bit paler. So I wouldn't sweat it too much. British brewers wouldn't use patent in their bitters, colour adjustment was almost always done with caramel or one of the darker invert sugars. Personally I find that Maris Otter with 5% crystal 80 comes out looking about "right" without having to adjust anything - but British pale malts and particularly Otter are a bit darker than their foreign counterparts.
I think your final recipe had no wheat in it? 5% torrified wheat (or unflaked wheat if you can't get torrified) will help sort out your head.
https://boakandbailey.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/perfect_bass.jpg
I might quibble a bit at the size of the bubbles on the head, but it was in a southern pub so likely without a sparkler (the with/without sparkler debate is an endless one for cask ale fans - a sparkler makes the head creamier but some would say knocks some flavour out). Ignore the bit at the bottom, but otherwise it's a classic copper-coloured British bitter or pale ale (pale in comparison to the porters that preceded it).
But there's quite a bit of variation around that typical colour, and in general modern beers have got a bit paler. So I wouldn't sweat it too much. British brewers wouldn't use patent in their bitters, colour adjustment was almost always done with caramel or one of the darker invert sugars. Personally I find that Maris Otter with 5% crystal 80 comes out looking about "right" without having to adjust anything - but British pale malts and particularly Otter are a bit darker than their foreign counterparts.
I think your final recipe had no wheat in it? 5% torrified wheat (or unflaked wheat if you can't get torrified) will help sort out your head.
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TasunkaWitko
Well-Known Member
There's some very good information there, NB - thanks. ~
I should note that my beer was crystal clear, until I had to drive about 8 miles on bumpy dirt roads to get where I was going; an alternate route, due to local flooding.
For this, I used Carastan 30/37, and really liked the flavour that I got out of it; the Black Patent was suggested by another member from the UK, earlier in the thread. Perhaps I'll cut the Carastan in half, then make up the difference with Crystal 80; I'd want to push the colour in the right direction, without changing the taste that I've achieved too much.
If the head doesn't improve over the next couple of weeks, I'll add the torrified wheat, which sounds like it would do the trick.
On a different note, I did buy a tin of dark invert sugar (Lyon's, I think?) - do you see a role for this in future attempts, or would that be considered an "adulteration?"
I should note that my beer was crystal clear, until I had to drive about 8 miles on bumpy dirt roads to get where I was going; an alternate route, due to local flooding.
For this, I used Carastan 30/37, and really liked the flavour that I got out of it; the Black Patent was suggested by another member from the UK, earlier in the thread. Perhaps I'll cut the Carastan in half, then make up the difference with Crystal 80; I'd want to push the colour in the right direction, without changing the taste that I've achieved too much.
If the head doesn't improve over the next couple of weeks, I'll add the torrified wheat, which sounds like it would do the trick.
On a different note, I did buy a tin of dark invert sugar (Lyon's, I think?) - do you see a role for this in future attempts, or would that be considered an "adulteration?"
Northern_Brewer
British - apparently some US company stole my name
Well if you're going for "purist" then crystal would be far more authentic than Carastan, but I understand what it's like getting ingredients sometimes.
The black patent thing is influenced by a bit of a kick-back against the use of sugars in British brewing, but the fact is that since tax laws changed in the 19th century, up to 10% sugar has been completely normal in most of those beers that you think of as classic British beers. So don't have qualms about using sugar in British beers - if nothing else it helps balance the lower attenuation of British yeast to get it back in balance.
Probably Lyle's? The green tin is golden syrup which is the colour of your beer, has a fairly light but slightly caramel taste and is a well-accepted homebrew "hack" to replace brewing sugars (and can also be used for treacle tart (sic) which is just pure sugary evil goodness).
The red tin is black treacle, which is a kind of molasses, but not as strong-tasting as your blackstrap, apparently Old Grandma's brand is a close equivalent to Lyle's. Black treacle is still not the sort of thing you'd use routinely in a bitter, other than perhaps in tiny amounts to colour it, it would probably be most useful in a quadrupel or barleywine or something as it does have quite a distinctive taste. It's also used quite a bit in all the nice kinds of cooking that are bad for you...
The black patent thing is influenced by a bit of a kick-back against the use of sugars in British brewing, but the fact is that since tax laws changed in the 19th century, up to 10% sugar has been completely normal in most of those beers that you think of as classic British beers. So don't have qualms about using sugar in British beers - if nothing else it helps balance the lower attenuation of British yeast to get it back in balance.
Probably Lyle's? The green tin is golden syrup which is the colour of your beer, has a fairly light but slightly caramel taste and is a well-accepted homebrew "hack" to replace brewing sugars (and can also be used for treacle tart (sic) which is just pure sugary evil goodness).
The red tin is black treacle, which is a kind of molasses, but not as strong-tasting as your blackstrap, apparently Old Grandma's brand is a close equivalent to Lyle's. Black treacle is still not the sort of thing you'd use routinely in a bitter, other than perhaps in tiny amounts to colour it, it would probably be most useful in a quadrupel or barleywine or something as it does have quite a distinctive taste. It's also used quite a bit in all the nice kinds of cooking that are bad for you...
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TasunkaWitko
Well-Known Member
Green tin! Yes! It must have been Lyle's Golden - my apologies.
Treacle Tart? Consider me interested....
Reading a bit of description, it looks like Crystal 80 would give me what I am looking for, both in terms of colour and taste; the description that I read even mentioned that it helps with head retention. I will pick some up and try it, next time.
Treacle Tart? Consider me interested....
Reading a bit of description, it looks like Crystal 80 would give me what I am looking for, both in terms of colour and taste; the description that I read even mentioned that it helps with head retention. I will pick some up and try it, next time.
@TasunkaWitko are you going to do a Belgianish pale ale next, or Germanish, or Australianish? Or something else-ish? (serious question, I enjoy these threads)
Or something else-ish? (serious question, I enjoy these threads)
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TasunkaWitko
Well-Known Member
My son's working on an Australian - he picked up some Australian hops and is working on a grain bill.
My next project is a clone of Moosehead Canadian Lager; I'm calling it "Elchkopf."
My next project is a clone of Moosehead Canadian Lager; I'm calling it "Elchkopf."
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TasunkaWitko
Well-Known Member
Last night, 11 May, I enjoyed another one of these excellent beers:
According the BJCP guidelines (2015), this English Pale Ale is more properly called a Special, Best or Premium Bitter; however, I find that term to be a bit easy to misunderstand, as there is nothing exceptionally bitter about it. Indeed, I find it to be very well-balanced, especially now, as the caramel of the malt is beginning to peek out a bit. This is a good thing, as I have been told by many that this style of beer is all abut balance. Because of this, it will always be - to me - just an English Pale Ale, just as Pluto will always be a planet.
Anyway, as I said, it is my opinion that this beer is really coming into its own. I've seen some good improvement in the head, and it has become a very tasty, very drinkable beer; it was before, but it is even more so now.
Having said that, I do see a little room for improvement, and plan to make a couple of small tweaks the next time I make this, based on some helpful feedback from a few folks across the pond. The first one is to use a darker Crystal malt than the Carastan 30/37 that I used for this; this will allow me to drop the Black Patent, which is only there for a little colour. I will also bring the hops up just a bit; to keep it in balance as well as to bring a little more aroma and flavor of the Fuggle Hops to the party...not much, just a little dab. Finally, I am considering adding a touch of wheat to improve the head; I'm still on the fence about this, but it is an option.
With all that in mind, I have a very good start to a really nice beer that I plan to improve and brew much more in the future.
According the BJCP guidelines (2015), this English Pale Ale is more properly called a Special, Best or Premium Bitter; however, I find that term to be a bit easy to misunderstand, as there is nothing exceptionally bitter about it. Indeed, I find it to be very well-balanced, especially now, as the caramel of the malt is beginning to peek out a bit. This is a good thing, as I have been told by many that this style of beer is all abut balance. Because of this, it will always be - to me - just an English Pale Ale, just as Pluto will always be a planet.
Anyway, as I said, it is my opinion that this beer is really coming into its own. I've seen some good improvement in the head, and it has become a very tasty, very drinkable beer; it was before, but it is even more so now.
Having said that, I do see a little room for improvement, and plan to make a couple of small tweaks the next time I make this, based on some helpful feedback from a few folks across the pond. The first one is to use a darker Crystal malt than the Carastan 30/37 that I used for this; this will allow me to drop the Black Patent, which is only there for a little colour. I will also bring the hops up just a bit; to keep it in balance as well as to bring a little more aroma and flavor of the Fuggle Hops to the party...not much, just a little dab. Finally, I am considering adding a touch of wheat to improve the head; I'm still on the fence about this, but it is an option.
With all that in mind, I have a very good start to a really nice beer that I plan to improve and brew much more in the future.
EnglishAndy
Well-Known Member
Don't worry about the BJCP categories for classic British Ales. I must have drunk the lot over the last 30 years up and down the country and I simply don't recognise the divisions they've artificially created within the bitter style. In my stubborn yorkshire mind it's a bitter and then it's a strong ale and that's that!
Northern_Brewer
British - apparently some US company stole my name
If you hit the 32IBU that you planned in your recipe then that's pretty much spot on for a bitter, which was named in comparison to mild and porter rather than in comparison to modern hop bombs.
Whilst there's lots of the BJCP to disagree with, the distinction between "ordinary" bitter and Best is definitely one that exists in the real world of British pubs, obviously Andy thinks Best is the new ordinary!
