Elusive CO2 Leak

[dmcmillen]

My kegerator has 4 Taparite regulators fed (see 1st pic) from a tank outside of kegerator (see 2nd pic below). I have isolated a slow leak to the middle regulator (see pic) by pressurizing the system and then turning off the gas. At first I thought there wasn't really a leak and it was just the old NADS regulator closest to the tank (see 2nd pic) because the middle Taprite regulator would hold pressure and the needle would slowly go down on the NADS regulator feeding the kegerator, but then I left it pressurized overnight and low and behold the Taprite had dropped from 10 to 5 lbs telling me I have a leak somewhere downstream from that regulator.

First of all I have ordered replacements for the old NADS regulators which will get here in a couple of days. Been wanting to do that for a while.

Secondly, I have repressurized several of times to make sure I have enough pressure at the regulator, and then tested with both starsan and soapy water and a mirror and I'll be damned if I can find any leak. There aren't many places it can be. The only thing that is unusual is that the face of the regulator dial has a very small crack. Not even sure if it is cracked all the way through. I am at my wits end here. The only thing I can think to do is to pull that regulator and reinstall the wye and valves. Any suggestions here?

 

[mongoose33]

Are you sure it's not the QD on the keg?

Or that there isn't a slow leak at one of the posts on the keg?

I just cleaned kegs on Saturday, then readied two because I'm selling 'em. Pressurized them to ensure integrity before selling, and lo and behold, one leaks. I traced the leak to the gas-in post, disassembled it and discovered the plastic piece under the poppet was cracked. I replaced it with a spare I had and voila! Leak solved.

Have you submerged the QDs in a tub of star-san to see if there's a leak in the QD or in the connection w/ the tubing?

Another option, not the most pleasant, is to remove everything and submerge in a tub of star-san and see if you can see any leaks.

Just some ideas. BTW, I like the way the secondaries are spread out in your keezer. Mine are all together and it makes for some interesting organizing of the lines.

 

[dmcmillen]

If you look at the pic, the middle regulator has a wye with 2 valves, and a hose connected to one of the valves. Notice that both valves are closed, so this leak is between the regulator and the valves. Anyway, there is no keg attached to the QD.

As a side note, in my experience QD's tend to leak when connected to the keg, especially if the keg valve oring has not been lubed which makes it difficult for the QD to seat properly. And some QDs are just plain hard to seat.

 

[mongoose33]

If you look at the pic, the middle regulator has a wye with 2 valves, and a hose connected to one of the valves. Notice that both valves are closed, so this leak is between the regulator and the valves. Anyway, there is no keg attached to the QD.

Maybe. You're assuming the two valves are perfect.

As a side note, in my experience QD's tend to leak when connected to the keg, especially if the keg valve oring has not been lubed which makes it difficult for the QD to seat properly. And some QDs are just plain hard to seat.

I have one here that I use for pressurizing kegs, blowing out star-san, and the like.

It leaked, when not connected to the keg. I've since replaced it with one that does not leak. Still, I always shut off the CO2 tank when not using it for extended periods.

 

[dmcmillen]

Maybe. You're assuming the two valves are perfect.

Yeh, the valves could be leaking. Shouldn't assume anything. Nothing surprises me any more. I'll go ahead and check them.

I have one here that I use for pressurizing kegs, blowing out star-san, and the like.

I could do what you're doing and use a 2nd co2 bottle to force carbonate the kegs. What I did was put 2 regulators on the tank, one to feed the kegerator and one for force carbonating or purging kegs. I already had the old regulators.

I have had a lot of trouble with the QDs over time. I've gotten in the habit of testing them for leaks whenever I put a new keg in before I connect to the keg and after. I love kegging over bottling but it can be a pain.

Still, I always shut off the CO2 tank when not using it for extended periods.

I have a friend who keeps his co2 cut off until his beer starts to tap slowly and then he turns it back on for a while precisely because he has had to deal with so many co2 leaks. How do you operate because I've been thinking about doing the same thing.

 

[mongoose33]

I have a friend who keeps his co2 cut off until his beer starts to tap slowly and then he turns it back on for a while precisely because he has had to deal with so many co2 leaks. How do you operate because I've been thinking about doing the same thing.

My keezer (knocking on wood) doesn't have any leaks. I've had a 5# tank running a 5-keg system for...well, a long time now. Months.

Probably run out tomorrow. But the tank gauge is still in the green.



The ferm chambers setup above is, as far as I know, without leaks. I can turn off the tank, come back in a few days, and there's still pressure in the lines. For now.

Couple of other places you might check is that you have nylon washers inside the swivel nuts. Tighten down the hose clamps. I'm sure you've already thought of it.

 

[dmcmillen]

Well, now I'm really scratching my head. Just got the wye where it's connected to the regulator and the 2 valves under water. Not even a bubble. The other 3 regulators are and have been holding pressure thru this whole ordeal. In the last two or three hours since I repressurized, the old NADS regulator needle has fallen about 4-5 psi and the middle Taprite is holding steady. I had to leave it overnite yesterday before the Taprite fell about 5 psi. That's why I originally thought that the diaphram in the old NADS regulator was probably bad. We'll see what it looks like in the morning??

 

[dmcmillen]

After leaving the system pressurized overnight (actually about 19 hours so far), this time the NADS regulator has dropped 14psi and the Taprite is holding steady, indicating that, as I originally believed, the NADS is faulty (probably a bad diaphram). I will replace the NADS when I receive the new regulator tomorrow.

However, that leaves me with 2 different long term test results. One where the Taprite dropped 5 psi overnight and now one where it stayed steady. Those 2 tests with no other changes to the setup. Not a warm fuzzy feeling. More questions than answers.

Could the Taprite possibly be intermittently defective; it is a relatively new regulator (about a year and a half old). On the other hand, at the end of the 1st test when the Taprite dropped 5 psi overnight, when I opened the valve on the regulator, there was barely any pressure to be relieved indicating that there was a leak.

Could the small crack in the face have anything to do with it?

At this point I don't know what to think. Anyone have any thoughts???

 

[jmcquesten]

I got rid of my shut-off/check valves in favor of check valves only and have been good ever since. Those shut-off valves are cheap and I think they are the weak link in a co2 system.

 

[dmcmillen]

I got rid of my shut-off/check valves in favor of check valves only and have been good ever since. Those shut-off valves are cheap and I think they are the weak link in a co2 system.

Thanks for that input. Interesting, because the problem with the one regulator intermittently dropping in pressure was due to the bonnet not being tightened enough to the regulator body. However, in the whole process, I found the 2 shut-off/check valves on the regulators at the tank were both leaking. I had assumed it was just the old NASD regulators with bad diaphrams. You know what they say about assume. If you have a line attached with a QD, you may never know.

Which check valves do you use and how to you attach to regulator? Got any pics?

 

[jmcquesten]

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/index.php?posts/8272077

 

[jmcquesten]

I'll grab a picture when I get a chance.

 

[dmcmillen]

My first thought is that I have 10 shut-off/check valves so that would be over $150 to convert. 2nd thought is that if I have pressure to the regulator, I would have to cap or connect a QD to the unused lines because valve would be open. day-trippr tests his, but that just tells the condition when he puts in service.

 

[day_trippr]

Absolutely, any post test failure would put me in the same hunter mode as the OP, with all that might entail. Fortunately shut-offs aren't operated frequently so wear-out is unlikely, leaving most failures on the infant side...

Cheers!

 

[dmcmillen]

day_trippr, I do like your idea of pre-testing, something I've become pretty anal about, especially after this last round. Great when everything is holding, maddening when you get a leak. And you have a lot more shut-offs than I do. Like you I've had plugs, swivels, QDs, and keg lids leak. This is my first time with a leaky valve and the bonnet not being tight enough on the regulator body. Knock on wood, never had a problem with a manifold. One of the things that helped me early on was learning to pressurize the system, turn the gas off and then isolating the pressure drop. I remember that was a slap my head moment. Too obvious.

May the Beer Gods be with you!