Electric indoor brewers: What size (CFM) bathroom fan? (pics)

[kal]

Question for you electric indoor brewers: What size (CFM) range hood or bathroom ceiling fan do you use?

My electric setup is in a basement coldroom that is very small: 5.6' wide, 11' long, 7' high. 60 sq feet of floor space, 430 cubic feet of air. There are two 4" diameter vents to the outside of the house. One will be used for air intake, the other will be attached to a bathroom ceiling fan directly above the boil kettle to exhaust to outside. It's only a 4 foot distance without bends so any CFM drop due to resistance should be minimal.

100 CFM enough? 200 CFM? More? Without actually doing a 10-15 gallon full wort boil for an hour or two, I have no idea what I'll need. The room has a solid core door between it and the rest of the house.

Kal

 

[pizzaman]

Those pics make me feel drunk, do you have a special lens on there?

(Sorry, no real input from me on this one)

 

[kal]

Yup. Pictures were taken with an extreme wide angle lens (Canon 10-22mm EFS).

Kal

 

[Brewers Hardware]

The tiled ceiling will sure help with moisture control, but I'd recommend you get an inexpensive kitchen hood with a fan and maybe even put a pull-fan at the outlet. Being electric you don't have to worry about CO2 or CO but I would try to remove as much moisture from your basement as possible so you don't end up with mold problems.

Very nice setup BTW.

 

[HellenicHomeBrewer]

i LOVE those BoilerMakers!! :drool:

 

[samc]

If it were me I would be looking at commercial sized vent hood fan, assuming the noise did not drive you nutty. Thinking its like taking a two hour hot shower and after, you realize that the typical bathroom vent fan just did not do the job. I would go with 400 CFM on a variable control (rheostat) switch, which is what I used when I had a commercial style kitchen hood in my old house. I'd also wear earbuds plugged into a walkman or ipod.

Also hopefully you have fresh air coming in and have not sealed up the door too tight. Nice looking brew room - do you have a floor drain so you hose the place down when
done brewing?

I really want that sink & commercial style faucet - any pricing/model info you can pass along- must have now! LOL

 

[user 29649]

The inline fan from vortex I just put in works great and its wisper quiet. With that smaller space I would use the 4" model. You can always put a cheap speed controller on it and dial it down. Better to have more fan then not enough.

Mike

 

[JZinNM]

Nice setup! I would think a 100 cfm fan would be enough as it would provide an exchange of air every 5 minutes or so. However, this depends on where your air inlet is located. Is it located in the same hole as the outlet? If the inlet is too close to the outlet, you could "short circuit" your air flow and moisture could build up in the other areas of your brew room. Another consideration is that the outlet pipe will have very moist air flowing through it. You should slope the outlet pipe away from your fan. In other words, it is likely that water will condense in the outlet pipe, collect, and then flow. You don't want it to trickle back into the room and drip into your boil kettle when you turn off the fan.

 

[kal]

Thanks guys!

Also hopefully you have fresh air coming in and have not sealed up the door too tight.

Nice setup! I would think a 100 cfm fan would be enough as it would provide an exchange of air every 5 minutes or so. However, this depends on where your air inlet is located. Is it located in the same hole as the outlet? If the inlet is too close to the outlet, you could "short circuit" your air flow and moisture could build up in the other areas of your brew room.

I've added a couple of photos to my original post to help see the big picture and answer your questions. Let me know what you think:

Nice looking brew room - do you have a floor drain so you hose the place down when done brewing?

I installed have a drain (stack) for the sink but no floor drain unfortunately. It's something I would have really liked (so that I could simply hose things down and be done with) but that would require digging up part of the concrete floor to put in a trap and then retiling. Not worth it IMHO.

I really want that sink & commercial style faucet - any pricing/model info you can pass along- must have now! LOL

The sink was bought locally (Canadian made) from a restaurant supply store. Brand name is Tarrison, model PS1-24. Here's a PDF: http://www.tarrison.com/catalog/catalog_sections/Tarrison_pg.16-21.pdf

Figure $300-400 USD for a single tube stainless sink, no faucet(s). Ebay has nice sinks too but being in Canada means that the shipping would have been insane so I bought the sink locally. Shipping within the US is typically very cheap for anything.

The pre-rinse unit with 12" facet is from B&K Resources out of the US. MOdel # BKF-VSMPR-WB-AF12. Link: https://bk-resources.c2.ixwebhosting.com/Groups.asp?Prod=3&Page=1&Group=0&hdg=Prerinse Units
Bought off of ebay for ~$130. About 1/3 the price of buying locally even after you add in any extra taxes/fees/duties.

Kal

 

[conpewter]

I have a 160CFM range hood. I'd double that if I was to do it over again. On a 60 minute boil I get condensation on the hood itself, some steam also escapes around the outside.

 

[kal]

Another consideration is that the outlet pipe will have very moist air flowing through it. You should slope the outlet pipe away from your fan. In other words, it is likely that water will condense in the outlet pipe, collect, and then flow. You don't want it to trickle back into the room and drip into your boil kettle when you turn off the fan.

Good point. Putting a slope in will (unfortunately) not be possible as the outlet outside the house is actually a couple of inches higher. I was hoping (maybe naively) to be able to keep running the fan for a good 20-30 mins after the boil to make sure all humidity was out. This would (hopefully?) dry out most of the water too (?).

Kal

 

[kronik]

4" vents are pretty constrictive. I would make them 6" or 8" for better flow and less noise, if possible. Especially if you put in a 400 cfm vent. A nice large stainless hood sure would look and work good in that room with those blingmanns...

 

[kal]

I have a 160CFM range hood. I'd double that if I was to do it over again. On a 60 minute boil I get condensation on the hood itself, some steam also escapes around the outside.

Thanks!

Is the range hood directly connected to the outside like a 'typical' install over a stove? Or is there a distance to go with lots of twists and turns? What diameter duct? Just curious as these all factor into greatly reducing the overall CFM. That 160CFM fan may only be doing 80CFM once you factor in the duct distance/diameter/turns.

Kal

 

[kal]

4" vents are pretty constrictive. I would make them 6" or 8" for better flow and less noise, if possible. Especially if you put in a 400 cfm vent.

You've read my mind...

I'm starting to think that a 4" diameter duct isn't going to be enough. Range hoods typically use a 7" circular duct or a 10x3" rectangular duct. That gives you a LOT more air movement and less air flow restriction. In fact, the larger bathroom ceiling fans also use larger 10x3" rectangular ducts to get the 200+ CFM that some of them are capable of doing.

Those holes to the outside are 4" in diameter and go through almost a foot of concrete as they're in the house poured foundation (this is a basement room)! I have no idea how I'd enlarge those or if I'd even want to attempt something like that. Crap.

Kal

 

[kronik]

"Those holes to the outside are 4" in diameter and go through almost a foot of concrete as they're in the house poured foundation (this is a basement room)! I have no idea how I'd enlarge those or if I'd even want to attempt something like that. Crap."

I bet a convict could do it with a tooth brush...LoL

There must be some tool for the job. Not sure what I would do for that one. Hmmm.

 

[kal]

Updated one the pictures to show the outside:

Kal

 

[kronik]

After looking at the pics again, it looks like those holes were made after the room? Like they were chiseled or sawzall'd.

 

[kronik]

Being in Canada, I bet I know what that room used to be used for...:cross:

 

[kronik]

I would trade a handy friend some brew or something. I don't think it's impossible to make at least the outtake bigger.

 

[kal]

The inline fan from vortex I just put in works great and its wisper quiet. With that smaller space I would use the 4" model. You can always put a cheap speed controller on it and dial it down. Better to have more fan then not enough.

Interesting Mike. Is it rated for use in humid locations? Other inline fans (like Nutone) are not for use in bathrooms. Got a link to the Vortex manufacturer website by chance? Google's only finding hydroponic sites that resell it.

Edit: Vortex fans are build by a company called 'Atmosphere' out of Canada. Found their website here: http://www.atmosphere.com/English/vortex.htm
No info on humidity but given that they're used mostly by dope growers in high humdity environments and run 24/7, I'd probably be ok.

Kal

 

[JZinNM]

Running the fan for a while after the brew should take care of the condensation. You could also install a "lowpoint" in the duct between the fan and the wall. It could be a "tee" with the bottom pointing towards your sink. Put a valve on the tee or even a threaded plug and open it up after you're done brewing.

The location of the air intake might be a problem. It looks the incoming air would "channel" directly from the intake to the fan. You could consider putting an elbow on the intake and directing it towards the floor. Another idea would be to install two fans and exhaust out both holes and leave the door open for the air intake.

By the way - that triple Blichman setup looks really nice.

 

[kal]

After looking at the pics again, it looks like those holes were made after the room? Like they were chiseled or sawzall'd.

The holes are building installed (all the houses on the street have them). The previous owner for whatever reason framed and drywalled this cold room, and then decided to go with tiled walls on top of that. So everything's dropped a bit and in a bit so the vents are slightly offset.

Kal

 

[kal]

Running the fan for a while after the brew should take care of the condensation. You could also install a "lowpoint" in the duct between the fan and the wall. It could be a "tee" with the bottom pointing towards your sink. Put a valve on the tee or even a threaded plug and open it up after you're done brewing.

Not a bad idea. The duct passes directly over the sink (which I always thought would be a pain).

The location of the air intake might be a problem. It looks the incoming air would "channel" directly from the intake to the fan. You could consider putting an elbow on the intake and directing it towards the floor. Another idea would be to install two fans and exhaust out both holes and leave the door open for the air intake.

Yes, some sort of 4" pipe to the floor or at least half way into the room along the wall would help. Exhausting out both is also an interesting idea. That would double the output without me having to chisel or try and make one existing hole bigger.

By the way - that triple Blichman setup looks really nice.

Thanks! I like it too.

Kal

 

[conpewter]

My fan has about 5' of 7" round ducting on it to go outside through what used to be a window.

Part of it can be seen here
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/cold-dead-hands-electric-brew-rig-action-118232/

 

[kal]

My fan has about 5' of 7" round ducting on it to go outside through what used to be a window.

Part of it can be seen here
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/cold-dead-hands-electric-brew-rig-action-118232/

Thanks. That's a pretty direct path and 7" is a huge duct:

I'm going to have to do bigger/larger for sure than what I thought of doing (which was around 200CFM into a 4" duct).

Kal

 

[kronik]

I would maybe get 2 inline 4" fans and exhaust out both of those ports and either leave the door open or install a square vent in the bottom half of the door so it could stay shut if that was needed.

 

[conpewter]

Thanks. That's a pretty direct path and 7" is a huge duct:


I'm going to have to do bigger/larger for sure than what I thought of doing (which was around 200CFM into a 4" duct).

Kal

It does cut down the moisture a lot, but better to run it right the first time now that you know. As suggested by the other poster I'd do the two 4" ducts with inline fans (Or squirrel cages at the ends?). If it is worth doing... it is worth over-doing

 

[Sean]

I would maybe get 2 inline 4" fans and exhaust out both of those ports and either leave the door open or install a square vent in the bottom half of the door so it could stay shut if that was needed.

That is what I was thinking, use both those holes as exhaust, and get your make up air from the rest of the house, or at least from another room, so you do not end up with the channeling issue someone else mentioned. But then you are blowing a lot of heat out of the house in the winter. Perhaps you have another air source in your basement?

I love that room. Being in the south, my first thought was, Man it is going to get HOT in that room, but that is probably not your real concern.

 

[kal]

Thanks guys - been thinking about this more and the dual 4" in-line exhaust seems to make the most sense in my head too.

Just not sure what to put over the kettle to funnel. Some sort of hood?

Kal

 

[Dwain]

One thing you could do to enlarge the holes. Lay out the bigger holes with a piece of cardboard. Once you go over it in your mind about 10 times, rent/borrow a 1/2" hammer drill and 1/4" & 3/8" bits. You should be able to rent/buy long enough drill bits to get through. Even if it won't quite go all the way through, you can make it work with 2 passes. Then, drill around the perimeter of the circle with the small bit making the holes 1/2" apart. Go back around with the big bit and enlarge the perimeter holes. Take a chisel and 4lb. shop hammer and connect the dots. Remember, you are going to slick down the outside with mortar or something stronger so even if the hole is ugly, you can fix it. That's such a nice room that it would be a shame not to have it as "perfect" as possible. Luck - Dwain