Sizing heating elements - propane to electric conversion

[jcaudill]

Hello - I'm going through a process now of trying to figure out how to convert my was propane rig to electric. After moving to Colorado my outdoor brewing ability it severely hampered by mother nature so electric would allow me to go indoors without need for ventilation or make-up air.

That said - my current setup is two 45-gallon kettles (mash/boil) and a 30 gallon HLT. I also have an external HLT that is already electric - 50-gallon capacity and uses a 5500 watt element on a totally isolated circuit.

If I go through with this - I'm thinking I'd probably use RIMS to heat the mash. HERMS is an interesting proposition too I'm not against but RIMS seems like it's going to be a better solution and I've noticed most setups this size use RIMS.

Batch size wise - typically I'm not boiling over 25 gallons and that is rare. I just happen to have larger kettles because I like the bottom drains.

Is there any practical guidance on sizing the elements? I know the math approach and factor of time. But I'm curious if anyone has a similar kind of setup and what elements seem to balance being effective vs power consumption. Also the RIMS tube I'm seeing conflicting info. I see some setup using 3000, others using 1500 and recommendations of 5500. I know there's a balance here as well that I don't quite know how to strike.

Thanks.

 

[mongoose33]

Maybe you can scale this up. I can do a 10-gallon batch where I might have....13 gallons of wort boiling. About half of what you're doing.

I use a 5500-watt element for that, so for yours, double that would be about right. That's pretty much in line with the 12,000 watts you note above.

5500 watts is an excellent choice for 5-gallon batches where I'm pre-boiling about 8.25 gallons of strike water. I get about a 4-degree rise per minute with that.

BTW, when I switched to electric I went through the RIMS vs HERMS thing. Someone on HBT likened a RIMS to a sports car, whereas a HERMS approach was more like a family station wagon. The RIMS is going to be more responsive. I wouldn't change from my RIMS to a HERMS. About the only issue with a RIMS is that you have to ensure the pump is on and the RIMS tube is full of wort before firing the element, or you will scorch the wort. But other than that--man, I love being able to do step mashes and being able to dial in mash temps to within a degree.

 

[jcaudill]

Maybe you can scale this up. I can do a 10-gallon batch where I might have....13 gallons of wort boiling. About half of what you're doing.

I use a 5500-watt element for that, so for yours, double that would be about right. That's pretty much in line with the 12,000 watts you note above.

5500 watts is an excellent choice for 5-gallon batches where I'm pre-boiling about 8.25 gallons of strike water. I get about a 4-degree rise per minute with that.

BTW, when I switched to electric I went through the RIMS vs HERMS thing. Someone on HBT likened a RIMS to a sports car, whereas a HERMS approach was more like a family station wagon. The RIMS is going to be more responsive. I wouldn't change from my RIMS to a HERMS. About the only issue with a RIMS is that you have to ensure the pump is on and the RIMS tube is full of wort before firing the element, or you will scorch the wort. But other than that--man, I love being able to do step mashes and being able to dial in mash temps to a degree.

Thank you! This is good information! What size element are you using in your RIMS tube out of curiousity?

 

[mongoose33]

Thank you! This is good information! What size element are you using in your RIMS tube out of curiousity?

I believe it is 1650 watts. Some of those using RIMS with larger systems use a longer element and a longer RIMS tube, trying to reduce the watt density of the element as much as possible.

 

[jcaudill]

I believe it is 1650 watts. Some of those using RIMS with larger systems use a longer element and a longer RIMS tube, trying to reduce the watt density of the element as much as possible.

Ya that is not a bad idea I will definitely look into that. I know I talked to one vendor who suggested a 3000w element wasn't enough for step mashing but I think that may have applied more to true 1BBL batches which I'll never do. Too much freaking beer! Most of the time I do 12 gallon batch sizes so I'm really not boiling more than 15 but I'm going to be using a condensor as well so even that'll change a bit.

 

[mongoose33]

BTW: you're still going to need some sort of ventilation or a steam catcher even if you're indoors. Think of how much steam you'll be dumping inside by boiling such a batch, especially in Colorado. Imagine the condensation on your windows!

I use a steam condensation system (I brew in my garage here in Wisconsin), and it captures almost all of it. Down the drain goes the condensed steam. Some drain to a bucket, but I wanted a nice no-attention-needed way to get rid of that water.

This thread started it all: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/...denser-no-overhead-ventilation-needed.636955/ @BrunDog developed this method, and BobbyM at brewhardware.com developed a "Steam Slayer" that many of us use to do this.

Here's a pic of mine in action; the two elbows I use to elevate the slayer above the level of boiling water, most don't do that. Water comes in from a line on the right (9 gallons per hour), the steam comes off the kettle into the slayer where the spray of cold water condenses it. In condensing the steam a partial vacuum is formed, so that it continues to draw off the steam.

It works.

 

[mongoose33]

Ya that is not a bad idea I will definitely look into that. I know I talked to one vendor who suggested a 3000w element wasn't enough for step mashing but I think that may have applied more to true 1BBL batches which I'll never do. Too much freaking beer! Most of the time I do 12 gallon batch sizes so I'm really not boiling more than 15 but I'm going to be using a condensor as well so even that'll change a bit.

Well, there you go--one step ahead of me.

 

[jcaudill]

Well, there you go--one step ahead of me.

Haha - ironically this is the one part I was most worried about that had a pretty simple solution! The rest of it is the pain I wasn't planning on! Having to abandon all my current controls and needing changes to my kettles and plumbing. Ugh that whole cry once thing lol!