Efficiently Issues

[KortzBrewhouse]

Ok guys I just got back into brewing this month after taking a year or so off for I’m guessing the same reason. I’ve upgraded my system to an all electric 240 brew in a basket system and still have issues. The first batch I hit great about 78% efficiency but since then it’s been all down hill and I cannot figure out why. I though it was my water but I’ve bought water and checked ph. So could it be my grains? I buy from a known local hbs and they said their mill is set to .034” by default for BIAB but I’m sure they do a lot of quantity, and each time I have asked them to double crush. Should I get my own mill? Or is it something else?

Blonde 78%
Stout 60%
Bock 55%
Helles 65%

Same system roughly the same routine. Strike water around 163 for 8 lbs grains in for an hour no sparge then boil and chill thru a plate chiller. I can easily stay at temps w an electric 240 system no problem. Thanks again.

 

[dmtaylor]

8 lbs grain..... how many gallons is your batch size? How many gallons pre-boil and post-boil?

 

[KortzBrewhouse]

8 lbs grain..... how many gallons is your batch size? How many gallons pre-boil and post-boil?

5 gallon batches. About 7 pre boil and 6 post boil. 5.5 into the fermenter.

 

[dmtaylor]

8 lbs grains is not enough for any 5-gallon batch. Use more like 11-13 lbs.

 

[KortzBrewhouse]

8 lbs grains is not enough for any 5-gallon batch. Use more like 11-13 lbs.

That’s what the recipe/kit from the hbs comes with. The stout had more than 8 lbs but all the others were 8 lbs.

 

[dmtaylor]

That’s what the recipe/kit from the hbs comes with.

Then that is the problem. Simply not enough malt provided by the hbs to hit the intended OG. Maybe if you got 100% efficiency you'd hit your target, but no one can do that.

And at 6 gallons post-boil, you are also diluting your sugars further. Aim for 5.25-5.5 gallons post-boil for an intended 5-gallon batch.

 

[hilts]

Lhbs recipe kits are fine, but as you develop technique, you will likely decide to write your own recipes.

That aside, the issue I see with your efficiency is inconsistency. Are you keeping your process consistant? What is your sparge process?

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

When you order a kit simply also order about 4 extra lbs. of any low Lovibond base malt and instruct the LHBS to crush it for you. Add this right along with the kit ingredients, and add additional water to offset the extra grain absorption.

I'll never understand why so many of such kits presume that the (primarily) amateurs who will be buying them are at near expert level (or perhaps even at near pro level) with regard to efficiency, when the opposite is far more likely to be the case.

 

[KortzBrewhouse]

Lhbs recipe kits are fine, but as you develop technique, you will likely decide to write your own recipes.

That aside, the issue I see with your efficiency is inconsistency. Are you keeping your process consistant? What is your sparge process?

No sparge but on the next brew I will.

 

[dmtaylor]

No sparge but on the next brew I will.

Oh, well.......... the best your efficiency can be without sparge is about 65% unless you brew in a bag and squeeze like mad. And 55% would be more common than 65%.

 

[ratinator]

I would invest in buying a tool like beersmith and punching the recipe into it using your setup. You could still use the base recipe, but could add grains to hit intended OG. And as stated about I would do a batch sparge to rinse the remaining sugars outta the grains

 

[Christophrawr]

I had huge efficiency problems like this when I started too (BIAB) but I learned it was my water volumes that were off. Now with no effort or squeezing I'm at a constant 74%

As mentioned it could be inconsistencies in your process that you don't realize are affecting your numbers. Are you keeping a record of your water volumes and boil off rate? With efficiency swings like this I'm sure it's a problem with volume/boil off.

I strongly recommend you start using Beersmith (or something) to create and update your equipment profile. If you still want to buy beer kits you can build the recipe in the software and it'll tell you what your system will achieve allowing you to adjust it accordingly.

 

[KortzBrewhouse]

I would invest in buying a tool like beersmith and punching the recipe into it using your setup. You could still use the base recipe, but could add grains to hit intended OG. And as stated about I would do a batch sparge to rinse the remaining sugars outta the grains

I do use BeerSmith but it’s a new system that’s not in the profiles so I’m trying to fine tune it.

 

[Christophrawr]

I do use BeerSmith but it’s a new system that’s not in the profiles so I’m trying to fine tune it.

That's perfect though - you are 100% on the right path. I deleted all the included profiles and create them from scratch. It's simple and you can watch video tutorials on setting up new profiles.

Put a couple gallons of water in your kettle, boil for an hour (or 15 mins) then do the math for your boil off. Then each brewday record your volumes at each step (post mash, post boil in kettle, total in to fermenter, total in to bottling bucket) Once those are locked in it's just a matter of figuring out your efficiency and setting it for that profile then BOOM you are golden and will always hit your OG or within a point.

Two tips;
-Change your loss to trub to 0 in your profile, as long as your other volumes are always accurate. This helped me in my quest for efficiency.
-Remember that the amount of water it tells you to start with has the 4% heat expansion included... I did not realize that and that is why I was never hitting my OG lol now I reduce the given number by 4% and I hit my numbers.

 

[Christophrawr]

(and PS I also chased this rabbit and did everything like buy a mill and crush finer and squeeze that bag like a beast.. nothing got better until I locked in my volumes [emoji854] save your money for now)

 

[KortzBrewhouse]

(and PS I also chased this rabbit and did everything like buy a mill and crush finer and squeeze that bag like a beast.. nothing got better until I locked in my volumes [emoji854] save your money for now)

Thanks for the awesome advice!

 

[KortzBrewhouse]

Follow up: I brewed yesterday and made lots of changes. I tried another HBS and seemed my grains were crushed finer, I had them mill it twice. I got another 1.5lb of grains, I mashed lower (148) for longer (90), pour over sparged, squeezed the bag a boat load and added some campden tablets to my water. I came out w 91% mash efficiency and 70% brewhouse efficiency. Over shot a bit and still need to adjust my volume but I’m happy. Thanks everyone!

 

[Christophrawr]

Follow up: I brewed yesterday and made lots of changes. I tried another HBS and seemed my grains were crushed finer, I had them mill it twice. I got another 1.5lb of grains, I mashed lower (148) for longer (90), sparged, squeezed the bag a boat load and added some campden tablets to my water. I came out w 91% mash efficiency and 70% brewhouse efficiency. Over shot a bit and still need to adjust my volume but I’m happy. Thanks everyone!

Good to hear! The extra 1.5 lb surely made the biggest impact. What's nice about using brewing software is once you lock in an accurate equipment profile and figure out its efficiency (so start around 70% for you) the software will calculate the extra amount of grain you'll need to hit whatever OG you're aiming for. What you need now is consistency in your practice and you'll be consistently happy with your results [emoji3] congrats on the a successful return!

 

[kingmatt]

I don't get great efficiency (65%) but I don't care because I am consistent and grain is cheap. I am sure if I tinkered with my mill or process I could eek out some additional efficiency points but my beer turns out great so why fix what ain't broke??

Your main problem is your efficiency isn't predictable so you are forced to constantly adjust your recipe on the fly or have your beer not turn out as expected. I would guess the crush from your lhbs is the culprit...invest in a good mill and start buying your base grain in bulk if you can. The mill will end up paying for itself and you will have a better handle on your efficiency.

 

[KortzBrewhouse]

I don't get great efficiency (65%) but I don't care because I am consistent and grain is cheap. I am sure if I tinkered with my mill or process I could eek out some additional efficiency points but my beer turns out great so why fix what ain't broke??

Your main problem is your efficiency isn't predictable so you are forced to constantly adjust your recipe on the fly or have your beer not turn out as expected. I would guess the crush from your lhbs is the culprit...invest in a good mill and start buying your base grain in bulk if you can. The mill will end up paying for itself and you will have a better handle on your efficiency.

Yes for sure a mill is on my list and the fact I’ll be able to save money by buying in bulk is a huge plus for me. Thanks.

 

[RM-MN]

Yes for sure a mill is on my list and the fact I’ll be able to save money by buying in bulk is a huge plus for me. Thanks.

While this kind of mill isn't the fastest or sexiest mill on the market it will make good beer. I have one just like it and use it for BIAB brewing but others use this kind for conventional mash tuns too. The big advantage of a mill like this is you can get it for little more than pocket change and it will last a long time being made from cast iron.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Ktaxon-G...t-Mill-Crank-Cast-Home-Kitchen-Tool/168845401