Efficiency Help

[celtic_man81]

Hello, I've done my 2nd all-grain brew and I was wondering if there is any way I can maximize my brewhouse efficiency.

Here's the deal, because I can't afford (nor do I have the space) proper brewing equipment, for a regular 5 gal mash I split it up into 3 smallar batches. Now, I've gone under the assumption that for each batch I need to do a 60 min mash-in. As a result my efficiency suffers greatly, other variables aside. The last brew I did took 16 hours to do.

My question is can I decrease the mash-in time with the very little grain that I am using? My assumption would be "no" due to how starch conversion works, but I am no expert on the subject.

 

[Maxion]

Hello, I've done my 2nd all-grain brew and I was wondering if there is any way I can maximize my brewhouse efficiency.

Here's the deal, because I can't afford (nor do I have the space) proper brewing equipment, for a regular 5 gal mash I split it up into 3 smallar batches.

I'm going to brew my first AG soon and I too have the space problem. I live in a small apartment so I can't fit too much stuff in here. This is why I'm going to use the BIAB method instead of using an MLT tun. Something that might work for you?

 

[celtic_man81]

Reading the wiki now, thanks for the advice Maxion. It looks like a decent option.

 

[RM-MN]

The time in the mash to get conversion to sugars is related to how the grain is crushed. It should be obvious that the thicker the grain the more time it takes to get wet to the center so you want the grain crushed as thin as you can. However, if you crush it too fine, with the conventional mash tun, you will get a stuck sparge as the tiny particles want to clog up the filter when you try to drain out the wort. With brew in a bag, you have the entire surface of the bag to filter through and you can help the drain along by squeezing the bag so your limitation on the crush (or grind, works great) is pretty much gone so you can crush very thin or grind the grain. This makes it easy to get all the grain wet and your conversion will happen quicker and more efficiently. Check your liquid after only 15 minutes and see if it converted. Sometimes that is all the time it really needs although I usually wait for the full hour to be sure.

 

[celtic_man81]

RM-MN: What I usually do is a regular mash-in, then when it comes to do the recycling of the wort and sparging, I get a collender...lay some cheese-cloth on it, then strain the grains/sparge on that. Usually I do no more that 4 lbs at a time.

|It should be obvious that the thicker the grain the more time it takes to get wet to the center so you want the grain crushed as thin as you can.

So what you are saying is that with less grain, it'll convert faster? Also, I have heard crushing too small will result in off flavours, but my brewing science book seems to match with what you are saying. The rule of thumb I have generally heard is "just to expose the interior of the grain" and the wiki had some helpful pics for that.

Thanks for the info.

 

[RM-MN]

So what you are saying is that with less grain, it'll convert faster?

No, what I meant was that if your crush is not set as fine so the grains are each thicker it takes longer for the water to soak all the way to the center. If you don't get a fine crush but you mash longer to allow time for the water (and the enzymes) to soak all the grain and then sparge longer, your efficiency should be good. If you had really good filters and ground your grain to the consistency of baking flour, the conversion would be really quick but you might trade that against the time it would take to filter is all. I've been grinding to the consistency of corn meal and it filters out quickly and I get good conversion pretty fast too but the trade off is that with a paint strainer bag some of the tiny particles of grain may get into my boiling kettle.

 

[celtic_man81]

RM-MN: Oh, ok. What I'll do next time is crush smaller than usual, but not enough for the particles to get through. I just did some more reading and I found a description on water:grist ratio. It seems that (as you were describing and how the BIAB technique seems to work) the more water to grain the quicker the conversion is due to there being more space for the grain. And as you were saying the more cracked the grain is the faster the conversion, due to smaller surface area of the grain.

When you crush your grain to corn meal how long does it take for you to achieve total starch conversion? Just wondering.

I have also heard of an iodine test you can do to test for complete conversion.

 

[Bobby_M]

16 hours to brew 5 gallons? You can mash in grain bags in anything that will hold liquid so that you don't have to do small batches back to back but rather concurrently.

So you scoop your mash into a colander and drain it but how do you sparge?

 

[celtic_man81]

Bobby_M: For sparging, I prepare the sparge water in a separate pot while waiting for the mash-in to be complete. After that I do the usual wort cycling, with the grains on a colender with cheesecloth or something similar on it. Then when I am ready, I use a modified fermenting bucket fitted with a spout at the end and dump the sparge water in there then slowly sparge away. Also, I've found tasting the odd grain for lack of sweetness seems to help determine if I have sparged enough.

I think my question has been answered though as to why my brewing is so inefficiant, aside for having to wait for the kettle to boil and making sure the pH of the water is correct and the thermometer taking so damn long to take a reading. However I've thought of some strategies to deal with those issues as well.

 

[Bobby_M]

Sparging grains while they sit generally dry in a colander is not really an efficient way to do it. Fly sparging generally requires that the grain bed remain completely fluid as the water column slowly passes from top to bottom. You'd be much better off taking the grain out of the colander and dumping it into the pot where you've prepared the sparge water, stirring it up, then dump it back into the colander. This is essentially a batch sparge.

If I were you, I'd just put all the grain in a large mesh bag and mash in your bucket all at once. Wrap it with a sleeping bag for insulation.

 

[celtic_man81]

Bobby_M: Thanks, that seems to make more sense -- that'll be another idea to try.