East Coast Yeast Belgian Abbaye

[smokinghole]

Well I was fortunate enough to jump onto the Princeton Homebrew site and grab some East Coast Yeast cultures over a week ago. I received ECY09 Belgian Abbaye in my order to play with. I decided to brew up my evolved version of Saq's Pious Old World recipe.

Has anyone else got their hands on this yeast? I think it's supposed to be an old brewtek strain that someone had in their fridge and hooked East Coast Yeast up with the culture. If that's the case what brewery do we think it's from? I don't know which Brewtek strain it's supposed to be though. There's CL-0300, CL-0320, and CL-0340.

 

[smokinghole]

Well I brewed both a dubbel and a dark strong and I don't think I could have made a better choice. High clove spice and deep dark fruit flavors. The dubbel is sitting comfortably at 7%abv and getting bottled very soon. The gravity sample is delicious. I can't wait to have this in bottles.

 

[TomRep]

Very interested in your results with this yeast. I'm finally to the point of plating, slanting, and freezing and was looking at grabbing some of the East Coast yeast strains.
Tom

 

[smokinghole]

Get this strain. I brewed a very basic dubbel recipe. Split base malt between Vienna and Pils. I used Legacy and Ultra hops I think. I don't know for sure anymore because the recipe disappeared with my failed hard drive. Anyhow I just bottled today and I'm drinking about 16oz of left over and it's goddamn nice. This yeast made all the flavor I just gave it a malt background with little hop bitterness.

I also used it in a quad. I won't be bottling that for quite a few more weeks.

 

[TomRep]

Sounds like you twisted my arm! Let me know how the quad fairs too if you don't mind. Thanks for the heads up!
tom

 

[smokinghole]

The quad will be bottled up soon. I'm drinking a dubbel right now (sure it's early but I wanted to try it sooo bad). It's flipping delicious. The body is about perfect for this beer I think. The carbonation isn't 100% there yet but its only been two weeks. I cannot wait to get the quad bottled and get to taste that monster. It should be about 11%. This yeast is a definite homerun! Both are simple recipes so the impressive and delicious flavors are predominately coming from the yeast, it wasn't my doing, it was the yeast.

 

[joshs]

I have this yeast ready to go and am thinking about doing a Belgian Pale Ale to start. This should grow a good dose of yeast to do something bigger like a dubbel, triple or quad.

Any opinions? Too spicy or "clovey" for a BPA?

-Josh

 

[smokinghole]

I don't think so. The very clovey flavor has faded a bit now.

 

[joshs]

I don't think so. The very clovey flavor has faded a bit now.

Cool, thanks for the info. Any thoughts on how it might be in a triple? That will probably be it's next step.

-Josh

 

[smokinghole]

No clue really. I have ECY13 planned for a tripel but do plan on
getting another dubbel going with ECY09 due to a slight contamination
issue I had with my last dubbel.

 

[joshs]

Ok, so I opened the bottle of yeast to make a starter yesterday and got a strong brett character. Smelling the starter today it seems more pronounced and slightly acidic? Is there anything else in this yeast like brett or lacto or something? Could be contaminated as well.

Josh

 

[smokinghole]

How old is it? Sometimes autolysis of yeast will cause the brett character even when brett is not present.

 

[joshs]

March 3 is the prep date on the bottle.

 

[smokinghole]

It's possible. I think I have a bottle from the same batch in my fridge. If you think you have a legitimate concern email/call/facebook ECY and ask. If you have the problem others may. I will check mine sometime today as well.

 

[joshs]

Let me know if you get that at all when you check your sample. I don't want to cry wolf yet. I am going to give the starter a day to finish out and then I will sample.

I will report back.

Josh

 

[adc123]

Hey, i got a vial around the same age. My starter tasted very tart. The beer (a dubbel!) also has quite the acidic edge. Not lambic sour, but a definite tartness. I swear this is lacto. ECY says the starter can smell sour, but that's all he said.

Are peoples' final bottled/kegged beer tart?

 

[mikeysab]

I have no experience with ECY, but one thing I can tell you is that starters/vials/smackers don't usually smell all that great. YMMV

 

[adc123]

Yeah, when the starter was off I didn't think much of it. But now that the final beer has a distinct tartness (with everything else about the beer being fine), I wonder if a) this is just how the yeast is, or b) there was some cross-contamination when ECY packaged the product. I wouldn't be that surprised either way

 

[smokinghole]

I had a dubbel get ropy/sourin the bottle but I very well could have contaminated it myself. I have a few fermentors going with bacterial cultures going too.

 

[adc123]

Well i just kegged this dubbel up, and my friends agree there is something sour there. I am tempted to just throw the beer into the closet for a few months; i figure it will get ropy eventually...

 

[smokinghole]

Well I bottled up my quad that I used this for fermentation and it's not sour and has a normal viscosity. This is from the same vial that got my dubbel to go ropy. So either the 11% abv stopped the bacteria or my dubbel was an isolated incident. Plus it tastes awesome, pure awesome.

 

[joshs]

Starter stayed tart so I decided to do a quick extract brew with it. 3 lbs of pils dme and 1 lbs wheat dme. Little amber candy sugar, noble hops and I'm done.

I figured that wasn't too much of a time or money commitment. Might turn out more like a Saison.

Josh

 

[smokinghole]

So how'd your sour starter turn out? I made another dubbel in August with my newest vial of ECY09 and there is a definite sourness to the beer. I added 1lb of acidulated malt but that wouldn't have added this much sourness to the beer. That would have only roughly been a .05 drop in pH for the beer which isn't enough to make it taste as sour as it does. The other thing that tips me off is each bottle has a small pellicle in each one. I did everything I could to keep from causing a cross contamination in this batch. If I had an autoclave I could run a quickie LAB test on the slurry I have sitting in my fridge.

 

[adc123]

Yeah, my dubbel turned pretty sour. Its still nice though, but I don't have space on tap for it. Almost all the 5 gallons is in my brewing closet. I think i will propagate up the keg dregs to make a nice berliner weisse.

 

[smokinghole]

You're probably correct that its lacto. Now my beer was built to be about 35ibus I'm sure I'm a tad off, but it's not ropy. My first attempt I contaminated it with pedio but this is certainly not from me. I fermented the beer and didn't open the fermentor until the day I bottled. This was in a 10gal corny mind you, so the contamination would have had to make it through the air lock with positive pressure from fermentation to make it even more difficult. I do not detect any ropiness but I do believe there is bacteria in here. Did your's ever get ropy? I like mine too and it will be a real nice beer in about 6-12 months when some of the IBUs die down.

 

[adc123]

I put some under a microscope about two months ago. Full of lacto. Have not seen any ropiness yet. My only IBUs were 1 oz saaz 5.0 AA for 60 minutes. I think its a good, maybe even very good, on its own, but it could be a blend component down the road too.

 

[smokinghole]

Well I came into work today and was surprised with ordering an autoclave. So i will make up some wld plates this week or next week and check mine.

 

[smokinghole]

This beer is carbed up and drinking awesome. I hope I can age some for six months or so because it's awesome. I'm almost happier I ended up with this as a sour version rather than the clean version I was seeking. Anyhow I am going to isolate the lacto out of my culture so I can use it in other beers. It's obviously fairly hop tolerant considering I hit this beer with what should be about 35ibus. I envision this being a nice lacto strain to have separate.

 

[ryanhope]

Any word on the strain source for this yeast? I just got a fresh vial in the mail.

 

[smokinghole]

No idea on source other than CL320/300 I forget which one it is. Anyhow it's delicious in dark beers. Haven't tried it in anything light in color yet.

 

[ryanhope]

Great, cant wait to brew some dubbel and and quad!

 

[uright]

Took a taste sample of the decanted beer from my starter. It is incredibly tart. I messaged Al on facebook. Probably wont be pitching this into my dubbel this weekend.

 

[ryanhope]

Took a taste sample of the decanted beer from my starter. It is incredibly tart. I messaged Al on facebook. Probably wont be pitching this into my dubbel this weekend.

I've never tasted a starter, I should get a starter going soon cause I am doing Ommegang Abbey Ale and Westy 12 clones using this yeast.

 

[loctones]

Reviving this old thread. I got some ECY09 in the mail last week. I'm thinking a dubbel-like grain bill that'll be about 5% ABV and a dark strong or quad. I'm a fan of dubbels, so I'm excited to try it out.

Anyone have any further experience with this yeast that they care to share? Thoughts on using it in a blonde or tripel?

 

[Fermented_minds]

Reviving this old thread. I got some ECY09 in the mail last week. I'm thinking a dubbel-like grain bill that'll be about 5% ABV and a dark strong or quad. I'm a fan of dubbels, so I'm excited to try it out.

Anyone have any further experience with this yeast that they care to share? Thoughts on using it in a blonde or tripel?

I think this yeast would be good for any darker Belgian beer, like a dubbel or a quad.

However, taste your starter first. Looking back at this thread, there are a of of reports of lacto in it, and if the cell stock was not cleaned up, might happen again. Just from my personal experience, I have plated out a number of pure culture ECY Bretts straight from the vial, and they all had bacteria in them. Microscopy showed spherical bacteria (small red colonies on the plate) in the Custersianus I plated out. I was actually unable to pull out a yeast that even resembled brettanomyces from the ~8-10 colonies I examined, and I gave up and decided to just junk it. Al, to his credit, sent a replacement plate, but that was in rough shape so I abandoned it all together. While I haven't looked at the colonies from the Naardenensis plates yet from a ~6 month old vial, there was a lot of bacteria in that as well, just judging from the colony morphology (colonies that are roundish, flat, small, high-gloss and with a transparent appearance). That might have something more to do with the age of the pitch?

Good luck with the brew. Dubbel is hands down my favorite styles.

 

[loctones]

Thanks for the feedback.

I did read the older information in this thread about contaminated yeast samples. I definitely hope I don't have that problem. I brewed what is on track to be my best dubbel a few months ago, and I want another awesome one to add to the stash.

Your experience is very interesting. I brewed what I wanted to be a 100% Brett Saison with ECY (I forget the type) at the beginning of last year. The beer ended up having trouble with fermentation and getting ropy after a few months, which I believe is the result of pedio. I always thought I screwed up the starter, somehow. I definitely may have, but perhaps there was unintended bacteria in the sample as well. Unfortunately, I don't have the lab equipment or skills to check.

 

[Fermented_minds]

Thanks for the feedback.

I did read the older information in this thread about contaminated yeast samples. I definitely hope I don't have that problem. I brewed what is on track to be my best dubbel a few months ago, and I want another awesome one to add to the stash.

Your experience is very interesting. I brewed what I wanted to be a 100% Brett Saison with ECY (I forget the type) at the beginning of last year. The beer ended up having trouble with fermentation and getting ropy after a few months, which I believe is the result of pedio. I always thought I screwed up the starter, somehow. I definitely may have, but perhaps there was unintended bacteria in the sample as well. Unfortunately, I don't have the lab equipment or skills to check.

Ya, it was a little disappointing, especially since a vial is $27 including the shipping costs out to the west coast! Probably just a cell stock issue. Those can always be rectified by simply reisolating. The contaminant in the custersianus was not likely pedio, as the media used likely wouldn't support it and the plates were in an aerobic environment.

 

[smokinghole]

If your dubbel does sour maybe it'll be good just as mine was that soured. Whatever bacteria is in his cell stock for ECY09 it is hop and alcohol tolerant and doesn't get ropy. So yay for that, I isolated it and started using it in my saison pitches too.

I had plated this stuff out on some WLD when I was doing brewery QA a couple years ago. It certainly grew bacteria straight out of the vial. So I emailed Al to say that I found that and he said "oh sounds like lacto" and that was all he responded with really. Thank god it wasn't a pitch that the brewery got for a commercial batch of beer. That could have become an issue to get rid of being hop and alcohol tolerant. Valve seats can be very tricky to CIP areas especially when they're not easily removed from hard piping.

 

[LesIsMore]

I bottled a Golden Strong Ale that I used ECY13 Belgian Abbaye II on earlier this week. I'm not sure how the yeast will work with a GSA, but I guess I'll find out soon enough. I think next I might try a Dark Strong Ale with this yeast.

 

[loctones]

I bottled up my dubbel this week, and there were no hints of sour, which I was happy about. I have enough sour beers going, and want to have a few non-sour Belgian-style beers going.

Tonight I'm going to brew a quad--base pale and pils malt, 1 lb. turbinado, 2 lb. of D180, and a slight amount of caramunich and special B.