These are going over to Windham, ME, I haven't gone there for 20 years. I have some regular customers who wanted to try them out so I'm going with it. Hard to get a booking with them unless you get it months ahead. I used to do my own but now I don't want to deal with it. I certainly could if I had to but I don't have cold hanging unless Ma Nature cooperates. I really dislike wrapping too, really messes up brew time.