Duotight fittings disintegrated

[dmnota]

Ah, yeah I gotcha. Don't get me wrong, I had some separate failures from over-tightening. That was a quick remedy though .

But those pictures were specifically for someone who asked to see the brown/"burned" marks. I had a few others which have since been thrown out, but they always appeared in that "half moon" shape. I (wrongly) assumed that was a result of dried liquid pooling from gravity. Guess not.

I appreciate this thread though; isolating the variables is giving me confidence to try them again. Better informed this time.

 

[balrog]

The three of mine only failed with the interior flanges holding the metal teeth, which broke off. None discolored. None have ever been soaked long term in StarSan, just dunked, shaken, then used. Guess it means StarSan dried on them though.

 

[IslandLizard]

The three of mine only failed with the interior flanges holding the metal teeth, which broke off.

"Only" failed? That's utter and complete failure!
That kind of unexpected failure can cause significant damage, aside from being a nuisance, loss of beer, gas, etc.

Were those the gray Acetal?

I just saw they sell "half cartridges," but all are Acetal, in different colors, white, gray, and black:
https://www.freshwatersystems.com/products/john-guest-plastic-half-cartridge-1-4

 

[balrog]

"Only" failed? That's utter and complete failure!
That kind of unexpected failure can cause significant damage, aside from being a nuisance, loss of beer, gas, etc.

Were those the gray Acetal?

I just saw they sell "half cartridges," but all are Acetal, in different colors, white, gray, and black:
https://www.freshwatersystems.com/products/john-guest-plastic-half-cartridge-1-4

Well, I be an idiot. Mine were John Guest. It does however appear to me that the failure was on a gray plastic part however...

Apologies for adding to a Duotight thread with John Guest issues.

 

[McMullan]

I've had a JG collet disintegrate like that. One out of dozens, mind. I thought it was due to being left overnight in Iodophor solution.

 

[balrog]

I thought it was due to being left overnight in Iodophor solution.

I thought my three failing the same way was due to repeated switching; I thought there was a mean time between failure about which I was unaware.

 

[Deadalus]

Well, I be an idiot. Mine were John Guest. It does however appear to me that the failure was on a gray plastic part however...
View attachment 781455
View attachment 781456

Apologies for adding to a Duotight thread with John Guest issues.

Sorry I kind of roped you in earlier...the John Guest are made of gray acetal copolymer which the Duotights were made of previously but the Duotight collars are now made of polyketone (POK) per their pdf.

 

[McMullan]

I thought my three failing the same way was due to repeated switching; I thought there was a mean time between failure about which I was unaware.

Yes, I don't think push fittings are supposed to be disconnected repeatedly. The collets look like potential weak points regardless.

 

[superiorsat]

Out of curiosity could a person just use normal barb type fittings/valves/regulators with EVA tubing? Shark Bite push to connect plumbing fittings are a none professionals way of doing plumbing IMO and I've always looked at these fittings with the same negativity.

 

[IslandLizard]

Shark Bite push to connect plumbing fittings are a none professionals way of doing plumbing IMO and I've always looked at these fittings with the same negativity.

Wow, I too have always felt that way about Sharkbite type "push to connect" fittings, especially on copper connections. I can see it work on plastic tubing, especially when they're exposed and can be inspected periodically.

I was mystified when a professional plumber in his shop even suggested using those when I was replacing my 1" copper water line, 7 feet underground, from the street shut-off to the water meter inside my basement. I would never use those fittings, especially underground, even at 2 feet. One of those giving out at some point in time could cause a major catastrophe.

Instead, I scored 2 heavy duty brass compression elbows the water department uses (I had a connection there ).

 

[tracer bullet]

https://www.kegland.com.au/media/pdf/duotight design revision.pdf
Came up in another thread. Newer fittings should theoretically be fine now w/ Star San.

 

[IslandLizard]

https://www.kegland.com.au/media/pdf/duotight design revision.pdf
Came up in another thread. Newer fittings should theoretically be fine now w/ Star San.

Thank you for the link to the update, that's a worthwhile read!

StellarSan (!) apparently, was indeed the culprit...

Revision:
This "update" by Kegland is from 28/09/2020, not 2022!
So that's over 2 years ago. And all that time they knew Starsan and such were the culprit.

 

[dmnota]

If the "fixed" version of these is identified by the raised branding on the end... then I wouldn't put much stock in this document. I'm keeping my Duotights as far away from StarSan as possible. All of mine have this and have failed when exposed to Star San.
This is a picture of my newest failure: the collar busted and the nut snapped in half. The nut breaking struck me since it's not the usual way caused by "over-tightening."

Kegland's language of "through all testing showed no signs of damage even with very strong acid" and "very few failures have been recorded" feel very insincere to me.

 

[Deadalus]

https://www.kegland.com.au/media/pdf/duotight design revision.pdf
Came up in another thread. Newer fittings should theoretically be fine now w/ Star San.

No biggie but I posted that pdf earlier in this thread...more noteworthy is that I also posted about a failure with what is described as the newer fittings. At most I can only say with certainty that I sprayed the fitting with Star San. I may have let them sit for a short period in Star San as well but probably not a long soak. If I have a batch of small hardware I usually will have a gallon mixed up in bowl or pot in the sink. I only have the one sink though so I generally just drop them in a colander to move them out of the sink to dry so as to be able to use the sink.

 

[tracer bullet]

No biggie but I posted that pdf earlier in this thread...

Oops! Bad memory, sorry. Maybe I better go kill a few of the weak brain cells

 

[Ayzala]

If the "fixed" version of these is identified by the raised branding on the end... then I wouldn't put much stock in this document. I'm keeping my Duotights as far away from StarSan as possible. All of mine have this and have failed when exposed to Star San.
This is a picture of my newest failure: the collar busted and the nut snapped in half. The nut breaking struck me since it's not the usual way caused by "over-tightening."

Kegland's language of "through all testing showed no signs of damage even with very strong acid" and "very few failures have been recorded" feel very insincere to me.

Agreed! All the Duotights that failed on me were purchased after the "Upgrade". So I'm not convinced the new ones will hold up to Starsan! I'm staying away and using iodophor.

 

[Deadalus]

Agreed! All the Duotights that failed on me were purchased after the "Upgrade". So I'm not convinced the new ones will hold up to Starsan! I'm staying away and using iodophor.

Has the iodophor stained them?

 

[Ayzala]

Has the iodophor stained them?

A little, but if you leave them in for the recommended time it takes a while to discolor.

 

[McMullan]

I just ordered some Duotight fittings for a cask/Caskwidge/cask breather/spunding experiment. John Guest only offer one of the two fittings I need, but I'm sure I could adapt other JG fittings, if it works and the Duotight fittings fail. I really like what Kegland offer home brewers, but they need to sort their 'really awesome' crap out occasionally. Releasing poorly tested prototypes to market is what I expect from small startups, not established businesses.

 

[McMullan]

A little, but if you leave them in for the recommended time it takes a while to discolor.

A no-rinse 12.5ppm iodophor solution is fine on plastics. I try to keep contact time <10min. The white plastic bucket stains a little, but it only seems to be temporary.

 

[lulubrewer]

Had the same problem happen to me. I bought eva barrier and duotight fittings in January following all the praises. I installed them between my regulator and gas QD. I sanitized them with starsan. I may have assembled them wet from starsan as I typically do. I put the little lock rings on both connectors. After that I did a leak check with starsan and let the assembly sit in my basement for 1 month. I didn't even used this setup, it as not even in my kegerator but after one month the lips of the flange have broken on both connectors due to the light pressure of the locking ring. They also show the same brown mark as all the previous pictures.
I'm glad I wasn't using this setup at the which prevented the waste of a co2 tank.

 

[Summa_Brewologica]

Had the same problem happen to me. I bought eva barrier and duotight fittings in January following all the praises. I installed them between my regulator and gas QD. I sanitized them with starsan. I may have assembled them wet from starsan as I typically do. I put the little lock rings on both connectors. After that I did a leak check with starsan and let the assembly sit in my basement for 1 month. I didn't even used this setup, it as not even in my kegerator but after one month the lips of the flange have broken on both connectors due to the light pressure of the locking ring. They also show the same brown mark as all the previous pictures.
I'm glad I wasn't using this setup at the which prevented the waste of a co2 tank.

I’m 95% sure it’s due to starsan. Idk what your ratio was but I attributed my issues to a heavier ratio. I got new fittings, sprayed them with a very light mixture just initially and haven’t had an issue. I didn’t do a leak test on the gas. I just shut my house down as quiet as possible and put my ear to the tank to try and hear a trickle.

No issues so far and it’s been almost 6 months.

I think these fittings are great and I love them but I do advise people to go very light on the Star San.

 

[lulubrewer]

I’m 95% sure it’s due to starsan.

I agree.
And yes, I too probably had a concentration that was higher than normal since it was in my spray bottle. I would be concerned about the long term though: a normal starsan concentration must be deteriorating the plastic over time considering what a high concentration did in only 4 weeks.

I guess Duotights just don't work with my process since I like doing leak tests with starsan (at least on the gas side) and wet assembly (at least on the beer side).

 

[DuncB]

I guess Duotights just don't work with my process since I like doing leak tests with starsan (at least on the gas side) and wet assembly (at least on the beer side).

Can just put washing up liquid and water in a spray bottle for this purpose.

 

[boilermaker]

Throwing in my experience here. Very interesting to see how everyone uses these fittings, especially cleaning/sanitizing. Starsan is a surface sanitizer so I use it that way. To me, soaking is for cleaning. I’ve been using Duotight exclusively in my kegerator for the last 18 months, gas and liquid sides. No issues at all. BUT - I’ve never soaked or sprayed my fittings with Starsan and don’t bother leak checking them with Starsan either. I use the blue collar clips as well. When a keg kicks, I clean the line with either BLC or PBW (per Five Star’s guidance on line cleaning) and then run Starsan through them to rinse the cleaner out (rinse, not soak), then tap a new keg, final flush line with beer and I’m done. If I don’t have a keg ready for that tap, I flush cleaner with water. I don’t leave Starsan sitting in the line for an extended time. I keep everything connected for this (QD+fittings+line) and don’t disassemble anything. Maybe cleaning my lines after every keg helps.

Silicon tubing gets the same treatment. Rinse or short soak in Starsan only. If I need to leave a tube in Starsan for an extended time (like for a fermenter blowoff tube into a pint of Starsan) I add a piece of vinyl tubing for the bit that goes into Starsan. As others have mentioned, the vinyl does turn white after a while but then cleans up ok.

These processes work for me at least.

 

[RenaudP]

Just had the same exact issue only two months in the life of my 8 kegs kegerator.
All the fittings and regulator became brittle and failed.

They were never soaked in Starsan, but were sprayed with it to leak test them.

I'll probably be switching to secondary regulators and barb fittings for now on. My trust in the product has been quite affected.

 

[Summa_Brewologica]

Just had the same exact issue only two months in the life of my 8 kegs kegerator.
All the fittings and regulator became brittle and failed.

They were never soaked in Starsan, but were sprayed with it to leak test them.

I'll probably be switching to secondary regulators and barb fittings for now on. My trust in the product has been quite affected.

View attachment 825367

I understand but I would encourage you to not let this discourage you. Ever since I figured out it was star san related I have had no issues. I have actually been on a beer break for a while and still have kegs hooked up to gas from last year with zero drop in pressure or any failures or even signs of failures. You could just use a light soapy mix to leak check but I also found that I can put my ear to the gas tank and hear if there is even a slightest leak so long as all other ambient sounds are low enough (unplug the kegerator temporarily).

I think they are great products and I ultimately determined my issue to be user error (too heavy a ratio of starsan to water). I should also mention that even though they deteriorated, they held pressure until I broke the system down to replace them and they disintegrated. Not to say that they wouldn't have failed, eventually, in that condition.

I get it though. It was scary until I figured out the issue. It looks like you have invested in a lot of those products already so my .02 would be to just not use star san for leak testing, replace those deteriorated fittings, and you should be fine. That is just my opinion though.

Whatever you decide, may it be prosperous for many brews to come and happy brewing!

EDIT: I should also add the regulators seemed to handle the starsan just fine. It was just those grey fittings that took a hit.

 

[Broken Crow]

Just had the same exact issue only two months in the life of my 8 kegs kegerator.
All the fittings and regulator became brittle and failed.

They were never soaked in Starsan, but were sprayed with it to leak test them.

I'll probably be switching to secondary regulators and barb fittings for now on. My trust in the product has been quite affected.

View attachment 825367

Whoah!!! I was gonna post back in your 5 pound CO2 tank thread and ask if you used EVAbarrier and if it had the little blue retainer clips, but it looks like you found your CO2 issue.. Personally, I'm only using CM Becker MFL disconnects, but planning to switch out my gas lines to the 1/4" EVAbarrier with good old-fasioned SS swivel nuts! In my own use of duotight, I'd read about the starsan issue, so starsan only touches the inside of mine and then, only right before it's about to rinsed out with beer.
EDIT: Sorry!... I can barely read this morning!

 

[Bobby_M]

They were never soaked in Starsan, but were sprayed with it to leak test them.

Was the spray mixed at the correct 1oz to 5 gallons of water or just eyeballed into the pray bottle? People tend to make it WAY stronger without realizing it. Then as the water evaporates on the surface, it goes back to full strength. Test gas leaks with soapy water, not acidic.

 

[Yesfan]

I've only had one issue with a Duotight connector (the fitting between the EVA line and CMBecker disconnect). It was because I went Starsan heavy on my spray bottle.

There's PTC fittings in stainless steel that someone posted a year back from Amazon. Fair warning, I've had an issue with a swivel nut getting discolored and turning black from having in a bottle of Starsan solution because it was on the end of a blow off line during fermentation. At least it didn't disintegrate.