Dry yeast questions

[Zoltan]

I am making an ale using dry yeast for the first time, Safale US-05. I have been using two packages of either White Labs or Wyeast liquid yeast in my high-gravity 1.078 ale. (1) Are two packages of the dry yeast equivalent to two packages of liquid yeast? (2) The Safale envelope says to sprinkle the yeast on the wort, whereas "How to Brew" describes a rather elaborate rehydration process. Is it necessary, or can I just sprinkle?

 

[dmtaylor]

Two packs are plenty for a strong ale.

While manufacturers will claim both ways that their cell counts are similar or different, there is in fact usually more strong viable yeast in a dry yeast pack than any liquid pack. Dry yeast has a shelf life of at least a decade, maybe more, very shelf stable relative to any liquid yeast with minimal loss in viability. Initial cell counts might be similar but in liquid yeast will fall dramatically just a few weeks after manufacturer, whereas with dry yeast it lasts for many years with minimal losses.

Sprinkle on top. No need to overcomplicate! It's one of the other huge advantages dry yeast has over liquid.

 

[keystonehb]

Generally Dry yeast has more cells than standard liquid yeasts. Wyeast is 100 Billing, Recently White Labs came out with their 'next generation' pitches that are about 150 billion. Dry yeasts can range depending on the strain but dry yeast is 115+ billion cells. If choosing between wyeast or dry 2 packs of dry will have a decent amount more for pretty much the same price depending on the strain.

Sprinkling Dry yeast is the best way to go re-hydrating incorrectly can lead to loss of cells.

 

[Yesfan]

Sprinkling is for winners...........

 

[Snuffy]

Sprinkling is for winners...........

View attachment 869707

Be a sweety,
Lift the seaty.

 

[Zoltan]

Two packs are plenty for a strong ale.

While manufacturers will claim both ways that their cell counts are similar or different, there is in fact usually more strong viable yeast in a dry yeast pack than any liquid pack. Dry yeast has a shelf life of at least a decade, maybe more, very shelf stable relative to any liquid yeast with minimal loss in viability. Initial cell counts might be similar but in liquid yeast will fall dramatically just a few weeks after manufacturer, whereas with dry yeast it lasts for many years with minimal losses.

Sprinkle on top. No need to overcomplicate! It's one of the other huge advantages dry yeast has over liquid.

Do I need to stir it in? If not, how does the malt at the bottom get fermented?

 

[dmtaylor]

Do I need to stir it in? If not, how does the malt at the bottom get fermented?

Once the yeast cells are rehydrated, they wake up and swim around, and are stirred up by convection heat and by CO2 bubbles. No need to stir, they basically stir themselves after a few hours.

 

[Zoltan]

I pitched the yeast by sprinkling and it seemed to ferment vigorously. Unlike my previous batches with liquid yeast, fermentation seems completely done after about a week. I see no evidence of CO2 continuing to be produced. Previously, with liquid yeast, vigorous fermentation died down after 4 days or so, but very slow CO2 production continued long after. I measured the gravity of this dry yeast batch a few days later and it's just about reached the final gravity specified in the recipe after only about 9 days. How much longer should I leave it in the fermenter before bottling? The recipe calls for three weeks, which is what I did with liquid yeast, but I'm wondering if two weeks will suffice.

 

[MaxStout]

I pitched the yeast by sprinkling and it seemed to ferment vigorously. Unlike my previous batches with liquid yeast, fermentation seems completely done after about a week. I see no evidence of CO2 continuing to be produced. Previously, with liquid yeast, vigorous fermentation died down after 4 days or so, but very slow CO2 production continued long after. I measured the gravity of this dry yeast batch a few days later and it's just about reached the final gravity specified in the recipe after only about 9 days. How much longer should I leave it in the fermenter before bottling? The recipe calls for three weeks, which is what I did with liquid yeast, but I'm wondering if two weeks will suffice.

Make sure the beer is more than "just about at final gravity." You don't want to get bottle bombs. If you take a couple gravity readings a couple days apart and they are the same, fermentation is done. Go ahead and package.

 

[keystonehb]

Do I need to stir it in?

I usually recommend not stirring after pitching dried yeast. You want to aerate by stirring/shaking/rocking before pitching, but more often then not if you stir in dried yeast you end up coating the side of the bucket with all your dried yeast. Yeast that does not end up in the beer doesn't help anyone

 

[VTMongoose]

https://fermentis.com/en/knowledge-center/qanda/

https://www.lallemandbrewing.com/en/united-states/resources/brewers-corner/re-hydration-and-quality/

These two companies know a thing or two about pitching yeast. Both of them say direct pitching into the wort is fine. I and thousands of other brewers have done so many times.

Personally I prefer a vitality starter or rehydration in warm water to decrease lag time.

 

[RM-MN]

I usually recommend not stirring after pitching dried yeast. You want to aerate by stirring/shaking/rocking before pitching, but more often then not if you stir in dried yeast you end up coating the side of the bucket with all your dried yeast. Yeast that does not end up in the beer doesn't help anyone

Dry yeast does not need aeration before pitching. In most cases it won't hurt to aerate but forgetting to isn't a problem.

 

[Zoltan]

I sprinkled the yeast carefully and evenly over the top, did not stir, and it seemed to work fine. I had aerated the wort before this. It took about 12 hours to really get going. As I reported above, primary fermentation was complete after about four days, and there appears to be zero CO2 being generated now, and final gravity per the recipe has been reached. (When I used liquid yeast in previous batches, very slow fermentation continued after the vigorous phase.) I will, however, leave it in the fermenter to condition another week or so. The beer is quite cloudy at this point.

If the beer turns out good, dry yeast will be my new method! Easier and cheaper than fooling with refrigeration and smack packs. (White Labs doubling their prices and then getting some Wyeast packages too swollen to smack soured me on the whole thing.) I really appreciate all the advice here--it's nervous-making the first time to think that all the effort and expense may go awry! Thank you all!

 

[RM-MN]

I sprinkled the yeast carefully and evenly over the top, did not stir, and it seemed to work fine. I had aerated the wort before this. It took about 12 hours to really get going.

It's a good thing that you sprinkled the yeast evenly over the top so you got a fast start. In the past I have put the dry yeast into the fermenter and poured the wort on top of it and I have stirred the yeast in and each time I did one of those methods I got a start in about 12 hours and always reached very near the expected final gravity. Yes, it doesn't really matter how you do the dry yeast. Rehydrating may give you a faster start but not by much. Not worth the effort according the results I get.

 

[Zoltan]

A few hours difference doesn't matter to me. The Fermentis website said something about adding the yeast to the undiluted wort before adding more water on top of that, but that seemed unnecessarily complicated.

 

[PCABrewing]

Fermentis gives that as an option but goes on to say that you can just sprinkle it on top too.

 

[AlexKay]

Dry yeast is wonderful. There’s at least one decent option out there for just about any beer. For example, if you want a good English ale yeast, you’re covered, but you may not get to be as picky about exactly which esters you’re going to get.

Except Kolsch. I’ve found nothing to do about Kolsch since Lallemand discontinued Koln. Nottingham cold or 34/70 warm is the best I can do, and while both give nice beers, it’s not the same.

 

[corncob]

Dry yeast really is wonderful these days, but I have to countersignal a little on the part about "good" English dry yeast. There are good options for English styles that don't rely heavily on yeast-derived flavors. Styles with big malt or sugar flavor (porter, mild, etc.) are no problem. Dry, crisp pale styles dominated by hop flavors are OK. But there's really not a great option for a basic pale bitter.

We live in a golden age of dry yeast otherwise though.

 

[VTMongoose]

Dry yeast really is wonderful these days, but I have to countersignal a little on the part about "good" English dry yeast. There are good options for English styles that don't rely heavily on yeast-derived flavors. Styles with big malt or sugar flavor (porter, mild, etc.) are no problem. Dry, crisp pale styles dominated by hop flavors are OK. But there's really not a great option for a basic pale bitter.

We live in a golden age of dry yeast otherwise though.

One thing I cannot comprehend is how we do not have a dry version of the Fuller's strain yet. Huge frustration for me.

 

[corncob]

One thing I cannot comprehend is how we do not have a dry version of the Fuller's strain yet. Huge frustration for me.

Huge. I assume there's a technical reason why those types (big chewy top coppers) can't be made as dry. Because it seems like a lot of people have been begging for one for years. Verdant is the closest, but it's just to weird, flavor-wise, to fill that role.

 

[Miraculix]

One thing I cannot comprehend is how we do not have a dry version of the Fuller's strain yet. Huge frustration for me.

Some yeasts take being freeze dried very easy and some don't.

 

[Closet Fermenter]

Except Kolsch. I’ve found nothing to do about Kolsch since Lallemand discontinued Koln. Nottingham cold or 34/70 warm is the best I can do, and while both give nice beers, it’s not the same.

Im hoping to do Kölsch soon myself. I am still comparing recipes and selecting a yeast. Can you share the specifics of what you mean by “cold” and “warm”. I’m concerned that I I guess wrong, it might spoil the batch.
Thanks in advance.

 

[Closet Fermenter]

I have never purchased anything but dry yeast. I will concede that there are probably liquid yeasts that can do better jobs with certain recipes, but I have found the dry yeast to work just fine.
I have also harvested the yeast cake and reused it months later with very little manipulation and had it do just as well or better. The Voss that I reused last week started perking within 10-15 of hooking up the blowoff. I did add a little Fermax, but did nothing else special with it. It reached final gravity in 3 days!

 

[AlexKay]

Im hoping to do Kölsch soon myself. I am still comparing recipes and selecting a yeast. Can you share the specifics of what you mean by “cold” and “warm”. I’m concerned that I I guess wrong, it might spoil the batch.
Thanks in advance.

I should definitely clarify here: those have been my solutions for beers that I would happily make with Kolsch yeast (Grodziskie, CA common). I’ve been happy enough with them, but making actual Kolsch(-style ale) is probably even more of a stretch.

I like Nottingham at 60ish, or 34/70 in the mid-60s.

 

[Thnderhill]

One thing I cannot comprehend is how we do not have a dry version of the Fuller's strain yet. Huge frustration for me.

Proprietary yeast, that’s why

 

[day_trippr]

If it can be found in a bottle it can be propagated at will without issue legal or otherwise as one cannot patent/trademark/copyright genetics.
Considering the broad scope of dry yeasts available I'm betting it simply doesn't take to drying well...

Cheers!

 

[VTMongoose]

Proprietary yeast, that’s why

Regardless of which specific strain they are using, I would take a dried version of WLP002, WY1968, or even WY1469. All have given me a wonderful ester character in my British beers.

 

[InspectorJon]

one cannot patent/trademark/copyright genetics

At the risk of turning political, please inform Monsanto about this. I think the corn and soy farmers would disagree.

There seems to be some speculation that Fuller’s is multi strain, making it difficult to replicate.

 

[day_trippr]

Genetically modified seeds can be patented. Naturally occurring genetics cannot - which covers virtually all yeast strains, save for any that have in fact been genetically modified.

And there is nothing political about this.

Cheers!

 

[duncan_disorderly]

Regardless of which specific strain they are using, I would take a dried version of WLP002, WY1968, or even WY1469. All have given me a wonderful ester character in my British beers.

A dried version of WY1318 would and could be a good start. Verdant IPA is effectively a version of 1318, but it's a distorted version with non English esters. It obviously dries very well, it's a quality dried yeast. Let's have a straight version of 1318, it would such a welcome break through. I'd also be delighted to get dry versions of 1968 or 1469, or any English yeast, with the character retained.