Dry yeast or not Dry yeast that is the question!

[LarryC]

Well, I'd think that you weren't overpitching necessarily. I like mrmalty.com's pitching calculator: Mr Malty Pitching Rate Calculator

That will tell you the optimum amount of yeast, dry or liquid.

Keep in mind though that if you use an extra 1/4 pack, then you're not going to be able to use the rest of the 3/4 package later. Dry yeast will not keep well once it's been exposed to oxygen (air). I think that it will only be useful for another week or so at best, but I forget the actual time/length/science behind it.

Thanks for the tip! It looks like adding a bit more isn't a bad Idea and the pack I will be parting out is getting towards it's "end" date.

Just curious, what is the result of over pitching, off flavors?

 

[BlindLemonLars]

Smart + Bad recall = Me, yooper and half the other regulars. lol

Guilty!! (Admitting it is the first step.)

 

[Denny's Evil Concoctions]

Guilty!! (Admitting it is the first step.)

Admitting what?.. Oh right... I forgot.:cross:

 

[DeathBrewer]

I have found the same thing, my Kolsch is great with K-97! I would highly recommend.

I'll have to give that a shot!

 

[Yooper]

Thanks for the tip! It looks like adding a bit more isn't a bad Idea and the pack I will be parting out is getting towards it's "end" date.

Just curious, what is the result of over pitching, off flavors?

It's actually hard for homebrewers to overpitch, but it's possible in some unusual cases. Most homebrewers underpitch, as I'm sure you know.

If you do overpitch, the yeast don't go through their "growth" phase, so there are some flavor issues, but it's more an issue of attenuation. I found this very good explanation here from NQ3X: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/837484-post4.html

 

[cheyne430]

That is wrong on so many levels. While you may not necessarily need to rehydrate, you will get many many times more viable yeast cells if you do.

That said, one of course needs to rehydrate properly as per directions.

It says on Fermentis packs not to rehydrate. "Pitching: Sprinkle into wort" The people that rehydrate them think they are doing something good... but they're just wasting their time.

 

[Denny's Evil Concoctions]

It says on Fermentis packs not to rehydrate. "Pitching: Sprinkle into wort" The people that rehydrate them think they are doing something good... but they're just wasting their time.

That's complete BS. Do some research.

Just because you work at a HBS doesn't mean you know wtf you are talking about.

From Danstar's website (Nottingham etc):

Why is rehydrating the dry yeast before pitching important?

Dry beer yeast needs to be reconstituted in a gentle way. During rehydration the cell membrane undergoes changes which can be lethal to yeast. In order to reconstitute the yeast as gently as possible (and minimize/avoid any damage) yeast producers developed specific rehydration procedures. Although most dry beer yeast will work if pitched directly into wort, it is recommended to follow the rehydration instructions to insure the optimum performance of the yeast.

From Fermentis (Safale etc):

Re-hydrate the dry yeast into yeast cream in a stirred vessel prior to pitching. Sprinkle the dry yeast in 10 times its own weight of sterile water or wort at 27C ± 3C. Once the expected weight of dry yeast is reconstituted into cream by this method (this takes about 15 to 30 minutes), maintain a gentle stirring for another 30 minutes. Then pitch the resultant cream into the fermentation vessel.

Alternatively, pitch dry yeast directly in the fermentation vessel providing the temperature of the wort is above 20C. Progressively sprinkle the dry yeast into the wort ensuring the yeast covers all the surface of wort available in order to avoid clumps. Leave for 30 minutes and then mix the wort e.g. using aeration.

Pitching dry yeast directly onto wort results in more osmotic shock than rehydrating the yeast in water, resulting in less yeast surviving yeast cells. While there is usually enough cells in a packet of yeast to overcome the loss, you will have more yeast cells per pitch by rehydrating the yeast in water (note: never rehydrate in distilled water).

 

[MBasile]

So, we've covered the potential (yet highly unlikely) issues of over pitching. I still have two questions though:

1. What is considered "overpitching?" MrMalty says 1.2 packs of dry for the IPA I'm doing soon. Would 2 packs be vastly overpitching?

2. What are the issues of underpitching? Slow fermentation onset leading to a longer period of time bacteria have to attack?

 

[Denny's Evil Concoctions]

2. What are the issues of underpitching? Slow fermentation onset leading to a longer period of time bacteria have to attack?

Also higher ester profile which is why Belgian breweries tend to underpitch on purpose.

 

[bernerbrau]

It says on Fermentis packs not to rehydrate. "Pitching: Sprinkle into wort" The people that rehydrate them think they are doing something good... but they're just wasting their time.

http://www.fermentis.com/FO/pdf/HB/EN/Safale_S-04_HB.pdf

Pitching instructions:
Re-hydrate the dry yeast into yeast cream in a stirred vessel prior to pitching. Sprinkle the dry yeast in 10 times its own weight of sterile water or wort at 27C ± 3C. Once the expected weight of dry yeast is reconstituted into cream by this method (this takes about 15 to 30 minutes), maintain a gentle stirring for another 30 minutes. Then pitch the resultant cream into the fermentation vessel.

 

[shek]

Why shouldn't we rehydrate in distilled water? Not that I have but I'm curious. Do the yeasties need the various ions found in common tap water to be happy?

 

[BlindLemonLars]

Sprinkle the dry yeast in 10 times its own weight of sterile water or wort at 27C ± 3C.

That's really the key to proper hydration...the correct volume and temperature of the water. If you can't (or won't) get those two things correct, you're probably better off pitching dry.

Personally, I pitch dry onto smallish beers, and and carefully rehydrate for bigger ales and all lagers.

 

[Denny's Evil Concoctions]

Why shouldn't we rehydrate in distilled water? Not that I have but I'm curious. Do the yeasties need the various ions found in common tap water to be happy?

Has to do with osmatic pressure.

 

[BierMuncher]

dry is for those too cheap to buy liquid. with a liquid, you can make the same recipe two or three times and pitch different yeast each time and have three different end results. btw... if you do decide to do dry... DON'T REHYDRATE! just pour it into your fermenter. it knows what to do. I work at a brew supply shop and way too many people end up killing their yeast when they rehydrate it.

Too cheap...?
Same recipe and you want three different results..?
Don't rehydrate...?
Killing yeast by rehydrating it (what exactly happens when you dump yeast into liquid wort?)
Stocking shelves at the grocery store doesn't make you a chef.

On so many levels you have just joined that group of kids on the other side of the school gymnasium that nobody is going to choose for their dodge-ball team.

Usually people work their way over there gradually, but you managed to accomplish this in one fell swoop.

 

[Pappers_]

Too cheap...?
Same recipe and you want three different results..?
Don't rehydrate...?
Killing yeast by rehydrating it (what exactly happens when you dump yeast into liquid wort?)
Stocking shelves at the grocery store doesn't make you a chef.

On so many levels you have just joined that group of kids on the other side of the school gymnasium that nobody is going to choose for their dodge-ball team.

Usually people work their way over there gradually, but you managed to accomplish this in one fell swoop.

This made me chuckle . . . thanks!

 

[Revvy]

This made me chuckle . . . thanks!

I just wonder if yoops gonna delete the big b's comment from this thread, like evidently she chose to do with all the others that called him on his "stuff."

 

[Pappers_]

I just wonder if yoops gonna delete the big b's comment from this thread, like evidently she chose to do with all the others that called him on his "stuff."

When I see deleted posts (like the ones above) I have to admit I am overcome with curiosity about what they said . . . kinda like when someone is whispering a secret to someone else - I just gotta know!!!

 

[Revvy]

Honestly it really wasn't anything too exciting...that's why I can't figure out why yoop deleted all of it...including her post..which really wasn't anything stronget than what BM just posted...and the rest of us just laughed....

oh well!!!

 

[BlindLemonLars]

When I see deleted posts (like the ones above) I have to admit I am overcome with curiosity about what they said . . . kinda like when someone is whispering a secret to someone else - I just gotta know!!!

You don't wanna know...they were all about you.

 

[Pappers_]

You don't wanna know...they were all about you.

Dammit, I knew you bastards were talking about me . . .

 

[DeathBrewer]

I don't remember what I said, but I'm sure it was epic and you all missed out.

 

[MT2sum]

I have always used dry yeasts, I only do Ales - Stouts, Porters, IPA's, Wheats and Pales - the only two times I ever used liquid yeast was a couple of tubes from the LHBS when I was living down in Tennessee, and by the time I got them home, (an hour drive), they were both dead .... I had to use some dry US-05 in one and S-04 in the other to save the two different batches (which ended out fine!). I do rehydrate, although years ago I just 'sprinkled' but had slow starts and low fermentation results. With rehydration, I've noticed I have quick starts and some blowouts, so I use a tube in a quart of water for the first couple of days, rather than the air lock. YMMV! Whenever I go back home to Montana, I continue to use dry yeasts exclusively - US-05, Nottingham, Windsor, and S-04, although I would like to find out if there is a company that makes a good German/Bavarian dry yeast (Mangrove Jack maybe? I've never found it locally so I don't know if they have it ....). My Wheat beers need a bit of a German character AFAIAC ;>).

I guess you can classify me as a cheapo if you want, becuz after paying $14 for those two tubes and $1.50 each for the dry yeasts, I see a huge advantage to using dry yeast over liquids. I also like the advantages of a greater number of yeast cells in a packet of dry v. using liquid/starters/etc. to get the same number of cells. I also don't need a lot of different flavors for my beers, {Same recipe and you want three different results..?} I like what I make and drink what I make, as do some of my friends.

To each his own tho, I prefer saving the extra dough to spend on more grains, yeasts, and hops for another brew along the way. Just my 2 centavos ......

MT2sum

 

[Unicorn_Platypus]

I rehydrate dry yeast only when pitching in wort > 1.070 or if I'm making a lager and fermenting cool. I rehydrate using Evian or other hard water.

I've had great results with dry yeast in both ales and lagers. I always pitch a ton of yeast as its super cheap. For high gravity and lagers I'll pitch 2-3 packets per 5g.

Nottinham is great for Barleywine and Imperial stouts.

saflager w-34/70 great for lagers if you use it correctly too

Lately, I've been using liquid strains purely for the variety.