Dry vs. Liquid

[Clintdowns]

Dry yeast vs. liquid yeast??????

 

[RM-MN]

I put a packet of dry yeast in my refrigerator in March and took it out this month to pitch in my latest brew. It was bubbling the next morning, no starter, no rehydrating, just dumped it on top of the bubbles that were at the top of the wort.

 

[bcryan]

i started liquid. went to dry. and now going back to liquid. with the price of dry now it has motivated me to start washing yeast.

 

[blizzard]

You'll find people on both sides of the argument, since there are pros and cons to both. I prefer liquid for ales because of the variety and I prefer dry for lagers because it's easier to get a high pitch rate. I like keeping a few packets of dry around for a backup, or when I don't have time to make a starter. With dry yeast prices going up it has less of a benefit, IMO.

 

[JimTheHick]

Variety is heavily in liquid's favor. I use both.

 

[Revvy]

It's not a competition, it's not an argument, they both serve their purposes, one is NOT better than other....

If you're brewing a standard ale it's a waste of time and money to use liquid yeast. Dry yeast is fine for 99% of the brewing we do.

I have found that a lot of new brewers especially, THINK they HAVE to use liquid yeast for everything, but in reality most ales can be made with Notty, Windsor, Us-05, Us-04 and many lagers with basic Saflager.....7-8 bucks a pop for liquid as opposed to $1.50-2.50 for dry, with more cell count, is imho just a waste of money for the majority of a brewer's recipe bank...most commercial ales us a limited range of strains, and those liquid strains are really the same strains that the afore mentioned dry strains cover, for example Us-05 is the famed "Chico strain", so if you are paying 7-8 bucks for Wyeast 1056 American/Chico Ale Yeast, and you STILL have to make a starter to have enough viable cells, then you are ripping yourself off, in terms of time and money....

I use dry yeast for 99% of my beers, for basic ales I use safale 05, for more british styles I us safale 04 and for basic lagers I use saflager..

The only time I use liquid yeast is if I am making a beer where the yeast drives the style, where certain flavor characteristics are derived from the yeast, such as phenols. Like Belgian beers, where you get spicy/peppery flavors from the yeast and higher temp fermentation. Or let's say a wheat beer (needing a lowly flocculant yest) or a Kholsch, where the style of the beer uses a specific yeast strain that is un available in dry form. Or certain certain specific English ale strains like Yorkshire or Burton

But if you are looking for a "clean" yeast profile, meaning about 90% of american ales, the 05, or nottingham is the way to go. Need "Bready" or yeasty for English ales, then 04 or windsor. Want a clean, low profile lager yeast- saflager usually does the trick.[

 

[blizzard]

...most commercial ales us a limited range of strains, and those liquid strains are really the same strains that the afore mentioned dry strains cover....

I don't think the dry strains cover most of what pro brewers use and there is a lot of variety among the liquid strains, even in yeast that produces the same style. Wyeast 1272 is very different from S-05, even though they are both "clean" yeasts. Wyeast 1968 is very different from 1728, and neither is the same as S-04.

I agree that S-05 and Notty are a relatively cheap way to produce clean beers, but the OP should experiment and see what yeast produces the flavors they like. With rising prices in dry yeast and the ability to wash yeast, the savings with dry yeast are no longer as pronounced as they once were.

 

[kyleobie]

Wyeast 1272 is very different from S-05, even though they are both "clean" yeasts. Wyeast 1968 is very different from 1728, and neither is the same as S-04.

+1. I just used 1272 in a rye pale ale and found it to accentuate the malt and round out the hop flavor in a completely different way than 1056/S-05. Similarly my homebrew club recently did a contest for an ESB using different English and Scottish yeasts and the same grain bill and hop schedule. The variation in flavors was incredible.

Having said that, there are some fantastic dry yeasts on the market, they work well without a starter, and they're cheap. Brewers who don't feel like getting in the weeds on different varieties of American or English yeasts could do far, far worse than just opting for SF-05 or Nottingham.

 

[beergolf]

Both work just fine.

Dry yeasts work for a few styles. I use US-05 a lot in my IPA/APA's.

There are however many styles that dry is just not available so liquid is the way to go. Saisions, Belgians are two that come to mind.

Use whatever is appropriate for the brew you are making.

 

[Revvy]

I don't think the dry strains cover most of what pro brewers use and there is a lot of variety among the liquid strains, even in yeast that produces the same style. Wyeast 1272 is very different from S-05, even though they are both "clean" yeasts. Wyeast 1968 is very different from 1728, and neither is the same as S-04.

I agree that S-05 and Notty are a relatively cheap way to produce clean beers, but the OP should experiment and see what yeast produces the flavors they like. With rising prices in dry yeast and the ability to wash yeast, the savings with dry yeast are no longer as pronounced as they once were.

Actually a LOT of probreweries use dry yeast. ALL the yeast houses whether they make liquid or dry have commercial divisions.

Good quality dry yeast has been used by commercial breweries for decades if not longer, and it was only since Homebrewing was legalized was the stuff we know available to homebrewers.

That's why every dry yeast house has industrial divisions.

Danstars website even alludes to this...

The use of active dried professional yeasts for amateur brewing is a relatively new phenomenon introduced by Lallemand. Now, choose your active dried yeast for brewing with confidence. Ask for Danstar superior quality yeasts at your local retailer.

And this from Fermentis....Beer Industrial Brewing Why use Fermentis Yeast

This is usually what commercial breweries pitch in terms of dry yeasts some varient of a box.

The idea that commercial breweries don't use dry yeast is another one of those silly notions like the idea that some breweries don't use extract.....

The idea of dry yeast is "bad" is really a holdover from the bad old days of homebrew prohibition (prior to 1978 in america) when yeast came over in hot ship cargo holds, was of indeterminant pedigree and may have sat on the shelves under those cans of blue ribbon malt extract in the grocery store for god knows how long. That is simply not the case in the 21st century- all yeasts, liquid or dry ave excellent and can be used, EVEN the stuff that comes with kits.

Palmer doesn't bash dry yeasts...

Yeast come in two main product forms, dry and liquid. (There is also another form, available as pure cultures on petri dishes or slants, but it is generally used as one would use liquid yeast.) Dry yeast are select, hardy strains that have been dehydrated for storability. There are a lot of yeast cells in a typical 7 gram packet. For best results, it needs to be re-hydrated before it is pitched. For the first-time brewer, a dry ale yeast is highly recommended.

Dry yeast is convenient for the beginning brewer because the packets provide a lot of viable yeast cells, they can be stored for extended periods of time and they can be prepared quickly on brewing day. It is common to use one or two packets (7 - 14 grams) of dried yeast for a typical five gallon batch. This amount of yeast, when properly re-hydrated, provides enough active yeast cells to ensure a strong fermentation. Dry yeast can be stored for extended periods (preferably in the refrigerator) but the packets do degrade with time. This is one of the pitfalls with brewing from the no-name yeast packets taped to the top of a can of malt extract. They are probably more than a year old and may not be very viable. It is better to buy another packet or three of a reputable brewer's yeast that has been kept in the refrigerator at the brewshop. Some leading and reliable brands of dry yeast are DCL Yeast, Yeast Labs (marketed by G.W. Kent, produced by Lallemand of Canada), Cooper's, DanStar (produced by Lallemand), Munton & Fison and Edme.

Dry yeasts are good but the rigor of the dehydration process limits the number of different ale strains that are available and in the case of dry lager yeast, eliminates them almost entirely. A few dry lager yeasts do exist, but popular opinion is that they behave more like ale yeasts than lager. DCL Yeast markets two strains of dry lager yeast, Saflager S-189 and S-23, though only S-23 is currently available in a homebrewing size. The recommended fermentation temperature is 48-59°F. I would advise you to use two packets per 5 gallon batch to be assured of a good pitching rate.

The only thing missing with dry yeast is real individuality, which is where liquid yeasts come in. Many more different strains of yeast are available in liquid form than in dry.

Liquid yeast used to come in 50 ml foil pouches, and did not contain as many yeast cells as in the dry packets. The yeast in these packages needed to be grown in a starter wort to bring the cell counts up to a more useful level. In the past few years, larger 175 ml pouches (Wyeast Labs) and ready-to-pitch tubes (White Labs) have become the most popular forms of liquid yeast packaging and contain enough viable cells to ferment a five gallon batch.

The Yeast like Notty, Us-05, u-04, and many others, made my Danstar, and fermentis are some of the best yeast around, they are just as good as the liquid strains, in fact, many are the exact same strains as those by whitelabs, and wyyeast, just in dry forms.

Good quality dry yeast has been used by commercial breweries for decades if not longer, and it was only since Homebrewing was legalized was the stuff we know available to homebrewers.

That's why every dry yeast house has industrial divisions.

Danstars website even alludes to this...

The use of active dried professional yeasts for amateur brewing is a relatively new phenomenon introduced by Lallemand. Now, choose your active dried yeast for brewing with confidence. Ask for Danstar superior quality yeasts at your local retailer.

And this from Fermentis....Beer Industrial Brewing Why use Fermentis Yeast

Bottom line, use what you want, but realize that is only a preference. Both liquid and dry are excellent these days. They both have the potential to make great or crappy beer.

 

[ArcaneXor]

If you're brewing a standard ale it's a waste of time and money to use liquid yeast. Dry yeast is fine for 99% of the brewing we do.

I have found that a lot of new brewers especially, THINK they HAVE to use liquid yeast for everything, but in reality most ales can be made with Notty, Windsor, Us-05, Us-04 and many lagers with basic Saflager.....

There are some excellent dry yeasts on the market, and I do usually use US-05 instead of WLP 001 for convenience (even though I think there are slight differences in the ester profile they produce - US-05 is a little fruitier and less attenuative). But it's in the variety of available strains that the major benefit of the liquid vials lies. While it's true that many commercial breweries use a very limited number of house strains, we as homebrewers are not limited to the same kind of limitations as craft brewers, and should - in my personal opinion - embrace the diversity of "the fourth ingredient" every bit as much as the diversity in malts and hops. After all, we don't usually say "Maris Otter is a waste of money, standard pale malt will do the job fine".

 

[osagedr]

I brew mostly lagers, and love the simplicity and convenience of pitching rehydrated dry yeast as opposed to making monster starters several days ahead of time. DME ain't free where I live. Having said that, there could certainly be cases where I want a specific strain not available in dry (2633 or 2308 are good examples). For most of my lagers, I've found 34/70 to be an awesome workhorse yeast that thrives at low temperatures. Also looking forward to my first experience with S-189 very soon.