Double Boil a 6 gallon Carboy with Wort?

[head_dunce]

I agree with what most everyone else is saying as far as what may happen but I say go for it anyway!

Thanks!

It's like you guys never made drano bombs before or something, eesh...

 

[luke_d]

I'm just imagining a hot break in a carboy...volcano status.

 

[Ryush806]

I'm just imagining a hot break in a carboy...volcano status.

Won't even make it to that point. The only danger for this guy is burning himself on his double boiler or breaking his carboy before he ever gets it in there. As much as I think a hot break volcano would be epic, just not gonna happen. Now if he direct fired his carboy, all bets are off...

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

I've had mini breakanos when boiling starter wort in the flask. Directly on a hot plate, of course. (prepare for sarcasm... now) How does he do it? you ask. Pyrex, my friends. Pyrex.

 

[kh54s10]

Won't even make it to that point. The only danger for this guy is burning himself on his double boiler or breaking his carboy before he ever gets it in there. As much as I think a hot break volcano would be epic, just not gonna happen. Now if he direct fired his carboy, all bets are off...

If the wort boils there will be hot break. It is going somewhere. I bet it would build pressure and spew!

 

[Ryush806]

If the wort boils there will be hot break. It is going somewhere. I bet it would build pressure and spew!

That's the problem. A double boiler physically cannot boil what is inside the "inner pot" (carboy in this case)

 

[Dolomieu]

I've had mini breakanos when boiling starter wort in the flask. Directly on a hot plate, of course. (prepare for sarcasm... now) How does he do it? you ask. Pyrex, my friends. Pyrex.

They make boil beads for this reason. we use them occasionally in the lab, but it seems like they would be a PITA for our application.

I do a similar thing on my stir/hot plate. It's nice to be able to heat and mix in the sugar and walk away. Then when its done boiling i use a pyrex casserole dish, put it on the stir plate with the flask back in it. Add water and ice and walk away. cools down pretty. Made starters a breeze.

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

They make boil beads for this reason. we use them occasionally in the lab, but it seems like they would be a PITA for our application.

Fermcap S pretty much does away with it for me. But if you forget to add a drop, and walk away, it gets messy.

 

[chickens4life]

the issue with boiling in a double boiler is compounded when boiling wort, which actually has a BP higher than the water you would be using to heat it.

but a serious suggestion, just boil and ferment in the same 6-8 gallon stainless steel pot, every thing gets sanitized by the boil and you have a perfect fermentation vessel right there. just rack to bottling bucket or keg after fermentation is done, only one transfer.

 

[unionrdr]

The lid on the kettle isn't going to seal as well as a fermentation vessel. Yes,they did open fermentation for centuries,but they also lost a lot of batches. It was mostly hit or miss. I've spent the money on what I need to do it with what we like to call the right way. Not the cheapest,least involved way humanly possible. You can only go so cheap on something before ruining it. That's one thing I've learned in close to 6 decades.

 

[JDGator]

i did some work with glass in a science class in grade 9. glass won't shatter because of the heat. we would heat a glass tube up over a gas burner and bend it into shapes. what you didn't want to do was drop it into cold water. the thermal shock would cause it to break. i split my thumb open trying to bend the glass when it wasn't ready to form.

how do you think glass is formed? you heat it up to around 1800f (not 100% sure on the temp) and then in becomes close to a honey consistency and you can mold it. you can also cool it down slowly and it goes back to the way it was. no issues at all.

 

[JDGator]

oh and i meant to add, not really sure why you would even want to try it. but to each their own. good luck

 

[TheZymurgist]

i did some work with glass in a science class in grade 9. glass won't shatter because of the heat. we would heat a glass tube up over a gas burner and bend it into shapes. what you didn't want to do was drop it into cold water. the thermal shock would cause it to break. i split my thumb open trying to bend the glass when it wasn't ready to form.

how do you think glass is formed? you heat it up to around 1800f (not 100% sure on the temp) and then in becomes close to a honey consistency and you can mold it. you can also cool it down slowly and it goes back to the way it was. no issues at all.

Those are completely different conditions. First, I'm betting the glass was pretty thin, so easy to heat quickly and evenly. Second, you didn't have any liquid in or around the glass. Sorry, but you're talking apples to oranges.

 

[kh54s10]

That's the problem. A double boiler physically cannot boil what is inside the "inner pot" (carboy in this case)

I thought the point of a double boiler was to keep what is inside from direct contact with a scorching heat source. I do think that if you heat the outer liquid to boiling and keep it there long enough the inner pot would boil also.

Hence the hot break volcano.

Also if the brew is going to work properly the bittering hop additions need to be boiled.

 

[deepcdan99]

Id rather clean an extra pot or take an extra step than risk injuring myself or others and avoid destroying anything in my home or yard. Though the idea may not be a good idea, it has got a lot of us thinking about why or why not we do things. That is why I love this site.

 

[Ryush806]

I thought the point of a double boiler was to keep what is inside from direct contact with a scorching heat source. I do think that if you heat the outer liquid to boiling and keep it there long enough the inner pot would boil also.

Hence the hot break volcano.

Also if the brew is going to work properly the bittering hop additions need to be boiled.

You are correct, that is the point of the double boiler. But the inner pot will not boil unless you have a liquid with a much higher boiling point on the outside. If you just have water on the outside it will get to a max of 212 F. The wort will therefore get to a max of 212 F. Just being at the boiling point will not cause a liquid to boil. Additional heat must be added to cause the water to change from the liquid phase to the vapor phase. Since there is no temperature differential (212 - 212 = 0) at this point, no heat transfer will occur so no phase change will occur. Hence no boil. Like someone said earlier, this issue is compounded further by the fact that the boiling point of wort will be slightly higher than pure water anyway.

 

[Dolomieu]

i did some work with glass in a science class in grade 9. glass won't shatter because of the heat. we would heat a glass tube up over a gas burner and bend it into shapes. what you didn't want to do was drop it into cold water. the thermal shock would cause it to break. i split my thumb open trying to bend the glass when it wasn't ready to form.

how do you think glass is formed? you heat it up to around 1800f (not 100% sure on the temp) and then in becomes close to a honey consistency and you can mold it. you can also cool it down slowly and it goes back to the way it was. no issues at all.

You can't fire polish non silicate glass or heat and bend it with out causing stress fractures. To manipulate by fire you have to raise to temp on the whole object. That's how the guys that flare out the tops of bottles do it. Its just the difference in the type of glass. Pyrex can be fire polished with a propane torch. I snap and fire glass rods at work once a year and fire polish the edges of beaker when needed.

 

[Misplaced_Canuck]

That's the problem. A double boiler physically cannot boil what is inside the "inner pot" (carboy in this case)

FINALLY someone got it right.

I tried this experiment last year: Double boiling an erlenmeyer.

MC

 

[Dolomieu]

Fermcap S pretty much does away with it for me. But if you forget to add a drop, and walk away, it gets messy.

Ferm cap kind of slipped my mind.

 

[jbaysurfer]

So transferrring to the fermentor is more work and more dangerous then dealing with boilover, dms, breakage/safety issues, "line(ing) a carboy w/ an IC (so you must be using a 20G kettle, because no IC around a Carboy is going to fit into a standard 10-15G kettle or a keggle)...etc...

All in the name of "saving money and better homebrew", but really it does neither.

Troll on. This site cracks me up.

 

[kh54s10]

You are correct, that is the point of the double boiler. But the inner pot will not boil unless you have a liquid with a much higher boiling point on the outside. If you just have water on the outside it will get to a max of 212 F. The wort will therefore get to a max of 212 F. Just being at the boiling point will not cause a liquid to boil. Additional heat must be added to cause the water to change from the liquid phase to the vapor phase. Since there is no temperature differential (212 - 212 = 0) at this point, no heat transfer will occur so no phase change will occur. Hence no boil. Like someone said earlier, this issue is compounded further by the fact that the boiling point of wort will be slightly higher than pure water anyway.

I am no physicist but 212 is boiling temp. I don't know if wort takes a bit more, but I see foam rise in my pot before it boils. So I still feel the risk of an exploding carboy or spewing hot break is not worth the risk to reinvent this wheel.

 

[LovesIPA]

Ha, you guys are too much. So if I take one of these cheap pint glasses I've got here, put it in a pot of water, then boil it all, it'll crack and explode?

Out of ALL the reasons in this thread that demonstrate this is a really dumb idea, why do you only choose this one to respond to? Low-hanging fruit?

What about the fact that your wort won't boil? Or the fact that the narrow opening of the carboy is going to basically prevent DMS from escaping? (I hope you like the taste of cooked vegetables in your beer) What about the fact that glass carboys are inherently dangerous to begin with, and now you're trying to operate it outside of the use it was designed for?

To be honest, I'm not sure I'd trust you with the tools you'd need to do this. You don't seem to have much life experience.

 

[NordeastBrewer77]

Ferm cap kind of slipped my mind.

Almost slipped mine too, about 30 mins ago while I was boiling a flask of wort. Thankfully, caffeine kicked in and I grabbed the vial right as the boil started.

 

[CBMbrewer]

This is a really bad idea.
Since your going to do it anyway, how about some pictures?

 

[justkev52]

With the carboy is inside a metal container filled with water, if the carboy broke, not much would happen aside from some lost money and time. The carboy would have to be held inside the metal container because it would obviously float otherwise. The metal container could also be lined with an immersion cooler.

The venting for a rolling boil might get interesting, thanks for the info on DMS. I'd think starting with just trying to boil a couple gallons in the carboy would be the place to start. Some type of attachment to the carboy may need to be dreamed up?

Hummm... I'm going to have to find some metal and pull out the torch.

You are CRAZY!! Just my 2 cents.

 

[JDGator]

Those are completely different conditions. First, I'm betting the glass was pretty thin, so easy to heat quickly and evenly. Second, you didn't have any liquid in or around the glass. Sorry, but you're talking apples to oranges.

No i'm comparing apple to apples. Thick glass or thin glass behave the same way. Lol. And what difference does the water make? It would only take longer to heat up?? Not sure you really understand the properties of glass. It's also known as a superliquid because it's properties are not the same as a solid. Glass windows will actually sag to the bottom. If you cut the glass window, you will see its thicker at the bottom then top.

 

[JDGator]

Well not to be rude but we did it in grade 9 class. Lol we took a tube of glass, heated the center with a gas burner, and bent it. Held it for 10-15 min and it was good to go. Drank water through it.

 

[Ryush806]

I am no physicist but 212 is boiling temp. I don't know if wort takes a bit more, but I see foam rise in my pot before it boils. So I still feel the risk of an exploding carboy or spewing hot break is not worth the risk to reinvent this wheel.

This is probably a little OT, but the foam you see is the O2, CO2, chlorine etc coming out of solution because their solubility drops rapidly as waters boiling point is approached. The surface tension of the wort will somewhat contain the gasses as foam but the real volcano show would only happen if you actually started boiling.

 

[hunter_le five]

Subscribed.

 

[boydster]

Glass windows will actually sag to the bottom. If you cut the glass window, you will see its thicker at the bottom then top.

That has been pretty thoroughly disproved. You can look it up if you want to spend more time on it, but the glass you refer to was pressed with a roller, which left it thicker at one end than the other. There is glass from ancient Roman times that hasn't "sagged to the bottom." We make glass differently now, and it doesn't sag to the bottom.

Ok here's a gimme, just for fun: http://www.glassnotes.com/WindowPanes.html