Do I Need This much Yeast? (SMaSh-Pilsner Recipe included)

[Iowa Brewer]

Hey all,
This weekend I'm brewing 6gal (22.7L) of my SMaSH Czech-ish Pilsner, using Saflager 34/70. The packets I bought were created in May 2024, but BeerSmith3's Starter Calculator recommends 2.4 packs to do the job (spending 3 packs). Does this seems right? I know it's important not to under pitch with lagers, so I'll do it if I need to, but it seems odd that a dry yeast this early in it's cycle would need that much. Am I wrong?

Thanks for any insights you might have!

Here's the recipe to give an idea (and if anyone wants to give it a go):

IowaBrewer's Czech-ish Pilsner
German Pilsner Malt – 10lbs
Saaz (2.5%) – 60min
Saaz (2.5%) – 40min
Saaz (2.5%) – 20min
Saflager 34/70

Water 8.75gal of R/O
Calcium Chloride – 0.53
Epsom Salt – 0.61
Lactic Acid (added to mash) – 2.45ml

Here's how the day plays out In my Electric BIAB (built by Bobby over at brewhardware.com), which circulates the wort over the grains:
Mash
1. 95F – 5min acid rest
2. 144F – 30min protein rest
4. 160F – 45min saccharification
5. 170 – 15min mash out

Boil
For 60min with hop additions

Ferment
Still working this out, but first/previous time I pressure fermented at 15psi, 66F. Turned out nice and crisp!

 

[lumpher]

If you're fermenting 6 gallons in the mid 60's temps, I'd use 2 packs, not 3. The calculators assume you're fermenting in the low to mid 50's for lagers. Thats why you need more is that lower temps = longer lag/replication time.

 

[IslandLizard]

I agree with @lumpher, the 2 sachets should be plenty to do the job.

Dry yeast doesn't lose viability that much or quickly over time. Especially when stored refrigerated and even less so when frozen, as long as the package stays closed and dry inside.

Now once the granules are allowed to get damp inside, such as an opened package that wasn't well sealed and/or encapsulated inside a 2nd well sealed baggie, their life span becomes very short.

2. 144F – 30min protein rest

Isn't that a bit high? Protein rests are usually done around 113-131˚F.

4. 160F – 45min saccharification

That also sounds a little high, even more so for a Pilsner.
Isn't 1 hour at around 150-154°F more typical?

 

[Knightshade]

I've got a lager conditioning right now that I pitched 2 packets of 34/70 for. It took a little bit to take off, to a level that I felt the need to add yeast energizer around day 2 or 3, but it finished off as expected.

Had the same recipe a couple of months ago with 2 packets that took off like a rocket, so that was my only reference. Yeast is always stored in the fridge, and pitched direct vs rehydrating.

 

[Iowa Brewer]

If you're fermenting 6 gallons in the mid 60's temps, I'd use 2 packs, not 3. The calculators assume you're fermenting in the low to mid 50's for lagers. Thats why you need more is that lower temps = longer lag/replication time.

Hey, thanks, lumpher! That makes sense, but I had set my starter for pressure fermentation with the temps listed above. Do you think I should go for 2.5 packs?

 

[lumpher]

Hey, thanks, lumpher! That makes sense, but I had set my starter for pressure fermentation with the temps listed above. Do you think I should go for 2.5 packs?

No need for more. You don't even really need 2 for that recipe at warm temps. 1.5 would be plenty, but at 6 gallons and around 5% and pressure-fermenting, you'll still have plenty of yeast in there with 2 packs. I'd go no more or less than 2, even under pressure.

 

[Iowa Brewer]

I agree with @lumpher, the 2 sachets should be plenty to do the job.

Dry yeast doesn't lose viability that much or quickly over time. Especially when stored refrigerated and even less so when frozen, as long as the package stays closed and dry inside.

Now once the granules are allowed to get damp inside, such as an opened package that wasn't well sealed and/or encapsulated inside a 2nd well sealed baggie, their life span becomes very short.


Isn't that a bit high? Protein rests are usually done around 113-131˚F.

That also sounds a little high, even more so for a Pilsner.
Isn't 1 hour at around 150-154°F more typical?

This is great, IslandLizard!
Thanks so much for the tips and insight into the dry yeast.

 

[Iowa Brewer]

I've got a lager conditioning right now that I pitched 2 packets of 34/70 for. It took a little bit to take off, to a level that I felt the need to add yeast energizer around day 2 or 3, but it finished off as expected.

Had the same recipe a couple of months ago with 2 packets that took off like a rocket, so that was my only reference. Yeast is always stored in the fridge, and pitched direct vs rehydrating.

Cool, and thanks, Knightshade.
Yeah, I also pitch directly. Always worry about bugs with rehydrating.

 

[fluketamer]

No need for more. You don't even really need 2 for that recipe at warm temps. 1.5 would be plenty, but at 6 gallons and around 5% and pressure-fermenting, you'll still have plenty of yeast in there with 2 packs. I'd go no more or less than 2, even under pressure.

THIS.

likely 1 pack is enough if the wort is less than 1.050 which with 10 lbs of pilsner in 6 gallons should be iirc.

i find this yeast is really unforgiving. temp wise pitch rate wise and pressure wise. always seems to make great beer.

 

[dmtaylor]

2 packs is plenty, and even just 1 should be enough but maybe 2 is better. You don't need 3.

EDIT: And that was my initial response before reading anyone else's and before I realized you are fermenting warm. Warm!? You only need 1 pack.

 

[fluketamer]

i just saw warm......definitely one pack

 

[Conehead]

My best lager was made with 3 sachets of 34/70. I had 3 left in my fridge and didn't want one sachet left over because I was starting to brew bitters. So I used 3.

 

[Iowa Brewer]

Hey all,
Thanks for the advice! Ended up pitching 2 packets of the 34/70 at 3pm, yesterday, when I woke up today my fermenter was bubbling away like a beauty! At the 24hr mark, I'll close the spunding valve and let the pressure rise. If it doesn't get to ~12psi, I'll add some CO2, but going to try to keep to the reinheitsgebot .

Oh! And I hit my OG target on the money, which was nice.