Do I need a starter for Blue Moon clone?

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elgee

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I am going to be making the Austin Homebrew Blue Moon clone and wondering if I need a starter or not? I will be making the all grain version. I have made this kit before in the partial mash kit and used liquid. I have decided to use the T 58 dry yeast over the liquid to see how this will compare with the other kit I made a while back. I have never done a starter before and not sure if I really need one for this kit. I expect to have an abv between 6-7%.
 
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elgee

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What about just tossing it in and mixing...thoughts?
 

Yooper

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What about just tossing it in and mixing...thoughts?
Well, you don't want to rupture the yeast cells. Either rehydrate according to the package directions for best results and yeast health, or gently sprinkle the yeast on the top of the wort and let it gradually rehydrate itself and acclimate to the wort. Don't stir it in.
 

Denny

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Well, you don't want to rupture the yeast cells. Either rehydrate according to the package directions for best results and yeast health, or gently sprinkle the yeast on the top of the wort and let it gradually rehydrate itself and acclimate to the wort. Don't stir it in.
You may be technically correct, but I just dump in the dry yeast then hit it with my MixStir.
 

hepcat

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Mead makers, although using mostly wine-centric yeast(s), make starters with dry yeast. I see no reason why you couldn't do a starter with dry yeast if you wanted to.
 

kh54s10

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I have read articles written by the dry yeast companies (I think) that states they are formulated to work best without making a starter and that making a starter is actually worse than rehydrating or pitching dry.

I have done the sprinkle method and rehydrated and could tell no difference. They had about the same lag time and I could not taste anything off in either.
 

MisterTipsy

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I don't rehydrate dry yeast because the results have been good with dry pitching. I dry pitched and stirred with a big spoon one time and the yeast got clumpy, so I never did that again, but the beer was fine.

The instructions for s-05 says to sprinkle the yeast on the wort. It doesn't say rehydrate the yeast first. If it did, I'd still dry pitch because it works fine.
 

hepcat

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Yes it does say to rehydrate US-05. Maybe you should take another look.

http://www.brewshop.co.nz/pdf/safale_US-05_yeast.pdf

And, just like everything else with home brewing, there are multiple ways of doing things. You CAN make starters from dry yeast. To make the blanket statement that you cannot is completely FALSE. Cheers.

And kh54s10 site your source.
 

MisterTipsy

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Yes it does say to rehydrate US-05. Maybe you should take another look.

http://www.brewshop.co.nz/pdf/safale_US-05_yeast.pdf

Just like everything else with home brewing, there are multiple ways of doing things. You CAN make starters from dry yeast. To make the blanket statement that you cannot is completely FALSE. Cheers.
I'm looking at a pack of us-05 right now. The directions it provides says nothing more than

pitching: sprinkle into wort

Yes, you CAN make starters with dry yeast. You can do anything you want. It doesn't mean you should.

If I get good results dry pitching why should I bother with rehydrating? To increase the chance of infection? To say I did it the "proper" way?
 

kh54s10

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Yes it does say to rehydrate US-05. Maybe you should take another look.

http://www.brewshop.co.nz/pdf/safale_US-05_yeast.pdf

And, just like everything else with home brewing, there are multiple ways of doing things. You CAN make starters from dry yeast. To make the blanket statement that you cannot is completely FALSE. Cheers.

And kh54s10 site your source.
I can't remember the source. I did state that "I think" the article was written by the manufacturer.

AND I just looked at my packet of US05 it say "sprinkle into wort"

Also I don't see where anyone said you CAN'T make a starter. What has been said is that you don't need to and you shouldn't. I stated from what I have read (and no I am not going to try to find my source) that it is worse to make a starter than not, because of how the manufacturing process is done.
 

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From Fermentis site on US-05:

"Re-hydrate the dry yeast into yeast cream in a stirred vessel prior to pitching. Sprinkle the dry yeast in 10 times its own weight of sterile water or wort at 27C ± 3C (80F ± 6F). Once the expected weight of dry yeast is reconstituted into cream by this method (this takes about 15 to 30 minutes), maintain a gentle stirring for another 30 minutes. Then pitch the resultant cream into the fermentation vessel.

Alternatively, pitch dry yeast directly in the fermentation vessel providing the temperature of the wort is above 20C (68F). Progressively sprinkle the dry yeast into the wort ensuring the yeast covers all the surface of wort available in order to avoid clumps. Leave for 30 minutes and then mix the wort e.g. using aeration."

So...everyone's right! 🍻
 

wilserbrewer

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I am going to be making the Austin Homebrew Blue Moon clone and wondering if I need a starter or not? I will be making the all grain version. I have made this kit before in the partial mash kit and used liquid. I have decided to use the T 58 dry yeast over the liquid to see how this will compare with the other kit I made a while back. I have never done a starter before and not sure if I really need one for this kit. I expect to have an abv between 6-7%.

T-58? I always thought blue moon, or an american wheat beer was yeast nuetral...like S-O5? Not saying it won't be good...
abv 6-7 rom a blue moon kit? optimistic perhaps?

Form the web....
A speciality yeast selected for its estery somewhat peppery and spicy flavour development.
Sedimentation: medium. Final gravity: high.
Also recommended for bottle-conditioning of beers. Excellent performance in beers with
alcohol contents of up to 8.5%
 

MisterTipsy

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It's clear both methods work. Why rehydrate if you don't have to?

When both roads travel to the same place, I'm choosing the shorter route.
 

MisterTipsy

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Progressively sprinkle the dry yeast into the wort ensuring the yeast covers all the surface of wort available in order to avoid clumps. Leave for 30 minutes and then mix the wort e.g. using aeration."
I don't even mix or aerate the wort! I'm a dry yeast renegade. My beer should have a bunch of off flavors and be under attenuated, but it isn't. Maybe my palate sucks, but it doesn't.

My wort does get a lot of aeration as it dumps into the fermenter, so I've never bothered to aerate or agitate.
 

midfielder5

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wilserbrewer said:
T-58? I always thought blue moon, or an american wheat beer was yeast nuetral...like S-O5? Not saying it won't be good...
abv 6-7 rom a blue moon kit?
You are correct-- An ex-Coors brewer when
they came up with Blue Moon is a member here.
look for Wayne1 -
that is his handle.

AHS is not selling a "clone" as i see it. it might taste as good or better but blue moon is just 50% two row, 40% wheat, 10% flaked oats, coriander/orange at end of boil and good ole american ale yeast (wl 001, us 05 or wy 1056).
abv is about 4.5 to 5% and ibu are 16-18 with any noble hop at 60 minutes.
cheers!
 

hepcat

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It's clear both methods work. Why rehydrate if you don't have to?

When both roads travel to the same place, I'm choosing the shorter route.
What ever floats your boat. I'll keep doing it my way. It just seems there are some on this site that are hell bent on trying to get people to do things their way. And freak out if any one challenges or chooses an another way. I could care less if you or any body else brews the way i do. I'll listen to what you have to say, and may or may not agree.

And when you say 'you think' you 'might' have read or heard something and don't back it up with a credible source, that just sounds stupid.
 

MisterTipsy

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What ever floats your boat. I'll keep doing it my way. It just seems there are some on this site that are hell bent on trying to get people to do things their way. And freak out if any one challenges or chooses an another way. I could care less if you or any body else brews the way i do. I'll listen to what you have to say, and may or may not agree.
I'm not trying to convert anyone and don't care if people rehydrate dry yeast with their own piss. :D

Who is freaking out in this thread? I'm not. I'm simply stating how I do it and why. I've included a reputable study that demonstrates there is no significant difference in methods and I choose the simpler method. Why anyone would choose a more complicated method without a verifiable benefit doesn't make much sense to me.

Do you have any idea how many posts there are on this site that say you definitely should rehydrate your yeast? Thousands. Well, you don't have to and your beer will still taste good. That's all. :mug:
 

hepcat

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I didn't delete, that's weird. So glad you saw it though. Keep blowing that hot air bro.
 
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