Discussion: I'm burning out on beers > 1.065 SG

[MrSnacks]

Generally. I'm just not interested in drinking huge cloying imperial stouts anymore, or double IPAs that get you hammered after a bottle. I mostly brew stouts and IPAs and they end up around 6%, while I've started making ESBs and red ales closer to 4.8% and it's been fantastic to just have drinking beer.

For a while, all I could think about was the latest and greatest imperial stout with 19 different malts or that DIPA clocking in at 300 IBUs. Are my tastes just changing or are we starting to return to a more normal beer culture in the US, less characterized by extremes?

 

[Sailingeric]

I am like you. Both brewing and drinking, I like good middle of the road beer about 5% ABV.. My wife has gotten me a few stouts recently that 9% to 11% ABV and they knocked me on my butt.

 

[blizz81]

Are my tastes just changing or are we starting to return to a more normal beer culture in the US, less characterized by extremes?

I don't think the craft beer world as a whole mirrors your recent change in opinion.

 

[techbrewie]

For me I find that it fluctuates. I'll go through "phases" where im really into IPA's and pale ales, or wheats and berliner weisse, or stouts, porters and doppelbocks etc, etc. I find myself falling in and out of love with styles all the time. given enough time you'll come back to it.

 

[MrSnacks]

I don't think the craft beer world as a whole mirrors your recent change in opinion.

That's demonstrably untrue. Mitch Steele's recent BeerSmith podcast makes it very clear that the "session IPA" category is a runaway sales success.

 

[Weezy]

Welcome to the club! In 6-8 months, your taste buds will return and you'll be delighted by the nuances you'll get out of a well brewed, malty, small beer.

Cheers!

 

[d3track]

It adds more variety to the beer experience, I think by enjoying many different styles you are able to appreciate them better.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Session beers are definitely a trend in craft beer. But Imperial beers are too. Due to the nature of craft beer, I doubt we'll reach a point any time soon where there's one character or trend defining craft beer as a whole. Sours are big, barrel aging is big, hops are still big, big beers are still big, but so are session beers. You get my point.

I like my bigger beers on occasion. But I'm firmly a session beer guy. I brew a couple higher octane beers a year, but it's getting pretty rare for me to go above 1.070. My "stronger" beers are usually in the 1.050 or 1.060s, and my normal beers are usually in the 1.030s and lower 1.040s.

 

[blizz81]

That's demonstrably untrue. Mitch Steele's recent BeerSmith podcast makes it very clear that the "session IPA" category is a runaway sales success.

Sure, the session IPA style has really taken off recently. To me that says nothing about the sales trends or general favor of how people view bigger beers though. If I said "You don't see people signing away their first borne child for a shot at a ticket to Really Not Dark Session Lord Day / whale beers are still primarily big beers", that wouldn't beg a conclusion that session beers were unliked / weren't doing well.


Keep in mind that there have been plenty of session beers outselling any and all craft beer by a large margin before session IPAs became a hit on the market. They're lumped into and referred to by that acronym that is evil around here...

 

[Psylocide]

That's demonstrably untrue. Mitch Steele's recent BeerSmith podcast makes it very clear that the "session IPA" category is a runaway sales success.

That doesn't mean that everyone is burned out on higher ABV beers. "Session IPAs" may just be more approachable for certain people.

Personally, I don't want to brew anything that is much under 5% for the time being... that's just my taste.

I can drink a 4 pack of 10% beer and still feel great... some people don't have that tolerance. Alcohol affects different people in different ways.

If what you're saying is true... why do people drink liquor? Why not just drink a "session IPA?"

 

[MrSnacks]

Session beers are definitely a trend in craft beer. But Imperial beers are too. Due to the nature of craft beer, I doubt we'll reach a point any time soon where there's one character or trend defining craft beer as a whole. Sours are big, barrel aging is big, hops are still big, big beers are still big, but so are session beers. You get my point.

I like my bigger beers on occasion. But I'm firmly a session beer guy. I brew a couple higher octane beers a year, but it's getting pretty rare for me to go above 1.070. My "stronger" beers are usually in the 1.050 or 1.060s, and my normal beers are usually in the 1.030s and lower 1.040s.

I'm very curious about the economics driving the huge beer trend (although can we even call it a trend anymore? I stood in a crazy-ass line for Dark Lord in 2008).

They're expensive to produce but they can really create word of mouth about a brewery, so that must be a significant aspect of it. It can really make the reputation of a brewery. But I also see bottles of 20 dollar bombers of oak aged stout just gathering dust the at the beer store. So who knows.

I'll confess that I didn't even finish the one and only Surly Darkness I bothered to order on tap this fall.

 

[drainbamage]

For me I find that it fluctuates. I'll go through "phases" where im really into IPA's and pale ales, or wheats and berliner weisse, or stouts, porters and doppelbocks etc, etc. I find myself falling in and out of love with styles all the time. given enough time you'll come back to it.

Agreed. I like a lot of "big beers", but eventually I feel like palate burnout sets in and I'll move to lighter (body and ABV-wise) stuff for a while.

I'm kind of at that point right now actually. I've had a fridge full of IIPAs, imperial stouts and big Belgian ales through the winter. Then, a couple weeks ago, I picked up a bottle of Ayinger Jahrhundert. It tasted so good and well-balanced, and only 5.2% ABV. Given another few weeks or months, I'll be back on the big beer bandwagon.

 

[jbb3]

That's demonstrably untrue. Mitch Steele's recent BeerSmith podcast makes it very clear that the "session IPA" category is a runaway sales success.

Not just untrue but demonstrably untrue? LOL...

Well I certainly don't fall inline with your podcast... I mean US culture trends...

 

[bobeer]

I do enjoy a big beer every now and then. I usually brew a big ipa and a big stout 1 time a year. I tend to mostly brew beers in the range of 6-7% but some come out a tad higher here and there.
My tastes change with the season and what I'm doing or in to at the time. Right now I'm on a health kick so im only drinking a few nights a week. Atm i dig a nice pale ale, amber, or ipa. Im not really into "session" style beers. Especially session ipa's. Maybe i just haven't had a good one yet.

 

[MrSnacks]

Not just untrue but demonstrably untrue? LOL...

Well I certainly don't fall inline with your podcast... I mean US culture trends...

1. Capable of being demonstrated or proved: demonstrable truths.

Seems like the right word to me.

And you do realize the Mitch Steele is the brewer at Stone Brewing right? He's the one saying session IPA sales are exploding.

 

[Psylocide]

1. Capable of being demonstrated or proved: demonstrable truths.

Seems like the right word to me.

And you do realize the Mitch Steele is the brewer at Stone Brewing right? He's the one saying session IPA sales are exploding.

Yes... but what does that have to do with US beer culture changing as a whole?

They've just hit on a great selling style, nothing more.

 

[blizz81]

Im not really into "session" style beers. Especially session ipa's. Maybe i just haven't had a good one yet.

To me, there's not much intention to try everyone's session IPA and / or session saisons because they generally end up pretty simple.


The whole idea behind a "session" beer is an extended drinking session where you can have more beers than you would normally indulge in without drinking to excess. I just don't really do that either anymore - and even if I would, drinking a relatively large number of beers (and usually in that setting, with a group of people drinking a large number of beers) at craft beer prices for minimal flavor isn't worth it vs. the hated BMC.


The window in between session and "imperial" beers (4.5-7%?) is a different story. There's plenty to enjoy there, and a good middlegrounds in terms of complexity and drinkability. I still enjoy the complexity of big beers, and since I only put down about 3 beers a sitting max, I can usually make "room" for them.

 

[HausBrauerei_Harvey]

I just tapped a patersbeir which came in raging at 2.9%. It's like water for monks and it's pretty darn tasty. Couldn't hold a candle to the quad I made with its first runnings, but it's nice to have something super light.

 

[Mike_kever_kombi]

My recent kick has been trying to perfect sub 3% ABV beers.

Working on small batches to perfect technique and ingredients.

It is pretty hard to get to below 3.5 and still have some flavor left.

I've been severely under pitching yeast,'to both stress and promote reproduction. So far that seems to have made the biggest impact.

 

[blizz81]

1. Capable of being demonstrated or proved: demonstrable truths.

Seems like the right word to me.

And you do realize the Mitch Steele is the brewer at Stone Brewing right? He's the one saying session IPA sales are exploding.

I mean, again...even if it's Mitch Steele saying it, all that "session IPAs selling extremely well" really proves on its own is "session IPAs selling extremely well".


I would think if anything, session IPA sales would be eating either from other "regular" craft beer sales (the foundational brown/pale/IPA/wheat/etc offerings) or perhaps BMC-type sales vs. eating from big beer sales. Of course, you would likely need data to demonstrate any conclusions either way....

 

[Qhrumphf]

My recent kick has been trying to perfect sub 3% ABV beers.

Working on small batches to perfect technique and ingredients.

It is pretty hard to get to below 3.5 and still have some flavor left.

I've been severely under pitching yeast,'to both stress and promote reproduction. So far that seems to have made the biggest impact.

When it comes to session beers, getting the right grainbill is critical. A fairly high percentage of good quality specialty malts, and a good base malt is the key. I would never, every use plain old US 2 row in a session beer. A good continental Pils malt for German/Belgian session beers, or an English pale ale malt for American or English session beers.

My 2.7% Mild is 32% specialty malts, and my 3% Ordinary Bitter is 31% Specialty Malts. Of course, you can make a MEAN Bitter with 95% Maris Otter and 5% Crystal if you do it right.

 

[Mike_kever_kombi]

When it comes to session beers, getting the right grainbill is critical. A fairly high percentage of good quality specialty malts, and a good base malt is the key. I would never, every use plain old US 2 row in a session beer. A good continental Pils malt for German/Belgian session beers, or an English pale ale malt for American or English session beers.

My 2.7% Mild is 32% specialty malts, and my 3% Ordinary Bitter is 31% Specialty Malts. Of course, you can make a MEAN Bitter with 95% Maris Otter and 5% Crystal if you do it right.

Agreed.

I have an affinity for Belgians, so belgian pils for those styles, combine with controlled fermentation ramp ups.

Marris otter for my Porter and stouts, and munich for my IPA.

Haven't bought 2 row in months.

 

[Psylocide]

I mean, again...even if it's Mitch Steele saying it, all that "session IPAs selling extremely well" really proves on its own is "session IPAs selling extremely well".


I would think if anything, session IPA sales would be eating either from other "regular" craft beer sales (the foundational brown/pale/IPA/wheat/etc offerings) or perhaps BMC-type sales vs. eating from big beer sales. Of course, you would likely need data to demonstrate any conclusions either way....

Pesky data...

 

[riderkb]

My recent kick has been trying to perfect sub 3% ABV beers.

Working on small batches to perfect technique and ingredients.

It is pretty hard to get to below 3.5 and still have some flavor left.

I've been severely under pitching yeast,'to both stress and promote reproduction. So far that seems to have made the biggest impact.

Better start a new thread for this idea. I'm working on a Cream Ale, Light Rye Ale, and Amber Ale that are all close to this ideal.

 

[jbb3]

.....

And you do realize the Mitch Steele is the brewer at Stone Brewing right? He's the one saying session IPA sales are exploding.

Most brewers are "known" for a particular style of beer even though they may put out a full line-up of beers that cover many styles.

When I think of Stone Brewing, I think of..... YEP IPAs.

You don't think Mr. Steele has a vested interest in influencing folks to believe IPAs are taking over the world do you??

I don't think I would take the comments from one brewer as evidence of a cultural trend.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Better start a new thread for this idea. I'm working on a Cream Ale, Light Rye Ale, and Amber Ale that are all close to this ideal.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=378450

Plenty of session beer threads already.

 

[bobeer]

To me, there's not much intention to try everyone's session IPA and / or session saisons because they generally end up pretty simple.


The whole idea behind a "session" beer is an extended drinking session where you can have more beers than you would normally indulge in without drinking to excess. I just don't really do that either anymore - and even if I would, drinking a relatively large number of beers (and usually in that setting, with a group of people drinking a large number of beers) at craft beer prices for minimal flavor isn't worth it vs. the hated BMC.


The window in between session and "imperial" beers (4.5-7%?) is a different story. There's plenty to enjoy there, and a good middlegrounds in terms of complexity and drinkability. I still enjoy the complexity of big beers, and since I only put down about 3 beers a sitting max, I can usually make "room" for them.

Totally agree man!

 

[Cyclman]

I think with the double digit year-over-year expansion of craft brews, it is expanding in all of the above categories. Hophead beers, dark beers, sour beers, session beers, lagers, smoked, high gravity, low gravity, barrel aged, all are expanding as beer drinkers go for the "latest" thing. Except American Light Lagers (thank goodness, we have too much BMC already).

And as variety expands, we will grow the market- just like wine has with Cab, Chardonnay, Merlot, Red Zin, Sauvignon Blanc, etc. etc.

And the world will be a better place for everyone.

 

[beergolf]

I think there will always ne variety in the craft brew market. There are so many people with varying tastes that they can find a brew they like.

I like variety and brew beers from 4% to 12%. There are some days where a couple of low gravity beers sounds good. There are other days when I come home from work and reach for that bomber of an 11% Tripel. AHHHHH.

I do have the luxury of a big pipeline and always have about 10-12 different beers in my beer fridge. That way depending on the mood I can choose what sounds good at that time.

 

[jbaysurfer]

That's demonstrably untrue. Mitch Steele's recent BeerSmith podcast makes it very clear that the "session IPA" category is a runaway sales success.

LOL @ "demonstrably untrue". Here's a demonstration: Whens the last time you saw an 11 hour line for a session IPA? When the gates open at any festival, which beers get the first lines of customers?

 

[Homercidal]

Craft beer is defined by it's differentiation from BMC. Since BMC is pretty much ONE style (or close enough, don't argue!) that leaves PLENTY of other styles to choose from.

I personally enjoy changing it up frequently. I've made imperial this and that and have had success and some of them I've loved to drink quite often. But I also like a light beer now and again, especially right after work when I need a half-glass to wash down a snack before driving off somewhere. They are great sometimes in the evening if the food pairing is right.

But there are plenty of styles in the mid range that appeal. I highly doubt session ales are taking over craft beer sales. Yes they may be on the rise, but that is only natural considering that there are different strokes for different folks. It's a relatively new product. I'm pretty sure sour beers are outselling session beers (beers that didn't already fit neatly into a low alcohol category.)

 

[ArrogantDusty]

I go through a roller coaster. It used to be beer focused and less specific. Lights to darks, heavy to light. Now I am all over the place.

Most of 2014 for me was sucking down light Saisons and that was after a major cognac phase. Lately it has been stouts and ciders aged on oak (woodchuck makes a dynamite one but Edworts Apfelwein aged on oak is even better.

 

[TheBeerGuy]

Thats something I love about homebrew. If I want a DIPA, Cream Ale, Wheat, Siason, Russian Imperial, or that one off that I wanted to be just one Hell of A Wild Ride (my version of a Barley Wine that clocked in at 24.5%) I can brew it and drink it just the way I want. If I want a session IPA I can make that. My tastes change every year or so, so for myself thats great. I agree you'll come back eventually to those hard hitting beers once your palate gets tired of the light and fluffy beers.

 

[MrSnacks]

LOL @ "demonstrably untrue". Here's a demonstration: Whens the last time you saw an 11 hour line for a session IPA? When the gates open at any festival, which beers get the first lines of customers?

Founders All Day IPA is now 27% of their TOTAL production.

http://www.brewbound.com/news/growing-session-sales-pushes-founders-brewing-past-100000-barrels

 

[Mike_kever_kombi]

LOL @ "demonstrably untrue". Here's a demonstration: Whens the last time you saw an 11 hour line for a session IPA? When the gates open at any festival, which beers get the first lines of customers?

There's always a long wait wait at the government cheese line also.

Just sayin

 

[blizz81]

Founders All Day IPA is now 27% of their TOTAL production.

http://www.brewbound.com/news/growing-session-sales-pushes-founders-brewing-past-100000-barrels

From the same page:

But session isn’t the only area of the Founders portfolio that is growing. Higher ABV offerings like Centennial IPA, Dirty Bastard and Breakfast Stout accounted for nearly 53 percent of the company’s total production volume in 2013. Centennial IPA grew at a 16 percent clip while Dirty Bastard and Breakfast Stout grew 32 percent and 42 percent, respectively.


Don't get me wrong though, I'm happy to see any beer sales pick up. More options for the consumer is always better.

 

[MrSnacks]

From the same page:

But session isn’t the only area of the Founders portfolio that is growing. Higher ABV offerings like Centennial IPA, Dirty Bastard and Breakfast Stout accounted for nearly 53 percent of the company’s total production volume in 2013. Centennial IPA grew at a 16 percent clip while Dirty Bastard and Breakfast Stout grew 32 percent and 42 percent, respectively.


Don't get me wrong though, I'm happy to see any beer sales pick up. More options for the consumer is always better.

Breakfast Stout IS a damn fine beer. I'm not surprised those beers are also picking up, but the point is All Day didn't exist until what, 2, 3 years ago and now it's 27% of their total? Clearly from those numbers All Day isn't supplanting sales of higher ABV beers, it's bringing in new customers.

 

[blizz81]

Breakfast Stout IS a damn fine beer. I'm not surprised those beers are also picking up, but the point is All Day didn't exist until what, 2, 3 years ago and now it's 27% of their total? Clearly from those numbers All Day isn't supplanting sales of higher ABV beers, it's bringing in new customers.

True, true. I'm glad it's picking up a market even if I might not be the one spending $ on that type of beer (yet / at this point).

 

[1977Brewer]

All Day IPA is delicious. Two pennies.

 

[Zepth]

I notice a similar phase shift myself. Who here didn't start homebrewing and think "This yeast can go how high %?" We've all been there, and trying to make something strong that isn't rocket fuel is often in the top 5 reasons to start homebrewing. I have failed 3 strong batches at this point, none warranting Drain-Pour Ale as of yet. 1 underattenuate, 1 alright but nothing special, and 1 Black IPA that should have been a double.

On the topic of the last coming in at 7.5% it just wasn't quite where I wanted it to finish at. Somewhat my own fault, I have this terrible habit of not taking a pre-boil gravity because it's just too easy to fire the element as soon as wort covers it and by the time the tun is done draining I'm most of the way to a boil. My fault, I could have boiled down farther or scrounged up some extract to make up the difference. Process faults aside and back to topic it's still great. Just didn't hit the mark I was aiming at. Yet my father when hearing that it was 7.5% asked again "Damn son, why do you always make these heavy hitters?" despite the fact he rather enjoyed it.

I've always tried to keep a respectable variety in stock. Something for everyone who claims to be a beer drinker anyways. Even for a few friends SWMBO keep a Cent. Blonde or Cali Common around. I could go for these any day of the week, but try not to have the keg kick the day before company comes over. We've all been there. Part of the variety will inevitably contain "strong for the BMCers," as my opinion is that there is no good reason to entirely boycott an entire style of beer simply because it's high %. Will there be a time where I have all 4 taps with 10+% brews? I certainly hope not.

Part of why I've stopped aiming high % must be related to those few brews that didn't turn out quite like I wanted. Learned something each time though, so not a total waste. Wouldn't go so far as to say that disappointment ruined the whole ordeal for me, or else I wouldn't have a 1.084 Dubbel in the other room at the 3 week mark. I'm still searching for that great imperial that I can create, but 7/8 of my pours from the tap are below 1.060 SG.