Did not boil AG yeast starter

[bamer101]

I'm brewing an oktoberfest this weekend, and have never pitched a yeast starter before. This will also be my first lager. Realizing that I needed to pitch a big starter last night, and that I was running out of time if I was going to brew by saturday, I panicked and attempted to make an AG starter using 0.5 lbs of excess munich pilsner grain and two pints of water. Being my first yeast starter I also didn't think to take an OG of the starter wort. I mashed by putting the grain in a hop bag and dumping that in a pot filled with strike water and set it on a stove top burner set to simmer. I monitored the temp by removing the pot when it exceeded 155 and put it back on when it dipped below 140. I did this for an hour. I realize this is all very crude but I had no extract and was in a race against time. Here is where my concern lies....I DID NOT BOIL MY WORT AT ALL. I pitched two vials of yeast into two separate mason jars with loosely fastened lids and set my freezer to 50. Will I be able to use this yeast this Saturday, or is the risk of contamination too high? I have generic ale yeast that I can use. If thats the case will it work with my grain bill of pilsner, munich, vienna, and caramunich? Maybe an Irish red. I have a vsriety of hops that may work, but I'd like to do the lager if I could. Oh also the vials leaked quite a bit when I pitched, and I stupidly put some starsan into one vial to get a large clump of yeast out *palm to forehead*

 

[jtejedor]

Did you cool the wort down before you pitched yeast? Also how much wort did you use to make the starter? Its not ideal but I think getting it up to 150 should kill most things. Also leaving the starter to ferment at 50 degrees is not good for a starter, even with lager yeast. You want the yeast to grow and at 50 degrees that will take quite a while. You should also always give yourself enough time to cold crash the starter to decant the starter beer.

 

[indigi]

I'd just use the ale yeast and do the lager another time. At least you'll know you have enough, it won't be infected (some types of pedio, lacto, and some spoilage organisms can survive at ~160* and will reproduce in your starter), and you won't ruin a batch or have subpar, crappy beer. Your wort was probably kinda high in gravity unless you only got ~50% efficiency, too. Patience is key to this hobby, and part of that is not winging a poorly conceived starter attempt at the last minute

I've done dumber things, so don't think this is me judging you.

 

[Skyforger]

That water to grain ratio is roughly correct. The OG, with reasonable efficiency, would be about right or somewhat high. But the size of the starter is much too low. You would need a starter of nearly three times that size for a beer with OG 1050 or so. Add that to the small, but real, infection risk and I would probably advise not using this starter at the moment. You could let them sit for a while at room temp, and see if they show any signs of spoilage. That way, if it doesn't go 'off,' you can use the yeast at some later date.

 

[indigi]

That's a good idea, Skyforger, and could save the money spent on the yeast. I'd let it go for at least a month at room temperature. It's cooler out now and spoilage bacteria like lacto and pedio grow best and are most active in the 80s-90s F, so it could be a while before there are any obvious flavor or aroma effects.

 

[bamer101]

first of all, thanks all for the speedy replies. I've been a lurker for a few months, and i hope to one day spread the knowledge that i absorb from you all. enough flattery!

Did you cool the wort down before you pitched yeast? Also how much wort did you use to make the starter? Its not ideal but I think getting it up to 150 should kill most things. Also leaving the starter to ferment at 50 degrees is not good for a starter, even with lager yeast. You want the yeast to grow and at 50 degrees that will take quite a while. You should also always give yourself enough time to cold crash the starter to decant the starter beer.

jtejedor, I cooled the wort to 50 degrees within a few minutes. I was under the impression that you wanted to build a starter in the range that you intended to ferment your lager. After reading a few responses I have since taken the mason jars out of the freezer and put them in the pantry. I live in Orange County, California so the highs are 62 and the lows are 42 this time of year. I'm spoiled, I know.

I'd just use the ale yeast and do the lager another time. At least you'll know you have enough, it won't be infected (some types of pedio, lacto, and some spoilage organisms can survive at ~160* and will reproduce in your starter), and you won't ruin a batch or have subpar, crappy beer. Your wort was probably kinda high in gravity unless you only got ~50% efficiency, too. Patience is key to this hobby, and part of that is not winging a poorly conceived starter attempt at the last minute

I've done dumber things, so don't think this is me judging you.

No offense taken indigi! So you're telling me that this starter is probably safe to use this weekend??

That water to grain ratio is roughly correct. The OG, with reasonable efficiency, would be about right or somewhat high. But the size of the starter is much too low. You would need a starter of nearly three times that size for a beer with OG 1050 or so. Add that to the small, but real, infection risk and I would probably advise not using this starter at the moment. You could let them sit for a while at room temp, and see if they show any signs of spoilage. That way, if it doesn't go 'off,' you can use the yeast at some later date.

Skyforger, I'm assuming my efficiency was pretty low as I mashed in a small pot with a glass lid. What do you mean by go "off"? If I were to go the Ale route, do you have any recommended recipes using the following grain bill:

-1lb munich malt
-8lb vienna malt
-1lb Caramunich malt
-0.5lb crystal 75

I took 0.5lb to use for my starter. I don't have any fancy software to develop recipes or calculate brewing methods, so I'm kind of in the dark ages over here. Pad, pencil, and calculator is all I've been using. I've done 4 ales so far, and they've been okay. I dove straight into AG. I think my water chemistry, among other factors, might have a lot to do with my mediocre results.

 

[Shockerengr]

I'd avoid using the starter.

There IS lactobaccilus on nearly all grain. while 155 will probably have killed most of it, you're only on the lower end of the range that will start to kill bacteria. In fact, one of the tricks for making a sour beer without having to use the bacteria post-boil is to toss a little extra grain into the mash after mashing with the temps in the 130s/140s and letting it sit for a day. (usually after going through the mashout to stop conversion)