Bierliebhaber
Well-Known Member
Not sure if anyone has mentioned it yet, but lactose sugar is non-fermentable. It's a good way to back sweeten and no need to add anything to retard yeast. I have used it on lambics with good results.
DFH 120 minute clone
- Thread starter scottland
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Bierliebhaber
Well-Known Member
Yep, LHBS carries it. I've only used it in fruit lambics that are extremely tart before back sweetening, so it's hard to say how much you would need for this application. Lactose is not an overpowering sweetener by any means. It has a very neutral flavor, IMHO. If you end up needing to back sweeten, I would guess less than a pound. I don't think it would take much to tip the balance and like others have said, time will mellow the hops and the malt sweetness will come through much more as the flavors mature. I think you would still be better off bulk aging to see how it turns out over time.
Finally that time of the year for me to brew 120 again and I've got pretty much all my ingredients together, the only thing holding me back from brewing this weekend in oppose to next is whether or not I'll get my 099 in time. As most of us here have discussed, the original recipe is sweet, Scottland you and I have discussed a couple times how we're going to alter our next 120 batches, I hammered out my details last night and here's where I'm going:
10# 2-row + 0.5# Crystal 20 (standard mash, not the profiled mash)
3# Light DME
120min full boil.
3oz Simcoe (split across 40 addtions, 1 every 3 minutes)
3oz Centennial (split across 40 addtions, 1 every 3 minutes)
3oz Cascade (split across 40 addtions, 1 every 3 minutes)
Wyeast 1056 w/ starter
WLP099 w/ starter
6# Dextrose split into 12 8oz additions
2oz Simcoe DH
1oz Centennial DH
1oz Cascade DH
OG ESTIMATE: 1.136
TARGET FG: 1.015 or lower
Estimated ABV at 1.015: 16.1%
*Hop amount is doubled - in doing so subbed the Warrior for a less acidic hop
*Amarillo and Warrior subbed with Centennial and Cascade (the warrior by choice, the Amarillo due to availability)
*Actual grain / extract makes up 70% of total fermentables in oppose to the original 60%
*Total sugar amount is cut back to tame ABV / control FG and sweetness
*DH amount increased by 33% of original recipe
That's it - That's this years version of 120IIPA for my house. If it finishes lower that 1.015 so be it, 1.010 would put it right at 17% and I'm good with that. I feel confident this is going to round out flavors that I thought missed in my first go at it, it falls to matter of opinion by individual taste I suppose. The main drive behind this year for me was more hops, less alcohol - I played by the book once, this year it's time to fit it to my own tastes.
Honestly after brewing up this hop bomb above, next year will probably be the balance best of both worlds. I'll take pictures as always, 120 eye candy is always good times.
**Looks like it will either be Sunday this weekend or Saturday the next. My LHBS that supplied my yeast last time for this just told me they have switched over to selling and ordering WYeast only. I ordered what I needed from Northern Brewer with 2 day shipping, we'll see....
RDWHAHBAWFYGDY (relax, don't worry, have a home brew, and wait for your god **** yeast)
10# 2-row + 0.5# Crystal 20 (standard mash, not the profiled mash)
3# Light DME
120min full boil.
3oz Simcoe (split across 40 addtions, 1 every 3 minutes)
3oz Centennial (split across 40 addtions, 1 every 3 minutes)
3oz Cascade (split across 40 addtions, 1 every 3 minutes)
Wyeast 1056 w/ starter
WLP099 w/ starter
6# Dextrose split into 12 8oz additions
2oz Simcoe DH
1oz Centennial DH
1oz Cascade DH
OG ESTIMATE: 1.136
TARGET FG: 1.015 or lower
Estimated ABV at 1.015: 16.1%
*Hop amount is doubled - in doing so subbed the Warrior for a less acidic hop
*Amarillo and Warrior subbed with Centennial and Cascade (the warrior by choice, the Amarillo due to availability)
*Actual grain / extract makes up 70% of total fermentables in oppose to the original 60%
*Total sugar amount is cut back to tame ABV / control FG and sweetness
*DH amount increased by 33% of original recipe
That's it - That's this years version of 120IIPA for my house. If it finishes lower that 1.015 so be it, 1.010 would put it right at 17% and I'm good with that. I feel confident this is going to round out flavors that I thought missed in my first go at it, it falls to matter of opinion by individual taste I suppose. The main drive behind this year for me was more hops, less alcohol - I played by the book once, this year it's time to fit it to my own tastes.
Honestly after brewing up this hop bomb above, next year will probably be the balance best of both worlds. I'll take pictures as always, 120 eye candy is always good times.
**Looks like it will either be Sunday this weekend or Saturday the next. My LHBS that supplied my yeast last time for this just told me they have switched over to selling and ordering WYeast only. I ordered what I needed from Northern Brewer with 2 day shipping, we'll see....
RDWHAHBAWFYGDY (relax, don't worry, have a home brew, and wait for your god **** yeast)
![Craft A Brew - Safale S-04 Dry Yeast - Fermentis - English Ale Dry Yeast - For English and American Ales and Hard Apple Ciders - Ingredients for Home Brewing - Beer Making Supplies - [1 Pack]](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/41fVGNh6JfL._SL500_.jpg)
kickrjason
Well-Known Member
I am interested in trying one of these myself. What is your technique for the multiple hop additions? I was thinking Dixie bathroom paper cups.
beerman0001
Well-Known Member
Those work great.
+1 with Beerman, they work great
(I post that picture around a lot but man it's my favorite! I just need your camera Scott so it doesn't look so blurry
)On my brew, absolutely I'll share the play by play here, probably will propose a couple more bottle swaps early spring. I'm feeling giddy right now about brewing this, it's been a long time since I've been amped to make a brew.
Side note, I've ordered supplies from Northern Brewer twice now and you just can not beat their customer service. First time they sent me 3lbs blueberry puree by mistake (I ordered 3lbs apricot for my DFH Aprihop clone), I offered to ship back the blueberry but they told me to keep it then rushed me the apricot free of charge. This time I've ordered my stuff yesterday with 2 day shipping, I've already been sent my confirmation, reciept, tracking number, update that it has shipped, and a requested ETA update from Fed Ex placed by NB. That's just awesome, with my son on the way here in a couple months I'm getting ready to make a large bulk purchase of DME, grains and hops to keep me brewing through the next year, I think they're going to get my business on it.
kickrjason
Well-Known Member
Jsmith82 said:
I also have had AMAZING customer service with NB. I ordered a large bottle of starsan and it broke in shipping. I sent them a pic when it arrived and I ha a replacement on my doorstep in two days.
When I am shopping I go to NB first. On the rare occasion they don't have what I'm looking for then I shop around.
Brad1775
Well-Known Member
1.050 today, 1.058 5 days ago. fermentation is at 43 days so far.
Yeast arrived this morning, tomorrow is looking like the day.
Brad thats pretty high man, still going though. Where do you have the alcohol calculated at right now? I'm fearing if that gravity doesn't come down further it may be ridiculously sweet..
Brad thats pretty high man, still going though. Where do you have the alcohol calculated at right now? I'm fearing if that gravity doesn't come down further it may be ridiculously sweet..
Brad1775
Well-Known Member
its still coming down.... still bubbling away and as I saw, slowly going down. Yeah, it's sweet as heck now. I could actually use it for pancake syrup. oh my god. Suddenly I don't care if it goes down.... 5 gallons of sweeeet sweeeet breakfast syrup. I'm making pancakes right now.
Thanks for posting the process of cloning this infamously big beer.
I would want to try this in the future-seems like a good test of how patient you can be with a complicated, lengthly homebrewing process.
I would want to try this in the future-seems like a good test of how patient you can be with a complicated, lengthly homebrewing process.
Perfect mash, about an hour into the boil, thanks to your blog Scott I've got a loaf of bread rising made with the spent grains - wonderful idea! 3 lbs bbq beef in the crockpot that will accompany the bread tonight, AND I broke out one of my last 2 Oaked Imperial RyePAs brewed earlier last year.
100% perfect brewday, cheers guys!
100% perfect brewday, cheers guys!
Mashed out (great BHE):
A homebrew while you homebrew (Sunday IPA):
Oaked Imperial Glacier RyePA (brewed early 2011) - this was a treat:
Random pic, 6 to go:
Last up, my loaf of mashed grain bread (which was an awesome plate for the bbq beef we had simmering all day):
So my final stats last night before I pitched my yeast:
OG before sugar: goal was 1.083, 1.095 was achieved however my boil off ratio was off by 1/2 a gallon so I ended up with 4.5 in the end and higher gravity. That said, same amounts for a 4.5gal batch would have landed my OG at 1.093 therefore I pulled in roughly 76-77% efficiency which works well for me. At this point if I get all sugar into the beer and it were to actually go all the way down to 1.010, we're looking at the 18% range. A beast, but still not as much as last year. Higher than I wanted but meh, it is the 120 clone
Hard work is done, now time to feed the monster.
Also, I've been contemplating how I'm going to dry hop this beer. I was thinking 1oz of Cascade at 3weeks, 1oz Simcoe at 4weeks, rack over at week 5 into secondary on top of 2oz Centennial then let it sit and settle out. Thoughts?
A homebrew while you homebrew (Sunday IPA):
Oaked Imperial Glacier RyePA (brewed early 2011) - this was a treat:
Random pic, 6 to go:
Last up, my loaf of mashed grain bread (which was an awesome plate for the bbq beef we had simmering all day):
So my final stats last night before I pitched my yeast:
OG before sugar: goal was 1.083, 1.095 was achieved however my boil off ratio was off by 1/2 a gallon so I ended up with 4.5 in the end and higher gravity. That said, same amounts for a 4.5gal batch would have landed my OG at 1.093 therefore I pulled in roughly 76-77% efficiency which works well for me. At this point if I get all sugar into the beer and it were to actually go all the way down to 1.010, we're looking at the 18% range. A beast, but still not as much as last year. Higher than I wanted but meh, it is the 120 clone
Hard work is done, now time to feed the monster.
Also, I've been contemplating how I'm going to dry hop this beer. I was thinking 1oz of Cascade at 3weeks, 1oz Simcoe at 4weeks, rack over at week 5 into secondary on top of 2oz Centennial then let it sit and settle out. Thoughts?
scottland
Well-Known Member
Jsmith, you've caused me to get the itch back. I definitely have the hops to do my Citra/Amarillo/Simcoe version. I'm thinking I'll brew it in July this year so my batches will be one year apart. Now I just need to decide if I want to use hop extract to bitter, or stick with warrior.
Scratch it!Citra - Jealosy. I wish I could find some. One day Citra and I will meet and something amazing will come from it.
Curious, do you think you would even need an additional bittering hop, or extract addition? Using Citra for Warrior, replacing a 15% with a 12% then doubling the hop amounts?
I went ahead and fed the monster this morning, 8oz sugar down, 5.5# to go. The beer had a massive krausen head on it, at least 6 inches tall in the bucket - it's close to the lid. :rockin: Pretty sure tonight after work I'm going to get my second starter going then feed it tomorrow night with a sugar addition, that would be 2# sugar in when the beer gets the 009, the last 4 don't stand a chance.
Damn I'm excited, I can't wait to drink some of this. Haven't been this amped up about brewing in a long time, it feels good.
scottland
Well-Known Member
Ya, I really want this to drink like an Imperial IPA rather than something that's closer to a barleywine. I'm literally thinking about using 6oz Warrior just to bitter with from 90min-45min, then continuously hop 3.5oz ea Simcoe, Amarillo, and Citra from 30min to 0. That'll be 16.5oz of hops in the boil, and then I'll dry hop with 9oz.
We'll see. I'm still not sold on cooking 6oz of warrior for 90 minutes, so I'm really considering hop extract in it's place.
EDIT: I did the math on the Hop extract. Northern brewer sells those Hop-Shot syringes, which are co2 extract hop resins (non-isomerized). The problem is, they only have some generic calculations. 5ml hop-shot = 50IBU in a typical gravity beer.
Well that doesn't help me much for a beer around 1.130. So I checked the Hop Union website. Ahhhhh formulas! Hop extract is ~ 1g/ml, so a 5ml syringe has 5g of extract. that 5g of extract is about 2.75g of AA (50-60%). Now we're talking.
That means one hop syringe has the equivalent of 1oz of a 10% AA hop. I'm looking for 100AAU worth of bittering hop, so I'd need 10 syringes! That's like $20 just in hop extract.
I'm thinking about maybe doing half/half. 3oz warrior, 25ml hop extract. We'll see. I know that seems like an obscene about of bittering, but it only calcs out to around 190IBU. Which for a beer like this is fine.
scottland
Well-Known Member
Oh that sounds great!
How about 30 additions in 30 minutes? Eh? Eh?
Haha, you have no idea how lazy I am. I was just thinking 4.5oz at 15min and 6oz at 0min. Done! hahaha
But in the spirit of the beer I might do 7 additions, one every 5 min from 30-0. We'll see.
I do like the idea of the hop extract though. That would only be 10.5oz of hops boiled for 15min max rather than 16.5oz in the boil with 6oz boiled for 90min. Should cut down on the vegetal note.
Very true - Not going to lie, my wort felt swampy by the end of the boil, and the stirring consistency was very noticeably different after 2 hours. I started prepping to filter while pouring into the bucket but then I got lazy and said F it, poured it all in. Swamp water. The extract shot is a great idea. Bursting is great as well, my favorite way to brew - almost all IPAs I've done get an ounce at 60, the rest goes in <=15min.
Should we take bets to see if you can make it to July? :cross:
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