DFH 120 minute clone

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scottland

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Well, my attempt at the Dogfish 120 IPA starts tonight with a starter. I'm making a few changes from the recipe that Sean Paxton put out based on what I think will be better/more accurate. I talked about most of this in smuth10's thread (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/dogfish-head-120-min-ipa-clone-224348/). To quickly recap: Paxton used 9oz of hops in the boil for a 10gal batch. That's 4.5oz hops for a 5 gallon batch. I have that much hop in my 1.055 pale ale. This being a 1.170 beer or so, I feel like it needs WAYYYY more hops than that. So I'm using 2-3 times as much as Paxton did. I'm also not going to dry hop during active fermentation; just seems like a waste of hops to me. I'm going to dry hop once this beer is in the secondary. Final change is WLP007 instead of US-05 for the initial ferment. DFH uses something EXTREMELY similar, if not WLP007, for their 60min and 90min. I figure why not use it for this beer. WLP007 attenuates very well, and is known form attenuating big beers well.

My recipe is:

17lbs 2-row
1lb Victory (1.25lbs of Amber would be closer)
4oz Crystal 60 (get rid of this if you use amber malt)
5oz Amarillo
4oz Simcoe
3oz Warrior All hops added continuously throughout the boil.
I might also throw in 4oz Cascade at 0min just for the hell of it(haven't decided yet).
Target OG (pre-sugar): 1.100 or so
WLP007 until the gravity drops under 1.020, then WLP099 Super High Gravity
10lbs dextrose added slowly once the WLP099 is added (6oz doses).
Dry hopped with 3oz each Simcoe and Amarillo in a secondary. (1oz Simcoe & 1oz Amarillo added once a week for 3 weeks)

There are a couple big 'hurdles' on this batch for me.

A. I don't have an oxygen setup. My last couple batches i've been adding a tiny, tiny drop of olive oil to my starters, and it's seemed to work great. New Belguim did some great research with some University in Belguim, and it seems like olive oil can replace the role of oxygen pretty well. Obviously 120min is on the ragged edge of yeast performance, so we'll see. There's a good thread about this here if anyone is interested (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/using-olive-oil-instead-oxygen-47872/). I'll be using yeast nutrient and energizer as well.

B. My yeast vials of WLP007 and WLP099 are old. My LHBS hasn't had a new shipment from White Labs in awhile, so my 'use by date' is Aug 06, which puts the production date at Apr 06, which means I'm around 17% viability right now. So i'm going to get a small 500ml starter of the WLP007 going tonight on the stir plate, then step it up to 6 liters tomorrow. Hopefully I should have around 500-600 billion cells by Saturday when I brew.

C. I built a new RIMS system about 2-3 weeks ago, and it has only brewed two batches so far. Those batches went well and the PID held mash temps to the degree, but I'm hesistent to use anything 'new' on a batch this expensive. I haven't made anything high-gravity with the RIMS yet, and fermentability of the wort is the primary concern with this beer(fingers crossed).

D. I don't have a conical, so I'll be fermenting this in a plastic bucket, like others have. I'm sure i'll get very tired of snapping the lid on and off by the time this batch is done.

I'll document this batch heavily with pictures. I figure it will be fun, and help anyone else that wants to tackle an IPA of this magnatude. Smuth10's thread was extremely helpful to go along with brewing network podcast, so I thought i'd contribute what I can from my batch. Smuth10 got his gravity down to 1.028 which is VERY encouraging. Obviously the biggest fear with this batch is what we all saw on brewmasters, it might finish high and taste like cough syrup. That's about it, pictures to follow tonight =)

http://bertusbrewery.blogspot.com/
 
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scottland

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I made an 800ml starter tonight, and it's spinning away nicely on the stir plate. This will get pitched into a 6liter starter tomorrow.

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scottland

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Today I made a 6 liter starter, and pitched the decanted 800ml starter into it. I didn't have anything bigger than a 1 gallon growler, but it turns out a fermenter bucket sits just fine on my stir plate. Who would have thought my little 1.5" stir bar would work just fine in a 6.5 gallon bucket.

If you look closely in the last picture you can see the fluid line just below the 2gal marking. Definitely the biggest starter i've ever made. Hopefully it's fermented out by tomorrow so I can crash it in time for brew day on Saturday.

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scottland

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Wow, what a brew day. One of those days where everything that could go wrong did.

Everything started off fine, I mashed in for a protein rest at 122*, then started to slowly ramp up to 148*. I was mashing at 1.25 qt/lb in the hopes of having more water to sparge with(1.5 normally)......big mistake.

Sparge stuck, and in a matter of 5 seconds, scorched the wort. 20lbs of grain down the drain. So i ran to the LHBS, and bought a new batch of grain. Took the heater element out of the tube, scrubbed the hell out of it to get the burnt sugars off. Cycled super hot oxyclean, and then water through the system and started over.

Thankfully the second mash and sparge went smooth. I sparged very, very slowly and collected about 7 gallons at 1.070.

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scottland

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Word to the wise, don't brew a beer this labor intensive when it's 105* and humid outside. It was a hot, sweaty day.

So I started the boil which went smooth up to the 1hr mark when a thunderstorm moved in. Tons of wind and a little rain, but it thankfully passed. I finally got down to the end of the boil and kicked on the chiller. I've started using my pump to re-circulate ice water once I get the wort down to 100*. That is definitely the way to go here in AZ where the ground water is like 95*.

The last challenge was separating 16oz of hops from the wort. You can tell from the picture below the shear about of vegetable mater in this beer. A sanitized paint strainer bag did a decent job, and I ended up with ~5 gallons at 1.098-1.099.

I then decanted my giant 6liter starter of WLP007 and pitched that(approx 1/2gallon of slurry). It took off within a couple hours, and is bubbling away nicely.

Next up is getting a 800ml starter of WLP099 going, and then stepping that up to 6liters. I'll pitch that around day 4, and start the dextrose additions. I've got 9lbs of dextrose, so assuming the yeast are willing to eat all the sugar, my potential OG is 1.170. And assuming my FG can get between 1.025-1.040 that puts the ABV in the 17.6-19.2% range. Perfect!!

More to follow....

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Rivenin

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friggin wicked! looks like you had fun though :)

the picture with the chiller kinda grosses me out, but at the ssame time makes me smile... i still NEED to try this beer
 
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scottland

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Wow! It's only been 18 hours since I pitched the yeast, and there's already serious blow off. There was lots of head space in the fermenter and it's fermenting at 64*, so i'm very surprised to see this active of a ferment.

Now I'm getting the starter prepared for the WLP099. I didn't think I would have to add it in the next couple days, but at this rate, the WLP007 will be fermented out soon.

Super High Gravity yeast just sounds cool, doesn't it? lol

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scottland

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Had to switch to a blow off valve, this ferment is going nuts. I usually don't have issues with blow off at the temps I ferment at, but wow, this one is going crazy
 
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scottland

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The 700ml starter of WLP099 got moving after around 8 hours. I whipped up a bigger starter, 3 liters, and dumped the 700ml starter into that. It's spinning away. Basically, as soon as that ferments out and I can cold crash it, it gets pitched into the main batch (1-2 days)

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scottland

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@shafferpilot: The fun just started, it's 2 days into the ferment.

The WLP099 starter is finished, I'm crashing that right now, it should be ready to pitch tonight. The gravity of the main batch is down to 1.045 or so. I'll probably start the sugar additions tomorrow morning.

Speaking of sugar additions, here's what 9lbs of dextrose looks like in 6oz bags. And the 6oz of hops i'll be dry hopping with.

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scottland

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Well the WLP099 starter is taking it's sweet time. I let it fully ferment out last night, and I'll cold crash it tonight, and hopefully get some flocculation.

The first sugar addition started last night, I didn't want my WLP007 to get too lazy in the mean time. More sugar gets added at lunch today, and hopefully the WLP099 by tomorrow morning/afternoon.
 
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scottland

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Decanted the WLP099 starter and pitched it with the 3rd dose of sugar tonight. We're up to 1.108 OG now.
 
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scottland

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When you get finished would it be possible to buy a sample for tasting purposes.
If I can actually find one. When it was in stock a couple months ago, it sold out in like 2-3 hours across town. It was crazy.
 
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scottland

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Added another bag of sugar, stirred up the primary really well (the WLP007 is forming a thick cake at the bottom) and took a gravity reading. I also bumped the temp up to 66*

Currently at 1.025, and with the latest sugar addition, that brings the current OG to 1.111. 11.5% ABV at the moment, only 6.5% to go! The good news is my gravity is currently where I want it to finish, so if I can just keep it around 1.025, i'll know when to stop adding sugar. Each sugar baggie adds 2.85 gravity points, so it's not a big deal if I add one too many.

Here's a pic of the fermenter; with all the krausen and hops stuck everywhere it looks like something out of the movie Alien.

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Reno_eNVy

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Suh-WEEEEEEEET!

That is one hot mess you have there. Looks like that one black lagoon that creatures are supposed to come from.
 
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scottland

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Down to 1.020 tonight. I added a double dose of sugar since the yeasties were definitely hungry. Also threw 2tsp of yeast energizer. New OG: 1.118, FG: 1.026, current ABV: 12.1%
 

bmick

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so if I can just keep it around 1.025, i'll know when to stop adding sugar. Each sugar baggie adds 2.85 gravity points, so it's not a big deal if I add one too many.
Just as a heads up, continuing to add sugar typically dries beers out, dropping your FG as well as bumping up your OG. I did a World Wide Stout style Imperial back in Feb, and after adding sugar every day for about 10 days after primary fermentation, I wound up down at 1.010 FG. Very dry for a beer that big, still coming into its own in the bottles. Should be great around Xmas.
 
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scottland

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Just as a heads up, continuing to add sugar typically dries beers out, dropping your FG as well as bumping up your OG. I did a World Wide Stout style Imperial back in Feb, and after adding sugar every day for about 10 days after primary fermentation, I wound up down at 1.010 FG. Very dry for a beer that big, still coming into its own in the bottles. Should be great around Xmas.
That's very, very true, but most people that brew this have a problem getting their yeast to attenuate that much. From 1.170 to 1.010 is like 94% attenuation, I don't think i'll quite get that high =). If it does stay dry, i'll just keep feeding it sugar until the yeast crap out, then add a little more sugar to back sweeten.

Did you use any champagne yeast in your WWS clone?
 

bmick

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I actually used a WLP013 London Ale Yeast/WLP099 High Gravity Combo with a huge starter initially, then re-pitched another smaller starter of WLP099 with the first sugar additions, then used champagne yeast to bottle, since the yeast was beat up pretty badly and had bulk aged for 3 months. Popped a bottle (just for testing, of course) about a month later that had carbed up pretty well, but the beer was still very young tasting.
 
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scottland

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What was your OG, and how much dextrose did you add(i'm curious)?
 

bmick

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This would require going back to the notes, but I'm pretty sure the O.G. (before additions) was 1.102. The sugars I added were actually on a schedule of brown sugar, molasses sugar, and dextrose, totaling I think about 20 oz.. After accounting for the additional O.G. points that gave me an ABV of 14.5%, which is around where I wanted it, shy of the 18% that the actual WWS is.
 
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scottland

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Ah, that makes sense why yours was drier. I'm adding 10lbs (160oz) of dextrose to a 1.100 beer, so it will definitely end up sweeter.

I'd be curious what your WWS recipe was, do you mind PMing it to me? I'm thinking about doing a clone of it pending how my 120min turns out.
 

lastsecondapex

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Looks great. I've considered trying this, but will wait til I can do 10 gallons in a conical. I cracked a DFH 120 bottled in April 2008 on Sunday and, surprisingly, it was still hoppy. I agree with the additional bittering hops over Paxton's recipe. I will be subscribing to find out how this turns out.
 
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scottland

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The yeast tore through the double dose of sugar. Down to 1.018 today. I gave them another double dose today.
Current gravities: OG:1.124, SG: 1.024, ABV: 13.2%
 
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scottland

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Ya, I did. It seems to be working so far, but I don't want to jinx myself.

Process: yeast normally use oxygen to break unsaturated fatty acids into mono saturated fatty acids. They use these fatty acids to build cell walls when they reproduce; this is a good thing. The idea was, what happens if you simply give the yeast the monosaturated fatty acids to start with. New Belgium brewery did a big research thing on it, and found it works.

The problem is the amount. They use 300ml of olive olive for 4,500L of yeast. That translates to .013ml of olive oil for a typical 5gal batch. Hard to measure. A medical dropper drops .051ml. So I try to use a little less than a drop of olive oil. I add that to the yeast in my starter.

I haven't added oxygen to this beer at any stage, and the only aeration I've done was pouring my starters to and fro, pouring the wort into the fermenter, and stirring the primary daily with the sugar additions. The yeast seem healthy, but Ive definitely got my fingers crossed
 

lastsecondapex

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Cool, seems crazy that 1 drop could even dissipate enough in a starter.to positively affect all yeast. It'd be a great solution for avoiding the need for an o2 setup though.
 

bmick

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Ah, that makes sense why yours was drier. I'm adding 10lbs (160oz) of dextrose to a 1.100 beer, so it will definitely end up sweeter.

I'd be curious what your WWS recipe was, do you mind PMing it to me? I'm thinking about doing a clone of it pending how my 120min turns out.
I'll look into it when I get a chance, although honestly after that initial taste this isn't so much a clone as in the same style, next year when it gets brewed again there will be some serious changes.
 
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scottland

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This beer is definitely an extreme test of it. White Labs states WLP099 can be difficult to use, and they state in needs heavy aeration, and recommend aerating 4 times as much as normal during the first 5 days of fermentation.

We'll see how far the olive oil fed yeast goes. It's bubbling about once every 1-2 seconds after the 12oz of sugar I added at lunch today.
 

Jsmith82

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Congrats on brewing the beast. It's labor intensive and a 1 month marriage to a moody back-talking beer but in the end, when you have your first cold snifter and all of your work and efforts and time are sitting in front of you via 12oz form, it by far is very worth it. I only have 2 bottles left from my 120 clone, I wish I would have brewed more. The only thing I would have changed is the hops, definitely needs more all around IMO.

Best of luck climbing the ABV ladder and keeping your yeast hungry and live, you seem to have a really great pace going.

*subscribed*
 
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scottland

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Hey Jsmith, I remember you posting your results from Smuth10's thread. What do you think is a good final gravity for this beer to finish at? I tasted a sample of the 13.2% 1.018 beer today, and it was very dry. I was thinking 1.025-1.030 would be a good spot to finish in, do you think it needs higher?
 
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