Decoction Mash Video

[mrk305]

Excellent videos! I almost wish I hadn't watched it though. I was just getting happy with my process! Thanks for posting it!

 

[rurounikitsune]

Just what I needed! Now I can start planning my Doppelbock.

 

[Kaiser]

I just watched the videos and read this http://www.strandbrewers.org/techinfo/decoct1.htm

This is basically like most of the other instructions I found so far. They also rely on precisely calculating the decoction volume, which will cause most of the headache when you miss your sacc rest temp.

The only thing I never really picked up was what this does to the finished product vs infusion mashing? At the end there he had all the protein built up on top, assuming that doesn't make it to the beer, does head retention suffer (I suspect not)?
Maltier profile, higher FG?

There is a lot of debate about this. I have done many decocted and non-decocted batches so far and noticed for myself, that the differences must be subtle. I still have to make a good side by side to see for myself what a decoction tastes like. The FG should actually be lower for decocted beers as the beta amylase will have more starch ends (since some of the starch has been converted to dextines) to work on. But that can be compensated for with a higher sacc rest temp.

Just wondering what does the thinner mash provided? The only reason I did such a thick part of the decoction was I think it was BYO interview a German Brewery and brew master was saying part of not extracting tannins was due in part to the high sugar content of the decoction along with mash PH

There is tannin extraction happening. Just not as excessive as it would be when the pH raises significantly. Thinner mashes allow for thinner decoctions as well as for less tannin extraction in the over-all process as you will be using less sparge water.

Kai

 

[Soulive]

Great job Kaiser! That's another HBT educational gem. I think some of the probrewers I know would be impressed by that tutorial. Awesome work

 

[aekdbbop]

wow Kaiser..

what a smart guy.. and a great video.. waaayy over my head..

your accent helps with your credibility though..haha

 

[Kaiser]

your accent helps with your credibility though..haha

Maybe I should make a video in which I show how to pronouce common brewing terms like kraeusen and vorlauf.

Kai

 

[DeadYetiBrew]

Thanks Kai,

I appreciate the video, really simplified my thoughts on it.... In fact i don't know why i didn't decoct from the start.... Looks like control is easier than other methods....

This is great still trying to figure out when i'll be able to brew my O-fest and Bock...

 

[Kaiser]

I appreciate the video, really simplified my thoughts on it.... In fact i don't know why i didn't decoct from the start.... Looks like control is easier than other methods....

You don't have to decoct to get that control. Simply aiming for a dough-in between 133 F and 140 and using boiling water infusions to raise the temp to sacc temp temperatures works well enough. That's what I do as my standard mash for German beers.

Kai

 

[DeadYetiBrew]

You don't have to decoct to get that control. Simply aiming for a dough-in between 133 F and 140 and using boiling water infusions to raise the temp to sacc temp temperatures works well enough. That's what I do as my standard mash for German beers.

Kai

Thats true but not as fun

 

[instereo13]

great video. I'm gonna try a double decoction pilsner next.

One question: why do you do your iodine test on chalk?

jason

 

[bradsul]

Just for the heck of it yesterday I did a double decoction mash on my nut brown ale. I did a MUCH thicker decoction than I had any previous time and what do you know - I nailed my saccharification temperature perfectly! With all that extra grain in the decoction I also had a couple apartments around me come out and ask me what that amazing smell was.

Thanks Kaiser!

 

[WortMonger]

Did you tell them you were making magical marsh-mellow flavored rainbows and they couldn't come in to see? LOL, I tried a triple on my last ale, wow, very fragrant. I loved it, but I do wish I had a fume hood as the house smelled like it for two days. A double is probably all I will ever do again, but it was an experience.

 

[ohiobrewtus]

Excellent videos, Kaiser. I saw this thread a few weeks ago, but was unable to view the videos. I'm glad that someone posted in this thread again and I was able to check it.

Great work as always - it has been added to my favorites.

 

[Kaiser]

One question: why do you do your iodine test on chalk?

I find it easier to read, and it's not as messy as using a small dish. If you don't have chalk at hand, don't worry about it

Thanks Kaiser!

 

[henrychinaski]

sweet video. i had done a single decoction about 2 years ago just to see what it was like and add some body to a porter, but after getting a refrigerator on craig's list for $40 bucks, i decided it was time to try the real thing.
gregory j. noonan's book brewing lager beer left me feeling adequately prepared, but the visual experience really drove it home for me. as a matter of fact, it made me so confident that i decided to jump in feet first and do two in one day. i was at it from 9am to 12:30am last night.
it was tough getting up for work this morning, but i forgot about it when i came home to a bohemian pilsner and a 100% munich southern german lager (octoberfest?) happily bubbling away at 52 deg. f.
i'm finally lagering!
thanks again.
by the way, your accent's fine.

 

[Kaiser]

Glad you liked it and welcome to the forum.

Kai

 

[WortMonger]

Now there is a trooper, two in one day. Man!!!!

 

[nathan]

I just picked up two upright freezers that can hold 6.5/7 gallon carboys one atop the other, or two buckets, or two 5gal carboys.

As soon as I can afford the dual stage controllers (it's in an uninsulated garage, so need it both ways, already have heat sources), I'll have lagering capability.

I can't wait to test it out this summer.



So, If I may ask, if you are using a system like a Brutus Ten type, or B3 sculpture, would it work to replace the normal boil kettle with another pot, and use that burner and pot for the decoction boils? You could then use the pumped temp-control for your mash tun and have one less thing to worry about. Except maybe that you'd return less of the hot decoction to raise temps (then adjust controller on mash sensor) and let more cool in the decoction kettle to return when it cools to the proper rest temp for that return. Does that make sense?

 

[Kaiser]

So, If I may ask, if you are using a system like a Brutus Ten type, or B3 sculpture, would it work to replace the normal boil kettle with another pot, and use that burner and pot for the decoction boils? You could then use the pumped temp-control for your mash tun and have one less thing to worry about. Except maybe that you'd return less of the hot decoction to raise temps (then adjust controller on mash sensor) and let more cool in the decoction kettle to return when it cools to the proper rest temp for that return. Does that make sense?

Yes, that makes sense. You could also boil the decoction in the boil kettle, but it might be more awkward.

What does NOT work is running the liquid part (though the false bottom) into the boil kettle or a cooler, boiling what remains in the MLT and then returning the liquid path to the MLT. This will kill most (if not all) of the enzymes since you are lowering the temp of the decoction with the enzyme rich thin mash that you kept on the side as opposed to raising the temp of the enzyme rich mash with the decoction. You would have to scoop the decoction into the thin mash first to be able to use the fact that you can easily separate thin from thick with the false bottom.

Kai

 

[WBC]

Kai, So when a large German brewery does a mash in modern times and wants to make traditional Maibock with a decocted taste then what mash procedure do they use with the huge volumes of grain that they mash? It seems to me that it has to be a hands off type of mash.

 

[Kaiser]

If their brewhouse allows for decoction (separate mash boil kettle), they can easily do that. They let the mash settle and pump the desired volume of decoction from the bottom of the mash tun to the mash boil kettle.

Kai

 

[nathan]

Okay, so you have that layer of protein goo that settled on top of your mash in the video.

Would you sparge onto that? Spoon it off? Stir it up, then vorlauf and hope it all stayed behind?

Is it good to remove or do you lose something (FAN/lipids for yeast food, body, head retention?)

 

[Kaiser]

Nathan,

Don’t worry about that protein. I’ve just shown it as an FYI and there was even more after the first run-off. But that got mixed into the grains when I stirred in the sparge water. It’s the same stuff you leave behind in the boil kettle when you rack the wort into the fermenter.

Kai

 

[nathan]

I never realized there was so much of it.

 

[Kaiser]

I never realized there was so much of it.

It's because you boil a part of the wort. The stuff you have in the lauter tun will be missing from the trub in your boil kettle.

Kai

 

[b767fo]

Ich wollte nur sagen, danke schön für die ausgezeichnete Video! I have been wanting to make a classic Bamburg rauchbier for some time and the best recipe I found called for a double decoction. I read the steps in Palmer several times but watching you doing it made it crystal clear. And the accent and music were icing on the cake - took me back to my last Reise nach Bayern!

 

[Kaiser]

Bitte schoen.

Kai

 

[sirsloop]

damn.... lots of "love" goes into a decoction mash! Heh heh... start at 8am... hopefully finish before the sun goes down.

 

[ShortSnoutBrewing]

Don't know if it was mentioned already, but video 3 is saying it is no longer available.

 

[Kaiser]

It worked for me when I just tried it. Even after I logged out of Youtube. I'll check the links.

Kai