Decoction mash out?

[Mathomson75]

so basically i am thinking of messing around a little on my next brew of an IPA and instead of doing a infusion mash out i was thinking of decocting some wort for the mash out. Mainly to up the amount of sparge water which with my recipe is never more than a gallon or two. My question is mainly has anyone done this with an ipa style beer and will it affect the flavor? I have read about doing this with wheat beers and other styles but not much on an ipa.

 

[jerbrew]

No, never tried it. Maybe, it might affect the flavor profile. One question though? Why mash out? Unless you are doing some very time consuming lautering procedure you probably don't have to worry about stopping conversion. Additionally, since its an IPA continued conversion wouldn't be an all around bad thing. Just posing the question since you may be able to save yourself the time and effort of a mash out and just continue to sparging.

If you are going to pull off wort and heat it up to infuse to mash out temps, I say don't even worry about a detoction (pulling out the "thick" part of the mash). Pull off some of the wort and heat it up (boiling if you wish), leave the grains behind, and add it back to the mash until you hit 170f then leave the rest in the kettle

 

[Mathomson75]

I mash out because I use a false bottom and after having several severely stuck sparges figured out mashing out helps haven't had one since. And what I was referring to was just pulling out wort and boiling just wondering if it will affect flavor at all?

 

[John Eberly]

Decoctions increase malty flavors when done traditionally- meaning that brewer pulls about a third of thick part of the mash, heats it through rest temps, and then boils it.

If you only draw off liquid and boil it to add temp back into the mash I don't think you would do much to flavor. Might equate to a longer boil with a little darkening of the wort.

 

[jerbrew]

If that's what works for you then do it. Shouldn't affect anything if you pull out a bit boil it and use it as an infusion. I would just avoid boiling it for very long. Bring to a boil then add immediately.

 

[VladOfTrub]

The style/type of beer does not have anything to do with determining if mash out is used, neither does a false bottom. The procedure only works the right way when the decoction method is used.

When the single temperature infusion method is used at no time during mashing are temperatures high enough to burst hard starch. The starch is very noticeable in the spent mash tossed in the compost pile. The starch is amylo-pectin. The starch is located at the ends of the kernel. The primary starch that home brewers work with is simple starch called amylose.

Mash out temperature is high enough to burst amylo-pectin. At mash out temperature the complex starch enters into solution at the time when enzymes denature. Since, the enzymes cannot do anything with the starch a thing called starch carry over occurs. The stability of the final product is negatively impacted. Not to worry, drink the stuff when it is young.
During the boiling periods in the decoction method the starch is dealt with long before enzymes denature. The starch is responsible for body. Enzymes release a certain type of sugar from the complex starch chain called A and B limit dextrin which are tasteless, non-fermenting types of sugar responsible for body.
It appears that home made American style IPA produced by the single infusion method does not require body, since, the body producing starch ends up in the compost pile. Consider the starch, money.
There's more to be concerned with than deciding to mash out, starting with the brewing method, ingredients and the definition of home made IPA.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

I mash out because I use a false bottom and after having several severely stuck sparges figured out mashing out helps haven't had one since. And what I was referring to was just pulling out wort and boiling just wondering if it will affect flavor at all?

Try conditioning your grain before milling and skipping the mash out.

 

[jerbrew]

The style/type of beer does not have anything to do with determining if mash out is used, neither does a false bottom. The procedure only works the right way when the decoction method is used.



When the single temperature infusion method is used at no time during mashing are temperatures high enough to burst hard starch. The starch is very noticeable in the spent mash tossed in the compost pile. The starch is amylo-pectin. The starch is located at the ends of the kernel. The primary starch that home brewers work with is simple starch called amylose.



Mash out temperature is high enough to burst amylo-pectin. At mash out temperature the complex starch enters into solution at the time when enzymes denature. Since, the enzymes cannot do anything with the starch a thing called starch carry over occurs. The stability of the final product is negatively impacted. Not to worry, drink the stuff when it is young.

During the boiling periods in the decoction method the starch is dealt with long before enzymes denature. The starch is responsible for body. Enzymes release a certain type of sugar from the complex starch chain called A and B limit dextrin which are tasteless, non-fermenting types of sugar responsible for body.

It appears that home made American style IPA produced by the single infusion method does not require body, since, the body producing starch ends up in the compost pile. Consider the starch, money.

There's more to be concerned with than deciding to mash out, starting with the brewing method, ingredients and the definition of home made IPA.

That's something I've never seen explained here or in anything I've read(hard vs simple starch). Do you have a good reference (online or book) where I can school myself?