DC Area Group Grain Buy #12

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk:

jamisonia

Active Member
Joined
May 27, 2014
Messages
38
Reaction score
1
So from reading through it sounds like we got scale problems? I have a baker's scale, believe it can do 70 ish lb so I can bring that. What I don't have any of is vessels to hold grain though. No grocery bags, as I live in DC (cleaning up the Anacostia 5 cents at a time) I will show up closer to 10 to help with splits, or earlier if that is better to help.
 

reddskinnfan

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2009
Messages
1,541
Reaction score
134
Location
Point of Rocks
I have 75# scale. We need tables, scoops and grocery bags.

I think Bigbeavk is bringing some buckets, too. Those are usually good for 10-15# splits.
 

reddskinnfan

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2009
Messages
1,541
Reaction score
134
Location
Point of Rocks
I am packing up to head out. Got my scale, splits labels and splits checklist. I won't have any grocery bags, unfortunately. Heading to drop off the kids with a friend, so I can be there 9:45-10:00. See you guys soon!
 

lfordie

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 23, 2011
Messages
52
Reaction score
6
Location
middletown
Unfortunately I will not be able to make today's meet. I got called into work. I live in Frederick but work in DC. If someone is willing I can meet anywhere along 270.
 

BrewSavage

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2014
Messages
402
Reaction score
77
Location
Gaithersburg
I live in gaithersburg, a mile from the clopper road exit.
I'm willing to collect it and you can swing by later to pick it up.
 

ptrack

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2015
Messages
65
Reaction score
8
Location
Olney
Quick question, is there any issue bringing my 3 year old with me to pick up my grains? I can't make it down there until 11:30 or so and would hope to stick around until growler hours but I don't know what the brewery's policy is with kids. Thanks!
 

IslandLizard

Progressive Brewing
Staff member
Mod
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Jan 9, 2013
Messages
18,541
Reaction score
8,687
Location
Pasadena, MD
Quick question, is there any issue bringing my 3 year old with me to pick up my grains? I can't make it down there until 11:30 or so and would hope to stick around until growler hours but I don't know what the brewery's policy is with kids. Thanks!
They're fine with kids.
 

ptrack

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 17, 2015
Messages
65
Reaction score
8
Location
Olney
On my way but running a few minutes late. I will be there just after noon.
 

BrewSavage

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 30, 2014
Messages
402
Reaction score
77
Location
Gaithersburg
Thanks to our organizers and all that helped in the splits.

Specials thanks to Jamisonia, I know he did some sticky work with DME
 

IslandLizard

Progressive Brewing
Staff member
Mod
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Jan 9, 2013
Messages
18,541
Reaction score
8,687
Location
Pasadena, MD
================ Proposal ================

I've been rethinking the splits program and have come to a solution which will enable me to continue doing it for the group, as I have in the past.

In short, I'll add 10% to the cost of the sack and that 10% goes to my account. I can buy grain for that, or do with it whatever I want.

This pertains to splits only, not whole sacks ordered.

Reasons:
Managing the group buy, mainly the splits, is very time consuming.
 

reddskinnfan

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2009
Messages
1,541
Reaction score
134
Location
Point of Rocks
Thanks to our organizers and all that helped in the splits.

Specials thanks to Jamisonia, I know he did some sticky work with DME
Yes, thanks to those who came out today to assist! It was good to see some of the newer folks assisting this around.

For everyone else, please lend a hand at a group buy. Managing these, and preparing for them isn't easy, is costly and time consuming.
 

reddskinnfan

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2009
Messages
1,541
Reaction score
134
Location
Point of Rocks
================ Proposal ================

I've been rethinking the splits program and have come to a solution which will enable me to continue doing it for the group, as I have in the past.

In short, I'll add 10% to the cost of the sack and that 10% goes to my account. I can buy grain for that, or do with it whatever I want.

This pertains to splits only, not whole sacks ordered.

Reasons:
Managing the group buy, mainly the splits, is very time consuming.
I could get behind that. Doing the data work is no fun and managing the thread is a full time job.

To also keep splits management to a minimum, we could limit them. Maybe make the minimum split #10, no splits on base grain (2row, Pale, Pils, Maris/Golden Promise), no splits on DME. If you need 5# of something, work it out on the side with another buyer or get it at the LHBS while there.
 

IslandLizard

Progressive Brewing
Staff member
Mod
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Jan 9, 2013
Messages
18,541
Reaction score
8,687
Location
Pasadena, MD
I could get behind that. Doing the data work is no fun and managing the thread is a full time job.
+1^ You saw some of the background data work involved. :mug:

To also keep splits management to a minimum, we could limit them. Maybe make the minimum split #10, no splits on base grain (2row, Pale, Pils, Maris/Golden Promise), no splits on DME. If you need 5# of something, work it out on the side with another buyer or get it at the LHBS while there.
I'm not opposed to 5# splits per se, although they should be in the minority.

Similar for DME as long as someone who takes a share, splits it. It's not that bad, really. Ask j1n or jamisonia.

Regarding DME, most of us only use it for starters, so a whole sack would be prohibitive, but we use more than a couple pounds. It runs $4.00-5.00 a pound at the LHBS vs. what we pay here.

Agree on omitting the base grain for splits with maybe a couple exceptions such as MO/GP/Boh Pils. Food for thought though.

Here's the breakdown per quantities ordered:

Group Buy #12 -- 58 splits total:
18 x 5# 6 of those were PBW
30 x 10# 7 of those were PBW
8 x 15#
1 x 25#
1 x 30#
 

reddskinnfan

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2009
Messages
1,541
Reaction score
134
Location
Point of Rocks
I still think anything less than 10# should be cut (except for PBW).

Base malts, even Maris, GP, Pils should be full sacks too. The cost isn't that much, and the buyer WILL use it, eventually.

Now, again, I don't manage this buy. I only participate, help with things when necessary and pretty much come to them all (even when only 10# is on the line), but I think I can safely speak for a few others who expressed their opinions to me today on this exact topic.

If DME is a sticky subject (pun intended) maybe we can still split that, but with the 10# minimum, too.

We should buy grains that the majority want, and split up in 10#, or more increments.

Those grains that we won't split, people should grab while at 3 Stars. It pushes some of that profit back to 3 Stars, as well. I know some buy from 3 Stars when we're there, but a lot don't. They just come, grab their grain and run. It's not fair to 3 Stars and not fair to us.

My $0.02....
 

j1n

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2014
Messages
2,147
Reaction score
1,029
Location
Northern
================ Proposal ================

I've been rethinking the splits program and have come to a solution which will enable me to continue doing it for the group, as I have in the past.

In short, I'll add 10% to the cost of the sack and that 10% goes to my account. I can buy grain for that, or do with it whatever I want.

This pertains to splits only, not whole sacks ordered.

Reasons:
Managing the group buy, mainly the splits, is very time consuming.

I'm ok with this. I know i greatly appreciate all the work you do. adding 10% to me is very worth it.

I guess you didnt make it this round. will look forward to seeing you at the next buy. :mug:
 

peter78

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2011
Messages
231
Reaction score
22
Location
Washington
================ Proposal ================

I've been rethinking the splits program and have come to a solution which will enable me to continue doing it for the group, as I have in the past.

In short, I'll add 10% to the cost of the sack and that 10% goes to my account. I can buy grain for that, or do with it whatever I want.

This pertains to splits only, not whole sacks ordered.

Reasons:
Managing the group buy, mainly the splits, is very time consuming.


I support that Frits. I'm pretty sure it's alot of work and you've been doing it for a long time. I'll be happy to get you some grain for your work. Still can't get better price anywhere. As of the splits increments, I still have 2.5 lbs of oak smoked wheat from a 5lb split a year ago. Same for acidulated. As of MO splits, yeah it's a base malt and it's not that much more. Some of us live in condos in the city, space is limited, but I'll leave that to you guys decission. Just my 0.02 cents
 

jamisonia

Active Member
Joined
May 27, 2014
Messages
38
Reaction score
1
I agree that splitting DME wasn't that bad, just sticky.

I don't think adding 10% to splits is that bad, however; my only concern is that it will disproportionally affect those taking larger shares of the split. If one of the problems are too many small shares of splits this will exacerbate the problem.

Perhaps another solution could be another person helping Fritz to manage the thread and splits. Google Drive makes it pretty easy so you won't accidentally double count.
 

reddskinnfan

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2009
Messages
1,541
Reaction score
134
Location
Point of Rocks
I agree that splitting DME wasn't that bad, just sticky.

I don't think adding 10% to splits is that bad, however; my only concern is that it will disproportionally affect those taking larger shares of the split. If one of the problems are too many small shares of splits this will exacerbate the problem.

Perhaps another solution could be another person helping Fritz to manage the thread and splits. Google Drive makes it pretty easy so you won't accidentally double count.
Good point! This may very well make splits even more cumbersome and push the burden even more toward those you are getting larger orders and create even more splits.

If you look at it. Adding 10% on top of 5# split of Carafa III would make the grain $1.23/pound. Most LHBS (not sure about 3 Stars) is $1.50 or $2.00/lb for malt. You're saving a maximum of $0.77/lb for malt. If you factor in driving, then you've just lost the perceived gain. The loss is less pronounced in larger splits, of course, so may be more easily justified (especially if you live closer, etc). Again, another reason I say to keep the real specialty stuff as purchases direct from 3 Stars instead of through the buy...

Now, I am going to put this out there.... I would be willing to help manage the sheets, thread (when I can) and do the labels, etc. That may help keep Frits from dealing with it all, and would allow us to keep most of the way we currently do business. I am not sure that is enough to keep Frits in it though, without the 10% surcharge, so I'll talk to him about it.

I am all for keeping costs as low as I can. But, I also know how much of a PITA this can be.

It all really boils down to splits and how we manage them. Way back when we didn't do splits, unless it was worked out as a side item between the parties (not managed as part of the buy). I, personally, like splits for grains I know I will use a lot of (Crystals, Biscuits, etc). The other stuff we got into a habit of ordering just because we could...

Maybe the easiest way to deal with splits is to trim down the available grain list to remove some of those that really no one needs more than 5# for a few years.

Just spitballin' here...
 
OP
stonebrewer

stonebrewer

Invented the IPL
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Mar 8, 2012
Messages
2,118
Reaction score
378
Location
rockville
I saw this last night and avoided posting my initial reaction. I understand where Frits is coming from and I appreciate all the hard work he does. A few things that ran through my mind last night:

* I set this up to help homebrewers, not to profit from it financially, but I did want the "profit" of finding new friends, having great conversations, and sharing awesome homebrews. I would like that to continue.

* Splits have started (?) to settle down. 11 Splits this buy. Talking with other "regulars" it is because we all have a homebrew store in our houses now. :D Perhaps the management of splits will get easier and we will not need to put in as much time. Newer members come in slowly and they will want their own homebrew store in their basement, so I would like to continue splits.

* Perhaps some "split reform" is needed. Things like half bag minimum, 10 lb minimum, or you split among yourselves came up in conversation. Willing to listen to other ideas as well. One thing I have been thinking is full sacks only, get your specialty grains at 3 stars, split only PBW...or something like that as another possible solution.

* People have really stepped up and splitting is easy at the delivery end. I could open up a buy sheet to all to add splits after posting here, and once a day/week edit/move that to a master copy so no one has to track the forum as much. Of course, a weekly or so post with open splits would need to be done, but we could slow down the amount of instant feedback that we have now. Happy to take volunteers to help with this to relieve Frits from the workload, if we go this way.

* Next buy is a couple of months away, likely, but I need to open up the next buy. I will delay that a few days to a week to get feedback. Feel free to post or email me with your thoughts.
 

IslandLizard

Progressive Brewing
Staff member
Mod
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Jan 9, 2013
Messages
18,541
Reaction score
8,687
Location
Pasadena, MD
Regarding this^ and ^^

Re: Limiting split amounts and variety:
Most of us regulars are now stocked up on Carafa and other dark roasts for the next few years already. I doubt there's a demand for them any time soon. Not many would want 10# of each of those anyway, the 5# splits made them just bearable.

I think the charm of the smaller 5# splits is that we can try the more elusive grains. For example I like those Golden Naked Oats a lot, and I wouldn't have known that without our group buy splits. And I would have gotten 5# of the peat smoked malt too, just not this time.

Re: Malt price and cost:
I doubt LHBS prices differ that much but I know in my area a pound of specialty malt runs $2.25+ on average. Double or more than from our group buy.

No, it makes little sense to drive 45 minutes each way to pick up a 5# split. But, aside from a few splits, most will have a couple whole sacks too, making it surely worthwhile. Don't forget our golden brewers' pow-wow hour, filling a growler, and grabbing some yeast from the store.

Hands down, Annapolis HB has the largest selection of specialty malts on hand, many of those we can order through our group buy (but at twice the price) :(. But... they don't have the whole set, although they do have a bunch more from other maltsters. They're mostly out of the way for most of you, so not much of an option. It's a 20' drive for me and they have plenty of yeast and are very helpful and friendly.

MDHB has a comparatively small by-the-pound grain selection. 3-Stars' grain offerings don't even get close to those 2.
 
Last edited:

reddskinnfan

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 26, 2009
Messages
1,541
Reaction score
134
Location
Point of Rocks
Stone,

I am happy to help any way I can. Taking load off of updates to sheets/thread, getting labels ready, etc. Just tell me what you need.

As far as splits go, my vote is:

* No splits on ANY base malt (inc. Maris, Golden Promise, Pils) or Rice Hulls.

* Minimum 10# order on any split. If a bag has 55#, only one 5# split allowed, if (and only if) the final 5# of grain isn't grabbed as part of one of the splits.

* DME and PBW splits allowed, with same minimum 10# rule above.

Doing the above, you keep the original grain list so people have variety.

If people need less, they should work a side deal outside the buy, or get it from LHBS.
 
OP
stonebrewer

stonebrewer

Invented the IPL
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Mar 8, 2012
Messages
2,118
Reaction score
378
Location
rockville
Frits brings up a good point. Perhaps a little more thought is needed on split limits. Perhaps a split rule per type of malt, something like this:

Base grain: no splitting, or half bags only and you two deal with the split.
Common specialty grains: Crystal malts, flaked oats, aromatic, honey, munich, carapils, etc. split minimums of 10#
Uncommon specialty grains: GNO, acidified, chocolate etc. splits allowed at 5# or greater (this should be a short list)
Rarely used: Carafa I, II, III, etc. get it from the homebrew store as 5# will last you a brewing career

Let's not lose sight of why we are doing this in the discussion...to help each other out and, really, to have our own "club" where we meet aperiodically to get grains, share our wonderful yeast produced creations, and talk beer! If the pendulum of work to run this has swung to far, let's find a middle ground to make it easier, but without sacrificing the neat things that we can do as a group. Golden naked is a staple in my IPAs now, and this group buy made it so...that is a good thing! Cheers!
 
OP
stonebrewer

stonebrewer

Invented the IPL
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Mar 8, 2012
Messages
2,118
Reaction score
378
Location
rockville
Under the Claphamsa régime, if you wanted a split, you did it privately. One buyer per bag, period. It outsources the headaches to those that opt into it. Whats wrong with that?
That may be where this ends up, dunno. It really depends on if people want to continue doing splits or not. I kinda like the idea of getting specialty grains at half price, but then again if it is too much work on one or two people then either others need to step up or it goes away and we do just as you suggest...
 

robfar

Thomas Corcoran Brew Works
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
May 18, 2012
Messages
301
Reaction score
56
Location
Odenton
Talking with other "regulars" it is because we all have a homebrew store in our houses now. :D
I took inventory when I got home yesterday:

220 lbs of malt and DME in my basement. I blame Frits:D

I support the proposed 10 lb min and base malt limits. People need to realize you are better off buying your crystals and carafas 8 ounces at a time at your LHBS. You really don't want that stuff hanging around for ten years.
 

IslandLizard

Progressive Brewing
Staff member
Mod
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Jan 9, 2013
Messages
18,541
Reaction score
8,687
Location
Pasadena, MD
I took inventory when I got home yesterday:

220 lbs of malt and DME in my basement. I blame Frits:D

I support the proposed 10 lb min and base malt limits. People need to realize you are better off buying your crystals and carafas 8 ounces at a time at your LHBS. You really don't want that stuff hanging around for ten years.
Whoahahaha!

Don't blame me, I'm just the facilitator. Brew more and all' be cured.
 
OP
stonebrewer

stonebrewer

Invented the IPL
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Mar 8, 2012
Messages
2,118
Reaction score
378
Location
rockville
Speaking of lots malt hanging around...I have a metric s-ton of it from the group buy yesterday. Please make arrangements ASAP to pickup:

stevedasleeve
Claphamsa
meltonbw
res291que

Will try to shoot you an email later, after cleaning the gutters! What fun!
Thanks!
 
Top