Curious if my starter is ok or not worth using...

[obi1ne]

N00B DISCLAIMER: THIS IS MY FIRST BREWING EXPERIENCE!!

First off I did not realize until after I purchased my liquid yeast that it was past its ideal use date. I purchased WLP011: European Ale Yeast and to my surpise it was on sale (little did I know) because the to use date was Jan 2012!! We purchased it last week April 26th, 2012. I was really close to just pitching it in the trash honestly after realizing this. I decided anyways to try a starter and did this last Friday the 27th. 1500ml boiling water with 150g light DME cooled and combined in a glass 1/2 gallon jar at around 72-73 degrees. I saw NOTHING that night after the first few hours, and the next morning still the same light clearish brown no noticeable activity and looked like yeast just settled to the bottom (I figured it was maybe just dead and a lost cause). Sunday night I still had it and surprisingly noticed it was completely different looking cloudy cream/brown looking and lots of mini bubbles fizzing away (but no foaming or thick bubbles like I see in other peoples videos) as of tonight 4/30 the same is going on. I am curious if this is normal activity and would it be possible to try and brew tomorrow with it or give it more time or just start with a newer vial of yeast?? Any feedback would be gratefully received and thanks in advance.

 

[JoshuaWhite5522]

chances are since it was past it's best by date you had a good portion of the vial as dead yeast, there for it's taking a bit of time for the yeast to multiply. You should now have more viable yeast than you did in the tube. You'll be safe to brew with it on tuesday. I usually give my starters 48-72 hours, an honestly I've never once checked the date on them, but I have also always made a starter and never have I had a lage time longer than 12 hours.

 

[jyoung383]

Your fine, i would pitch it. The lag was probably because the Older vial has less vitality and viability. The starter would have built up the number and health of the cells. Pitch it and worry about what to brew next.

 

[iijakii]

Basic rule of a starter is that if you get that white ring of yeast then youre A OK

 

[kh54s10]

Sounds like it is doing very well. If you are doing intermittent shaking let it ride another day or so until you see less activity then you can either brew a batch and pitch it or put it in the fridge to let the yeast settle out. Then decant the beer off the top, let it warm to your pitching temperature then proceed.

Look forward to a very good beer!

 

[obi1ne]

yeh, she is rocking and rolling I pitched Tuesday like we originally planned (decant the beer and pitched all the yeasty goodness). Weds morning she acted like the pink slime in ghost busters II bubbling and quite foamy. Needless to say I may go back and purchase a bunch more of these discounted yeast vials at $3.00 with a little time it beats paying full price. Thanks for all the pointers I this will turn out ok, my OG was a bit lower than we had expected but that's another post.

 

[slarkin712]

That great that it's fermenting! The issue is that you probably under pitched the amount of yeast you needed. Let's say the yeast you bought is 6-8 months old. I'd say it's viability is maybe 10% (I'm using yeastcalc.com, and it could be better or worse depending on its storage conditions). If you made a 1.5L starter and let it ferment out, that would give you 50-60 billion yeast cells. For a 5 gallon batch of 1.050 OG wort you would need about 175 billion yeast cells according to standard pitching rates. So, you're pretty far under that. What you can do next time is decant your starter and the add 1.5L of fresh starter wort and let it ferment again. This is a two-step starter and will get you enough healthy yeast cells to ensure a healthy fermentation.

Disclaimer: I'm not saying that the batch you just made will not be good with the under-pitched yeast. Rather, with a larger quantity of healthy yeast it is more probable that you will have a more complete fermentation and reach your intended FG. And the beer may have a better/cleaner flavor profile.

 

[pabloj13]

that great that it's fermenting! The issue is that you probably under pitched the amount of yeast you needed. Let's say the yeast you bought is 6-8 months old. I'd say it's viability is maybe 10% (i'm using yeastcalc.com, and it could be better or worse depending on its storage conditions). If you made a 1.5l starter and let it ferment out, that would give you 50-60 billion yeast cells. For a 5 gallon batch of 1.050 og wort you would need about 175 billion yeast cells according to standard pitching rates. So, you're pretty far under that. What you can do next time is decant your starter and the add 1.5l of fresh starter wort and let it ferment again. This is a two-step starter and will get you enough healthy yeast cells to ensure a healthy fermentation.

Disclaimer: I'm not saying that the batch you just made will not be good with the under-pitched yeast. Rather, with a larger quantity of healthy yeast it is more probable that you will have a more complete fermentation and reach your intended fg. And the beer may have a better/cleaner flavor profile.

+1

 

[joety]

+1

+2, rule of thumb for older yeast packs is to do a step up. As long as you get the first step to go you are fine. Remember, they have recovered yeast from bottles in shipwrecks from over 100 years ago and stepped them up to brew beer.

You'll generally get a feel for how old your yeast is from that initial lag. I've had 6-8 month old packs that seemed fairly normal and much younger packs that didn't fair so well.

 

[obi1ne]

That great that it's fermenting! The issue is that you probably under pitched the amount of yeast you needed. Let's say the yeast you bought is 6-8 months old. I'd say it's viability is maybe 10% (I'm using yeastcalc.com, and it could be better or worse depending on its storage conditions). If you made a 1.5L starter and let it ferment out, that would give you 50-60 billion yeast cells. For a 5 gallon batch of 1.050 OG wort you would need about 175 billion yeast cells according to standard pitching rates. So, you're pretty far under that. What you can do next time is decant your starter and the add 1.5L of fresh starter wort and let it ferment again. This is a two-step starter and will get you enough healthy yeast cells to ensure a healthy fermentation.

Disclaimer: I'm not saying that the batch you just made will not be good with the under-pitched yeast. Rather, with a larger quantity of healthy yeast it is more probable that you will have a more complete fermentation and reach your intended FG. And the beer may have a better/cleaner flavor profile.

Dude this is very good info!! With this information is it safe to assume that I will most certainly have to wait a little longer than the given 14 day primary fermentation period?? Either way this turns out this will certainly be my new standard practice for yeast that is beyond its peak (or noted usage date)!!

 

[pabloj13]

Dude this is very good info!! With this information is it safe to assume that I will most certainly have to wait a little longer than the given 14 day primary fermentation period?? Either way this turns out this will certainly be my new standard practice for yeast that is beyond its peak (or noted usage date)!!

Take any instructions that tell you "Fermentation should last xxx days..." and throw them out. Use your hydrometer to tell you when it is finished. It might lag a little because of underpitching. The bigger potential issue is that the yeast will likely be stressed and this can lead to less than ideal flavors. That doesn't mean it will, and lots of people will come on and say they always underpitch and don't have any problems.

 

[ACbrewer]

Take any instructions that tell you "Fermentation should last xxx days..." and throw them out. Use your hydrometer to tell you when it is finished. It might lag a little because of underpitching. The bigger potential issue is that the yeast will likely be stressed and this can lead to less than ideal flavors. That doesn't mean it will, and lots of people will come on and say they always underpitch and don't have any problems.

+1 on hydrometer.


I'm in that underpitch catagory. However.
1 Although I say 'my beer tastes fine' I'm sure if I pitched right it would taste better.
2. certian styles(read belgians) are more tollerant of underpitching. As this is my prefered styles, I'm good with it.

What underpitching leads to is more byproducts which in excess cause off flavors. Proper pitching will still have some of those same byproducts, just lesser. Over pitching (to much yeast) depends on style, is harder to over pitch the cleaner the flavor like a lager or pale ale.
Over pitching is again very hard - so much so that nobody seems to have a "this is proper for pitch, but don't go over this" It can lead to beer that just tastes like it is missing something (Yeast by Zainasheff and White)

 

[obi1ne]

Take any instructions that tell you "Fermentation should last xxx days..." and throw them out. Use your hydrometer to tell you when it is finished. It might lag a little because of underpitching. The bigger potential issue is that the yeast will likely be stressed and this can lead to less than ideal flavors. That doesn't mean it will, and lots of people will come on and say they always underpitch and don't have any problems.

Again good info, I am starting to get a good grasp of understanding some of the science behind the whole yeast element of the recipes (not to say I still have quite a bit to learn). The other reason I am hopeful this will turn out is this is a Purple Haze clone recipe and upon bottling calls for some fruit extract which I am really banking will help mask any major off putting flavors. This was a recipe requested by the wifey so I could not say no, I just hope it is not a total waste...:cross:

and by the way, thanks neighbor!!

 

[pabloj13]

Again good info, I am starting to get a good grasp of understanding some of the science behind the whole yeast element of the recipes (not to say I still have quite a bit to learn). The other reason I am hopeful this will turn out is this is a Purple Haze clone recipe and upon bottling calls for some fruit extract which I am really banking will help mask any major off putting flavors. This was a recipe requested by the wifey so I could not say no, I just hope it is not a total waste...:cross:

and by the way, thanks neighbor!!

Any time. This is a great place to learn and there are a ton of NC brewers on here.