Just picked up some Chevallier malt for bitters and London porters. Some articles mention step mashing with a 90 minute mash to maximize the malt’s yield and flavor; does anyone have some experiences? Thanks
Crisp Heritage Chevallier Malt: Step Mash?
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I’d also read that the ultimate product should condition for a couple months to take off the grain’s “edge”.
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Die Schwarzbier Polizei
I use Chevallier in historical recipes which mostly employ multistepped schedules. Occasionally I perform a single infusion mash, when the recipe requires it. My impression is that multi-step mash gives noticeably better yield and slightly richer flavour.
I think I usually did a hochkurz mash with it and was always very happy with the result.
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@Miraculix, I did some research on the hochkurz mash. Does
I’d not not heard of this Mash term, thanks for the suggestion!
- Beta amylase rest: 144°F (62°C) for 30 to 45 minutes
- Alpha amylase rest: 160°F (71°C) for 30 to 45 minutes
- Mash out: 170°F (77°C) for 10 to 15 minutes
I’d not not heard of this Mash term, thanks for the suggestion!
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You need the Sword of Gryffindor to stir it..
It's spot on! I use 30 minutes steps for the first two and 72c for the second, 15-20 minutes mash out.
Protos
Die Schwarzbier Polizei
With Chevallier, I brew only single-malt or malt-and-light-adjunct (like maize or inverted sugar) English historical recipes to showcase the unique flavour of the malt. So, I brew Bitters, Burton Ales and Barleywines with it. When a recipe includes Crystal, Amber or Roasted Malt I use simpler base malts (standard Pale Ale, Maris Otter, Golden Promise etc.), as I think adding strong additional flavours to Chevallier goes against the point of using this expensive and rare heritage malt which should be appreciated as it is, I believe.
Most traditional English recipes require a mash regimen similar to what in German brewing is called Hochkurz, i. e. a sacchartification rest at 62C / 144F and a dextrinisation rest at 72C / 162F. Often those rests are pretty long by the
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ok, my first brew will be a bitters. So Chevallier base and invert then british ale yeast. I ferment with a spunding valve in corny keg as a cask ale clone. Served with Angram beer pump. Thanks for your thoughts.
Just a quick note, I am brewing a bitter now with Chevallier and some crystal and a handful of midnight wheat. Oddly my mash pH dropped to 4.9 with and expected 5.43 from beersmith no acid additions with this one and pH meter is calibrated. I guess it could be the crystal but this happened on another batch when I use Chevallier as well. Keep an eye on your mash pH. I did the hochkurz as suggested.
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Thanks. For those interested in more information I’ve attached the Chevallier data sheet. Next week I’ll brew up a bitters, report at that time. I should also receive a floating Dip tube today for the corny I’ll ferment/serve.
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thanks for note on pH
For the first try with this malt,
Tinker’s Bunny Bitters
4g batch
70% efficiency, OG 1.035 with hypo abv 4.2%
Fermentables (lbs)
4.75 Chevallier
0.5. Torrified Wheat
0.5 invert #3
0.25. Crystal 55
Hops (oz)
1.75. Fuggles (60m)
0.5. Fuggles (10m)
Hochkurz mash; 144f @ 45m & 160f @ 45m
Ferment under pressure after 24hrs in 5g corny keg
For the first try with this malt,
Tinker’s Bunny Bitters
4g batch
70% efficiency, OG 1.035 with hypo abv 4.2%
Fermentables (lbs)
4.75 Chevallier
0.5. Torrified Wheat
0.5 invert #3
0.25. Crystal 55
Hops (oz)
1.75. Fuggles (60m)
0.5. Fuggles (10m)
Hochkurz mash; 144f @ 45m & 160f @ 45m
Ferment under pressure after 24hrs in 5g corny keg
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You want yeast expression in a bitter. Fermenting under pressure inhibits yeast expression. That does not makes sense to do.
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@Miraculix, I was thinking about that issue this morning on Tinkers walk. I was going to go 48 hrs with no pressure so the initial yeast flavor is developed.
But why on earth would you want to pressurise this fermentation? Just because you can, does not mean you should!
Honestly, English ale and pressure fermentation do not go well together. In fact, the exact oposite is actually beneficial, if done correctly. Open fermentation. So maybe play around with that instead?
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Ok, got the message
I’d like to serve the bitters through my beer engine so the delayed pressure fermentation is an attempt to create real ale.
maybe better to ferment in carboy (no pressure), transfer the results to a corny keg with sugar and a bit of yeast?
I appreciate your thoughts, this brewing direction isn’t common at Foam on the Range, our Homebrew club.
I’d like to serve the bitters through my beer engine so the delayed pressure fermentation is an attempt to create real ale.
maybe better to ferment in carboy (no pressure), transfer the results to a corny keg with sugar and a bit of yeast?
I appreciate your thoughts, this brewing direction isn’t common at Foam on the Range, our Homebrew club.
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Yes a very good reminderBut why on earth would you want to pressurise this fermentation? Just because you can, does not mean you should!
Honestly, English ale and pressure fermentation do not go well together. In fact, the exact oposite is actually beneficial, if done correctly. Open fermentation. So maybe play around with that instead?
Chev Heritage is 10-14% protein so you really want to hit that protein rest around 120F for a few minutes if you want to get a decent extract. I lazily used it in a bitter without pulling the spec sheet and my mash efficiency was 8% low. Incidentally, it's a wonderfully malty base malt.
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You overcomplicate thingsOk, got the message
I’d like to serve the bitters through my beer engine so the delayed pressure fermentation is an attempt to create real ale.
maybe better to ferment in carboy (no pressure), transfer the results to a corny keg with sugar and a bit of yeast?
I appreciate your thoughts, this brewing direction isn’t common at Foam on the Range, our Homebrew club.
.Brew it, ferment it, add priming sugar to keg, transfer beer into keg, close the keg, wait one, better two months, put it under serving pressure, serve.
If beer engine means no co2 hooked up, just leave it out.
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so yesterday was brew day and the results were good.
Mash was about 105 minutes and efficiency results were a bit better than expected, 75% vs 70%.
now a couple weeks fermenting.
Mash was about 105 minutes and efficiency results were a bit better than expected, 75% vs 70%.
now a couple weeks fermenting.
I just had a pint of the bitter made a couple weeks ago with Chevallier. Same story with this one, it's very grainy and dry even with a bunch of crystal. Hmmm.
I'm an going to do a double batch bitter this week using Chevallier in one and Root Shoot English in the other to see if it's Chevallier that is my issue.
Oddly enough root shoot has higher protein content.
I'm an going to do a double batch bitter this week using Chevallier in one and Root Shoot English in the other to see if it's Chevallier that is my issue.
Oddly enough root shoot has higher protein content.
How long did you let it mature? How high was your water alkalinity? How high was the sulfate level?
This one not long, I brewed it Jan 8th. The other batches I let sit for months that had the same flavor.
I had low pH issues on this one and added lime to raise it up. Alkalinity of water is very low. Sulfates we're around 100ppm if I remember correctly.
I should also say it's not bad, just very different. Kind of like if you used too much amber/brown malt.
Heritage malt looks like the malt that was used back in the day before brew masters knew how to test malt and before the IOB was founded. The malt spec sheet you provided is for a grain distillers use, there isn't enough info on it for an ale and lager brewer. Always obtain a malt spec sheet from the maltster instead of from a warehouse before buying malt. Notice the level of malt modification on the maltsters spec sheet. KI is 34 to 51 that means that in a bag of Heritage malt there is a mixture of high quality, under modified, malt 34 to 40 KI, and low quality, high modified, to over modified, malt 42 to 51 KI. A brewer will have no idea how much good malt is in a bag or how much low quality malt is in a bag. The protein content ranges from 10% and that is good, to 14% not so good. The more protein the less sugar. It looks like malt that was swept off the floor of the malthouse after malting a bunch of barley from different farms then it was bagged up with a nice story. Good malt is 40 KI and lower and contains 10% and less protein. The malt is rich in enzyme content and high in sugar content. The enzyme content in malt is important because when step mashing or when using the Hochkurz double decoction method there has to be enough enzymes to work throughout a longer brewing process.
At 160F Pasteurization occurs and on top of the high temperature the rest was 45 minutes long. Alpha rapidly denatured. When Alpha denatures too quickly, starch carry over occurs and the beer will be overly sweet and low in ABV.
It isn't a good idea to pressure ferment when the conversion rest is used. When conversion occurs, secondary fermentation takes place because of fermentable, complex sugar that forms during conversion, maltose and maltotriose. After primary fermentation ends the beer is racked off trub and autolyzed yeast and transferred into a secondary fermenter. After secondary fermentation ends the beer is transferred into a conditioning tank that has a relief valve attached and during conditioning the maltotriose that forms during conversion carbonates the beer. Beer made with the step mash method and the decoction method aren't carbonated during primary fermentation or artificially carbonated with sugar or with CO2 injection because over carbonation and bottle bombs can happen.
It is absolutely fantastic that you used the Hochkurz double decoction method from start to finish in 105 minutes! You boiled the mash two times and used two rest periods at 45 minutes each, then sparged and you finished in 105 minutes?
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thanks for all of this information. Seems there’s two topics; Chevallier Heritage malt and my process ideas. I’ll hit the process after fermentation which seems to be a good point as product ages a couple months.
I found the maltier’s spec sheet, not much more information than BSG’s sheet. I think your point as to modern malting processes and analysis is spot on. I think the Crisp Heritage malt group is about a trek in time. Just as a Model T can’t compete with the current Mustang there’s a certain draw to the Model T. My interest in brewing with malt from 200 years ago is about exploration not efficiency.
There’s also comedy as I was reading an 1886 paper on malt production and the author dove into manure spreading which probably shot the nitrogen levels off the charts. Thanks again!
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I've just got my second Chev base malt beer (8% old ale) into the kegerator, after a 6.4% English IPA.
Both have been fairly similar (in terms of attenuation) to the same beers brewed with MO, the old ale perhaps a hair lower. Both were mashed on the cooler side (around 63-65°C) for 60 minutes, with a 75°C mash out, then fermented at pretty normal ale temps and conditioned in keg for ~4-6 weeks before being carbed and served.
Both have had the perception of more sweetness than I'd expect to get from MO in the same beer. The old ale has a very pronounced toasted brown bread and nutty character to it that's quite reminiscent of melanoidin malt- though I suspect that might be the interplay between the Chev and small amount of amber malt in that beer. For my personal taste, so far I've preferred Chevallier in more heavily hopped beers, though the old ale is pretty young.
Both have been fairly similar (in terms of attenuation) to the same beers brewed with MO, the old ale perhaps a hair lower. Both were mashed on the cooler side (around 63-65°C) for 60 minutes, with a 75°C mash out, then fermented at pretty normal ale temps and conditioned in keg for ~4-6 weeks before being carbed and served.
Both have had the perception of more sweetness than I'd expect to get from MO in the same beer. The old ale has a very pronounced toasted brown bread and nutty character to it that's quite reminiscent of melanoidin malt- though I suspect that might be the interplay between the Chev and small amount of amber malt in that beer. For my personal taste, so far I've preferred Chevallier in more heavily hopped beers, though the old ale is pretty young.
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I finally have some time to sum up the brewing process.
My system is a beer in a bag set up: 10g pot with 5500 watt element and screen to keep bag off element. I use Beersmith to determine strike temperature and water volumes. I mash in the 10g pot using a sour vide to hold temperatures. In this situation I bumped Chevallier malt up to 6lbs from above recipe and step mashed @ 125f/52c for 15min, 145f/63c for 45min and 160f/71c for 40min. With the 5500 watt element the transitions are quick.
Fermentation was in a carboy @ 66f/19c for a several weeks; OG 1.041 with FG 1.011; 3.9% abv
Post fermentation beer had a nice Taste. Beer transferred to corny with finings and 1.3oz dextrose. I’ll keep at 66f/19c for a couple weeks then condition for at least 6 weeks @ 45f/7c.
thanks all for your thought. Early April for taste wrap up.
My system is a beer in a bag set up: 10g pot with 5500 watt element and screen to keep bag off element. I use Beersmith to determine strike temperature and water volumes. I mash in the 10g pot using a sour vide to hold temperatures. In this situation I bumped Chevallier malt up to 6lbs from above recipe and step mashed @ 125f/52c for 15min, 145f/63c for 45min and 160f/71c for 40min. With the 5500 watt element the transitions are quick.
Fermentation was in a carboy @ 66f/19c for a several weeks; OG 1.041 with FG 1.011; 3.9% abv
Post fermentation beer had a nice Taste. Beer transferred to corny with finings and 1.3oz dextrose. I’ll keep at 66f/19c for a couple weeks then condition for at least 6 weeks @ 45f/7c.
thanks all for your thought. Early April for taste wrap up.
I just tossed another one into the fermenter too. The other chevalier bitter I had, that I reported wasn't great initially, turned into a great bitter after about 1 month in the keg. It was still unique but the harsh graininess mellowed significantly with time. In fact the keg kicked much too fast sadly enough.
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I’m thinking that there‘s a pipeline requirement for this malt. English IPA will be my next “Chevallier“ brew.
I've brewed a bitter with it last weekend. Invert sugar, wheat malt chevallier and a dash of carafa spezial 2. 3 step mash, 57, 63, 72 c.
Thanks to this thread I've created a couple of customized hochkurz mash schedules to Beersmith. I wasn't expecting to find a different way of mashing when I started following this thread but you never know where you will learn something new. Thanks!
Thanks to the tips on this tread, I adjusted my mash schedule for a Best Bitter I made last week that used a blend of Chevallier and Warminster Floor Malted Maris Otter. Hochkurz mash 122F for 10, 144F for 40, 158F for 40, 168 mash out and a 90 minute boil. Recipe was basically the Brewing Classic Styles one, but with this two malts as a sub. Kegged it last night, color looks great, tastes and smells great. It's one of my entries for Nationals, so let's see how it does.
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I bottled a bitter yesterday, that I brewed last week. I can confirm the strong grainyness of the Chevallier malt, I do not remeber getting this the first time I have used it.
This is the type of grainyness that needs to be aged out because it is a bit unpleasant. This will change in one or two months and will result in a very good bitter.
Also, my attenuation was lower than expected (70%, although there was invert sugar involved in the recipe, plus step mash). Chevallier eats ibus, I forgot that, should have added 20% more hops than calculated to compensate for this. Forgot it, will be still a good beer.
I have made myself a watery extract from carafa spezial 2, 100g carafa, 1000g water, steeped for about 20 minutes at 65 C and then sanitised at 75 C for a few minutes. I prefilled some of the bottles about 1/3 with this black extract and topped up with the bitter. This should create a nice dark mild. I did the same with plain water with a few bottles, just to see if it is possible to get a nice table bitter this way.
Maybe next time I brew a strong ale and dilute it down when bottling to get dark milds and normal bitters as well this way. Let`s see! Maybe I will be facing an oxidized mess when trying? Who knows, bottle conditioning should have helped here, but was it enoug? Let's see.
This is the type of grainyness that needs to be aged out because it is a bit unpleasant. This will change in one or two months and will result in a very good bitter.
Also, my attenuation was lower than expected (70%, although there was invert sugar involved in the recipe, plus step mash). Chevallier eats ibus, I forgot that, should have added 20% more hops than calculated to compensate for this. Forgot it, will be still a good beer.
I have made myself a watery extract from carafa spezial 2, 100g carafa, 1000g water, steeped for about 20 minutes at 65 C and then sanitised at 75 C for a few minutes. I prefilled some of the bottles about 1/3 with this black extract and topped up with the bitter. This should create a nice dark mild. I did the same with plain water with a few bottles, just to see if it is possible to get a nice table bitter this way.
Maybe next time I brew a strong ale and dilute it down when bottling to get dark milds and normal bitters as well this way. Let`s see! Maybe I will be facing an oxidized mess when trying? Who knows, bottle conditioning should have helped here, but was it enoug? Let's see.
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On this recent batch I brewed with Chevallier, med crystal and DRC the graininess is much less noticeable even very young, brewed on the 18th and it's the 23rd today. A couple of changes I made this time were the mash schedule, I did 62c for 30 min, 68c for 30 min and a mashout 78c for 5 min.
After cooling I also let it sit for an hour to drop out all the trub and only transferred clear wort.
Funny enough it's very similar to Old Speckled Hen, which oddly enough I was trying to find a recipe to. I think the one difference for next time would be to drop fuggles and only use EKG for the later additions.
After cooling I also let it sit for an hour to drop out all the trub and only transferred clear wort.
Funny enough it's very similar to Old Speckled Hen, which oddly enough I was trying to find a recipe to. I think the one difference for next time would be to drop fuggles and only use EKG for the later additions.
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Small change in plans; my son’s visiting in April and he wants to flip kegs. He got a maris otter based bitters keg from us over the holidays. He brews but work has him backed up. So last week I brewed another chevallier based bitters for him! I found an English ipa recipe in Ron Pattinson’s blog, 1897 Fullers IPA. It’s perfect.
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