Creating an NA (Or...how I neutered my beer)

[Vale71]

Did you leave out fermentation on purpose?

 

[tahoehomebrewer]

Yes. No fermentation required for this idea. Avoiding all alcohol production. All about targeting flavor and mouthfeel.

 

[tahoehomebrewer]

Trying to keep the process as simple as possible. The boil off method to reduce alcohol content seems unreliable at best, it’s time consuming and doesn’t seem to jive with hoppy styles where introducing more oxygen can have such a negative affect.

 

[Vale71]

So your plan is not to make NA beer but a malt drink?

 

[bracconiere]

I like beer but don't always want to get drunk,

drink slower.....i can drink all day and not blow over a 0.06BAC......

 

[tahoehomebrewer]

So your plan is not to make NA beer but a malt drink?

Basically. Not really concerned with the semantics, but having a keg full of something that tastes like (good, probably not great, but better than commercial NA) beer without any alcohol that is easy to make.

 

[tahoehomebrewer]

drink slower.....i can drink all day and not blow over a 0.06BAC......

I love drinking beer all day. Love Homebrewing. But I’ve got many compelling reasons not to have alcohol in my system all day long. I’m finding that I love the taste of beer much more than the alcohol itself so experimenting with NA seemed like a worthwhile endeavor. Just not one that I would want be too time consuming.
...not all of us have your indestructible liver, lol!

 

[bracconiere]

I love drinking beer all day. Love Homebrewing. But I’ve got many compelling reasons not to have alcohol in my system all day long. I’m finding that I love the taste of beer much more than the alcohol itself so experimenting with NA seemed like a worthwhile endeavor. Just not one that I would want be too time consuming.
...not all of us have your indestructible liver, lol!

when i'm working i drink kombucha.....close as i can get to NA beer! (10 gallons batches, i wish i had a pic of the scobys i grew! they were the size of pizza stones....lol...i'd drink a 96oz bottle during the work day! great times!)


edit: and when i make otherthings the NA beer smells foul....goes straight down the drain.....

 

[dnr]

I am a bit of a sipper. If it's in my hand, I'm sipping. And then it's gone. This is why I'm not a fan of liquor. I just keep sipping.
I learned I needed a water, a soda, a beer and a whiskey. That way I was always sipping.
My wife balls it my sippy cup syndrome.
Sip, sip.

 

[Vale71]

Basically. Not really concerned with the semantics, but having a keg full of something that tastes like (good, probably not great, but better than commercial NA) beer without any alcohol that is easy to make.

It's not semantics, malt drink tastes not even remotely like beer, NA or otherwise. One more issue you'll be confronted with is that malt drink is a breeding ground for all sorts of spoilage organisms. Without preservatives or pasteurization you'll have to drink it all rather quickly, like in a few days tops.

 

[tahoehomebrewer]

It's not semantics, malt drink tastes not even remotely like beer, NA or otherwise. One more issue you'll be confronted with is that malt drink is a breeding ground for all sorts of spoilage organisms. Without preservatives or pasteurization you'll have to drink it all rather quickly, like in a few days tops.

Right on. I haven’t tried it before so that’s why I was throwing it out to the community here. Sorry if my comment came of as snippy, I appreciate the input! I would briefly boil the wort then chill and transfer directly to a keg so I would think spoilage risk would be minimal but not sure what to expect flavor wise from a highly hopped malt drink. That’s why I was trying to look at ingredients that might mimic the flavor of a light clean fermented beer. Don’t know though, new territory for me. Once I brew it up I’ll report back on how it turns out.

 

[Vale71]

AFAIK malt drink is not hopped. If you've ever tasted hopped wort before pitching it really does not taste that great so you're probably better off not adding any hops, not even aroma hops. As for shelf life even if it's boiled and transferred hot to a keg wort (or any high sugar content drink) is unsafe without preservatives or other tricks such as high temperature canning. Worst case botulism could develop and you definitely don't want to end up drinking that!

 

[tahoehomebrewer]

AFAIK malt drink is not hopped. If you've ever tasted hopped wort before pitching it really does not taste that great so you're probably better off not adding any hops, not even aroma hops. As for shelf life even if it's boiled and transferred hot to a keg wort (or any high sugar content drink) is unsafe without preservatives or other tricks such as high temperature canning. Worst case botulism could develop and you definitely don't want to end up drinking that!

Wouldn’t spoilage/botulism risk of boiled and quickly (Cobra IC) chilled hoppy malt brew be similar to that of homemade sodas, root beer, etc.? Which doesn’t seem to be of great concern from what I’ve read thus far. But I agree, definitely want to avoid botulism, lol.

I have tasted the OG sample many times when brewing and the sweetness would of course mute other flavors but this would only have one pound of DME and some steeping grains, 1.024 gravity, so might that balance out the sweet with the hop flavor if the water is adjusted to give it a crisper, drier feel? Or no?

 

[Vale71]

To be safe against botulism you have to have a PH below 4.6 if I recall correctly. Beer achieves that through fermentation alone wereas wort PH lies between 5.4 and 5.0. The soft drinks you mentioned all have food-grade acid (usually ortophosphoric) added to achieve a PH low enough to be safe against most spoilage organisms. They're also aseptically filled or have Velcorin added both of which are out of the reach of homebrewers.
Unfermented and non-acidified wort would still be dangerous even if boiled unless it's autoclaved at a temperature of 121°C like with canned preserves.

 

[tahoehomebrewer]

To be safe against botulism you have to have a PH below 4.6 if I recall correctly. Beer achieves that through fermentation alone wereas wort PH lies between 5.4 and 5.0. The soft drinks you mentioned all have food-grade acid (usually ortophosphoric) added to achieve a PH low enough to be safe against most spoilage organisms. They're also aseptically filled or have Velcorin added both of which are out of the reach of homebrewers.
Unfermented and non-acidified wort would still be dangerous even if boiled unless it's autoclaved at a temperature of 121°C like with canned preserves.

Good to know. I’ll have to look more into the ph part of the equation.
Now I’m curious how that is addressed with home brewed sodas since in the small amount I’ve read I haven’t seen any talk about ph or acid additions.

 

[Vale71]

Sorry, can't help you there. I have an allergy to anything not containing alcohol...

 

[Early8]

I just watched a webinar from BSG on the subject of SafBrew LA-01. I would like to find some to try. That said, I do find the necessity to pasteurize it somewhat daunting. Has anyone here tried it yet?

 

[andrewmaixner]

If you want to pasteurize at home, look up some tutorials on home cider pasteurization, immersing sealed bottles in hot water of known (and potentially ramped) temperature. An electric brew kettle with false bottom, or a cooler with a sous vide heater, work great. Use HEAVY bottles (like the super-heavy cork-or-cap Belgian bottles). wear safety glasses and gloves. Keep additional identical open bottles with the same temperature and volume of water, that you can monitor the internal temperature of each pasteurization batch.

 

[Early8]

Good idea! Thanks. Ideally I would like to keg it, but I guess I need to prove the concept first. Also, in kegging it I would further reduce the alcohol content by force carbonating it.

I have yet to find a source for the new yeast.