Countertop Brutus 20

[iijakii]

I'd say it's cause he recirculates and has a false bottom (not a braid) so he doesn't have to worry about channeling, so the hose works fine.

 

[chaserchap]

If you have 2 inches of water over the grain bed there's no reason you'd be getting channeling. Worst case the hose may make a divot on the surface due to water flow, if you keep that flow down there shouldn't even be that.

 

[DarkBrood]

If you have 2 inches of water over the grain bed there's no reason you'd be getting channeling. Worst case the hose may make a divot on the surface due to water flow, if you keep that flow down there shouldn't even be that.

Either way, if he cuts the grain bed first with a checkerboard pattern, channeling possibilities are drastically reduced, as the fluid is granted "paths of least resistance" to spread across the surface of the grain bed before moving downwards through it...run some fluid dynamics calcs on it and you'll be amazed at the distribution and reduced pressure on the grain bed from some simple grooves in the top 1/2".

 

[borny]

I fell in love with this system when the issue came out, but have since missed place the issue.


I must've missed it, but what size batches is the original design set up to do?

Edit*** I found it, 4.5-5 gallons pre boil volume. Very cool system!

 

[Liquidicem]

I'm looking to put together a replica of this system and want to make sure I have the wiring correct. Can someone take a look at this wiring diagram and let me know if anything looks incorrect? Thanks for the awesome system idea!

 

[jkarp]

Looks good Liquidicem. Just double-check the paperwork on the actual combo switches you buy. I've seen some that have slightly different wiring needs. There should always be instructions on how to set the switch to drive the outlet.

 

[MaltyHops]

Hi Jeff and All,

Finished my version not long ago after starting with collecting and
ordering parts over a year ago after seeing the BYO article.

The major difference in my version is use of a plate chiller instead
of an IC. I have a fairly detailed build log in THIS article for anyone
interested (has heaps more photos - though you have to be a member
of www.aussiehomebrewer.com in order to access the article).

Have lots of questions needing answers to of course and still in the
stage of learning how to use my system - have done two brews on
it so far and both really used a kind of batch sparging rather than
recirculation.

To address the efficiency issues with a CRDFM system, I'm playing
with draining off a few quarts of the really high gravity first runnings
before recirculating the sparge (the first runnings get added to the
boil when sparging is done). The idea is that recirculating with lower
gravity runnings to sparge would draw out more sugars - would be
good if I can get this technique to work.

Cheers,
Tom.

 

[jkarp]

Awesome setup!

 

[MaltyHops]

Thank you, Jeff - and thank you for the providing original inspiration.

 

[Budzu]

Another one here JKarp, I couldn't resist, its such a cool design, very portable and super fun to brew on!

Here's my thread: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/countertop-brutus-budzu-style-317200/

 

[rmmepv]

Jeff,

Thanks for the guide and personal attention to this long-running thread. I know you posted a "typical" brew day in a post many moons ago, but could you give a couple of recipe examples and walk through the process step-by-step? Folks new to brewing (like myself) would benefit, especially as we learn how to scale 5 gallon recipes down to 3 or 3.5 gallons.

I was inspired to put a system together based on your design and am very happy with it so far, but have only used it twice (once for an extract recipe and once for an all grain recipe). The latter was a challenge because I jumped the gun and bought the ingredients for a 5 gallon recipe (milled and mixed at the local store), so couldn't easily cut it down. Worked out pretty well anyway, I just had to add water as the boil proceeded to avoid over-filling my boiler/kettle.

Here are a few picks of my system:

Oracle, are you using an electric turkey fryer? I saw one on CL and thought about picking one up. What do you think about it? Thanks!

 

[jkarp]

Nice setup Budzu!

 

[Oracle]

rmmepv,

To be honest, I am using a used Turkey Fryer that I modified for the purpose. More or less like this one:
Masterbuilt Turkey Fryer

I tried to cut a hole in the glass lid and it shattered. Had to substitute an aluminum lid from a cheap aluminum pot. The temperature controller was bad, so I bypassed the controller and wired it directly. Now I use a customized temperature controller made using a used (eBay again) Eurotherm PID 2132 switching a solid state relay (eBay, natch). Works pretty well. I replaced the spigot with an elbow joint so I could add the sight/level gauge. I also drilled a hole in the bottom and ran a copper tube out to the front with a valve on the end. I probably spent more time and money trying to cobble this turkey fryer/brew kettle beast together than if I had gone to one of the local homebrew shops and bought one off the shelf. Oh well, it works. My one suggestion is whichever way you go, I would insulate the boiler/kettle. Mine has a 1600 watt electrical heating element in it and it works much better since I added several layers of insulation (like Jeff describes in the thread). I just wrapped more on mine. You just can't see it because of the outer shell of the turkey fryer.
Best of luck. My last batch of beer with this system was a Rye Saison that turned out pretty well. I am quite happy with this scale system that Jeff originally described.

 

[DustBow]

I'm on my way to building a 5 gallon batch version of this, puttiong control panel/box together soon. Currently I'm using the priciples of this design but with my propane burner in the garage.

Question for those with this build: How fast do you recirculate the mash during the "sparge" or the full volume recirculation?

I'm guessing much faster than fly sparging (obviously) but not running the pump wide open either.

I've done 2 batches this way and seemed to have lower effeciency both times (less than 70%) - wondering if I'm going too fast/too slow, not long enough, etc.
Might just be growing pains learning a new system but I'm still curious.

thanks

 

[jfkriege]

I recirculate fairly slowly; perhaps 1 quart per minute through a keggle false bottom.

One thing I have found with the recirculating no-sparge system is that crush on the grain matters far more. I started malt conditioning and crushing finer and got far closer to the theoretical efficiency of the system. I am getting about 97% conversion efficiency which is driven by the crush, and then lauter efficiency is governed by system losses and the pre-boil gravity of the beer. A combination of conversion and lauter efficiency gives you your brewhouse efficiency. Braukaiser has a great write up on this if you are interested.

Joshua

 

[Bonwit]

I recirculate fairly slowly; perhaps 1 quart per minute through a keggle false bottom.

One thing I have found with the recirculating no-sparge system is that crush on the grain matters far more. I started malt conditioning and crushing finer and got far closer to the theoretical efficiency of the system. I am getting about 97% conversion efficiency which is driven by the crush, and then lauter efficiency is governed by system losses and the pre-boil gravity of the beer. A combination of conversion and lauter efficiency gives you your brewhouse efficiency. Braukaiser has a great write up on this if you are interested.

Joshua

Interesting. I've always kind of suspected this, but have always gone with the standard crush from my HBS. I've been wanting to buy my own crusher so I can have better control over this process. Can you give me some guidance on how best to set up a roller mill for this finer crush?

I'm using a PhillsPhalse Bottom in my cooler and a rather thin mash. Are stuck mashes a concern with a finer crush?

Thanks!

 

[ToddPEI]

I was wondering, using the CB20 is it possible to do parti-gyle batches? or are most of the sugars extracted after the recirculation period?

Either way, I will be building this system in the fall.

 

[jkarp]

Don't see why not ToddPEI. I'd draw off 1st runnings and then recirculate before 2nd runnings.

 

[jrodskreet]

nice setup

 

[timpoulsen]

OK, I'm new to grain brewing. Never have done it yet. Like to build this system. I have a dumb question but do you ever have clogging of hops in the lines and pump when pumping from the kettle through the chiller? Also, do you have to run your cooled wort from the brew pot through some kind of strainer into your fermenter? How long do you leave the cooled wort in the kettle to settle all the particulates prior to draining? Would be nice to see some recipes that have been used in this exact same design. I really don't understand a lot of the technical aspects of formulation, efficiancy and whatever, but I can easily follow a recipe and time table to make a brew. I have only done extracts on the stove and thought they all were good until I had a bottle of a home brewed all grain. Just a dumb retired fireman and haven't found a beer I didn't like.

 

[MaltyHops]

I think if you use an immersion chiller as per Jeff's original
design then you probably wont have problems with hops
clogging - maybe unles you're using whole hop flowers, in
which case you could attach some kind of screen to the
kettle outlet inside the kettle.

I use a plate chiller on my system (p.55 of this thread) and
started to get some blockage from hot break proteins the
last time I brewed so plan to modify my process a little for
next brew.

Once I start the boil after mashing, I'm going to connect my
system with p-chiller and boil for ~15mins to sterilise, then
disconnect the p-chiller from the system for the rest of the
boil. At boil end, I'll just leave the wort for a while to drop in
temperature some before whirlpooling to get the hot break
and 60min hops to drop to the middle of the kettle.

Then I 'll reconnect the p-chiller and proceed as before and
hopefully avoid any chiller blockages. I'd have to adjust hop
scheduling to allow for this change.

 

[jkarp]

OK, I'm new to grain brewing. Never have done it yet. Like to build this system. I have a dumb question but do you ever have clogging of hops in the lines and pump when pumping from the kettle through the chiller? Also, do you have to run your cooled wort from the brew pot through some kind of strainer into your fermenter? How long do you leave the cooled wort in the kettle to settle all the particulates prior to draining? Would be nice to see some recipes that have been used in this exact same design. I really don't understand a lot of the technical aspects of formulation, efficiancy and whatever, but I can easily follow a recipe and time table to make a brew. I have only done extracts on the stove and thought they all were good until I had a bottle of a home brewed all grain. Just a dumb retired fireman and haven't found a beer I didn't like.

I've never had a problem with March pumps passing pellet hops - even when brewing a Pliny clone.

Do you like black IPAs? Here's my recipe along with a time table. I've brewed this several times - it's my favorite recipe.

IPA Noir (4gal)
OG: 1.072, IBU: 85, SRM: 29

8lbs Maris Otter
2lbs Munich I
0.5lbs Carafa III
0.5lbs Carahell
1oz 14% Magnum (or other clean bittering hop) - first wort hop
1oz 5.5% Cascade - 30 mins
1oz 5.5% Cascade - 15 mins
2oz 5.5% Cascade - 5 day dry-hop
Safale S-04 or S-05 yeast
65F ferment for 7 days, 5 day dry-hop at 68F

1. Heat 5.75 gal of water to 162F in the kettle. As temp approaches, begin recirculation to pre-heat the mash tun.
2. Once the strike temp is reached, close mash tun valve and allow it to fill to 4 gal. Shut off pump. Dough in your grains and stir thoroughly. Mash temp should be 150-152F. Close up the mash tun and wait 75 min.
3. With about 10 min left in the mash, heat the remainder of the water to 170F.
4. Once mash is complete, pull the mash return hose off the kettle and run a couple quarts of wort out of the mash tun into a bowl to set the grain bed. Return this wort to the top of the mash tun.
5. Re-plumb the return hose and begin a slow system recirculation to bring the mash to mashout temp. You'll need to adjust the pump output and mash tun valves to reach a balance of flow. You're looking for no more than a quart or two of flow per minute. Recirculate for at least 30 minutes. Do not wander too far from the system at this point! If the mash tun stops flowing for any reason, the pump will draw off all the wort from the kettle, and the element will burn out (a bad brew day).
6. Shut off pump and allow all wort to flow to kettle. Add first wort hops to the kettle and set the PID to manual mode, 100% to begin the boil. Remove kettle lid, of course.
7. Once all the wort runs out of the mash tun, I give it a gentle tip to run off the dead space wort under my false bottom. Depends on your system's design. There should be about 4.5 gallons in the kettle pre-boil.
8. Continue the boil for 60 min, adding hops at the times specified. Throttle back the PID if necessary.
9. With 10 min left in the boil, drop the pump output hose into the kettle and fire up the pump to recirculate boiling wort through the pump & chiller to sanitize. Add any fining agents you may use at this time too. Plumb up the chilling water source.
10. After the boil is complete, kill the element power, put kettle lid back on and plumb pump output hose to it. My hose inside the kettle lid has a 90 deg brass nipple on it so the return wort whirlpools in the kettle.
11. Recirculate wort at full speed while running chiller water. Continue to recirculate until PID shows temp under 65F. Shut off pump and chiller water. Let wort rest covered in kettle for at least 30 minutes. Good time to clean mash tun, prep fermenter, etc.
12. To drive remaining wort out of the chiller / pump, you can blow into the pump output hose, pushing the wort back into the kettle, or you can carefully raise the pump / chiller bucket above the kettle and let gravity do the work. Close the kettle valve to keep the wort from flowing back. Should be about 4 gal of finished wort.
13. Remove input hose from pump / chiller bucket and run the wort into your fermenter. There should be at least 3.5 gal of finished wort in the fermenter after leaving behind the kettle trub.

Brewday time summary:
Heat strike water: 45 min
Mash: 75 min
Mashout: 30 min
Boil: 60 min
Chill: ~20 min (varies on water temp)
Rest: 30 min

 

[timpoulsen]

LOVE Black IPA. Had a DogZilla from some brewery in Idaho. Thanks for the reply. Definately will be one of my first attempts. Gathering parts now and hope to smell up the kitchen in about a month.

 

[dflipse]

OK, I'm new to grain brewing. Never have done it yet. Like to build this system. I have a dumb question but do you ever have clogging of hops in the lines and pump when pumping from the kettle through the chiller? Also, do you have to run your cooled wort from the brew pot through some kind of strainer into your fermenter? How long do you leave the cooled wort in the kettle to settle all the particulates prior to draining? Would be nice to see some recipes that have been used in this exact same design. I really don't understand a lot of the technical aspects of formulation, efficiancy and whatever, but I can easily follow a recipe and time table to make a brew. I have only done extracts on the stove and thought they all were good until I had a bottle of a home brewed all grain. Just a dumb retired fireman and haven't found a beer I didn't like.

No dumb questions in there. Replying to a few of the points-
Hops don't tend to clog pumps and lines. Hops and grains will both clog filters in the wrong situations. I drop my hops into cheap filter bags, which allows them plenty of exposure to the wort but minimizes the mess a bit.

By all means go with the Countertop Brutus if you're convince that's how you want to go (I love my system) but I felt it was really helpful to do my first few all grain batches in a system where I wasn't worried so much about pumps and figuring out new equipment. The Stovetop All-Grain Brewing thread can usually be done almost entirely with things you have on hand.

As far as what ends up in the fermenter - if you minimize most of the gunk (let it settle for a few minutes, then pump/dump/siphon out) anything that does make it in there will settle if you give it adequate time after fermentation.

Good luck with everything.

 

[timpoulsen]

No dumb questions in there. Replying to a few of the points-
Hops don't tend to clog pumps and lines. Hops and grains will both clog filters in the wrong situations. I drop my hops into cheap filter bags, which allows them plenty of exposure to the wort but minimizes the mess a bit.

By all means go with the Countertop Brutus if you're convince that's how you want to go (I love my system) but I felt it was really helpful to do my first few all grain batches in a system where I wasn't worried so much about pumps and figuring out new equipment. The Stovetop All-Grain Brewing thread can usually be done almost entirely with things you have on hand.

As far as what ends up in the fermenter - if you minimize most of the gunk (let it settle for a few minutes, then pump/dump/siphon out) anything that does make it in there will settle if you give it adequate time after fermentation.

Good luck with everything.

Thanks dflipse, nice info. I've decided to go Jay's route since it's an easy build an I'm an electrical geek. Any info I get from you guys is very much appreciated. Once I get all the parts, looks like a friday build, saturday tweek and a sunday brew. I like the smaller volume and kitchen counter footspace. Brewing a bit over a case a day is my style and ability to have a variety in the fermenters. My peeps are going to be some very happy dudes. I haven't taken the time to find out what the hell you guys are talking about with efficiency and other numbers I've seen. I just want to have something to quaff down and share. Give me some recipes and timetables and I'll be one happy guy. I'm sure I'll catch up to speed on the technicalities as time goes on.

 

[ToddPEI]

I've been hearing a lot of people grumbling about their pumps having problems to "prime" on other threads. I've never used a pump while brewing, so was wondering what caused that, is it a lack of head pressure on the pump and it can't push the liquid? If thats the case, how does the countertop system work around this problem since the liquid is at the same hight as the pump?

Also, I stumbled on this pump: http://greatbreweh.com/Beer_Pump.html
Since it seems to be cheaper than the march pumps, I was wondering about the quality, has anyone tried it on this system?

 

[jkarp]

As long as the water level is higher than the pump (and it should be if the pump is at the bottom of the bucket), the pump will fill on its own if you give it a moment. Then it's essentially self-primed. Also, because liquid is never removed from the pump during a CB20 brewing session, it never loses prime.

 

[adamjab19]

I read through half the thread. I have one buring question my infantile mind can not figure out:

What does the PID do? Does it turn off the element when the mash in temp is hit? Does it turn on the element when the temp gets too low during recirculation?

 

[jkarp]

I read through half the thread. I have one buring question my infantile mind can not figure out:

What does the PID do? Does it turn off the element when the mash in temp is hit? Does it turn on the element when the temp gets too low during recirculation?

It can do all of the above. Wikipedia has a good article on PIDs.

 

[adamjab19]

It can do all of the above. Wikipedia has a good article on PIDs.

Thanks! I am happy with my brew set up now but over the next 5-8 years I definitely want to make it more compact and "automated".