Saison Cottage House Saison

[SirHC_]

This looks excellent, definitely adding to the list. What would anyone think of using T58 instead?

 

[azscoob]

Isn’t a T58 a helicopter engine??

 

[Shenanigans]

This looks excellent, definitely adding to the list. What would anyone think of using T58 instead?

I only used it once for a witbier about 5 years ago. Turned out OK but if you are wanting the convenience of a dry yeast Belle Saison is much better. If you already have a pack of T58 and want to use it up then I think it would work; just be careful not to ferment at too high a temperature as it can get peppery. I'd actually suggest to leave the teaspoon of pepper out of the recipe. Also keep in mind that it doesn't attenuate as high as a Saison yeast so it might turn out good but wouldn't be as dry a typical Saison.
Maybe you could dry it out a bit by mashing low and/or subbing some of the pilsner malt with some table sugar.

There's a thread on here that might be of interest, didn't read it all myself yet.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/saison-with-safbrew-t58.631580/

 

[EdMerican]

This looks excellent, definitely adding to the list. What would anyone think of using T58 instead?

I brew a saison with pepper, chamomile and honey using t58 and I've taken it to several festivals. People love it or hate it. There generally is no in between. But the people who love it ask where they can buy it, and I've even had a couple people offer to help with startup capital if I were to go pro, based on that beer. I say go for it. I start it at 70* for a few days then ramp it up to 80 or a little higher for a few days after that, then bring it back down to 65 or so until I'm ready to keg or bottle it. It's ready to package in a couple weeks. YMMV, but I like it.

 

[00Seven]

What target water profile should I shoot for? Starting with RO water. Thanks.

 

[Oldskewl]

I did a 75/75/75 ppm and it turned out very nice.

 

[wetmk]

I only used it once for a witbier about 5 years ago. Turned out OK but if you are wanting the convenience of a dry yeast Belle Saison is much better. If you already have a pack of T58 and want to use it up then I think it would work; just be careful not to ferment at too high a temperature as it can get peppery. I'd actually suggest to leave the teaspoon of pepper out of the recipe. Also keep in mind that it doesn't attenuate as high as a Saison yeast so it might turn out good but wouldn't be as dry a typical Saison.
Maybe you could dry it out a bit by mashing low and/or subbing some of the pilsner malt with some table sugar.

There's a thread on here that might be of interest, didn't read it all myself yet.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/saison-with-safbrew-t58.631580/

Belle Saison is one of my most used yeasts. I'm a long time brewer living in southern NY who brews often. I have space for minimal cooling ability. With the ambient temperature in my lower level during summer being 70, I use predominantly Belgian yeasts. While I use others, Belle Saison has become a workhorse for me. Very clean at 70, which I like.

 

[ratinator]

This is what I did for an extract batch, its fermenting..will report back with pics when it's done:

Partial Mash - 60mins at 152F:
.5lb flaked oats
.5lb caramunich
1lb 2-row pale malt

5lb pilsen light LME
1.75lb wheat DME (used the other .25lb to make a starter)

.83lb orange blossom honey (supermarket only had in this size, would have used full lb)

1oz sorachi ace @45mins
1oz styrian golding @15mins
1oz sorachi ace @5mins
1.5tsp pepper @5mins

#3711 yeast

 

[JonM]

Looking forward to tapping my most recent batch of this tonight!

 

[ChuckS1]

One week in for my 6 gallon batch. Used the recipe as written except that I substituted WLP565 for the 3711 and corn sugar for the honey. Pitched a 1.6L starter at 62F and open fermented for the first three days at 65F. Then I took it out of my fermentation chamber and continued to let it open ferment on its own in my insulated garage. Garage temps have been in the high 70s at night to mid 80s during the day. This morning, after four days, the temp on the thermometer in the thermowell is 78F and hydrometer reading is 1.008. So, knock on wood, it looks like I didn't experience the 1.030 stall that some have reported with the DuPont strain. Thanks to Drew Beechum at Maltose Falcons for his advice on brewing saisons for the tips on the fermentation schedule and how to open ferment.

 

[Rhaop]

Rebrewed similar recipe but subbed in 3 pounds of rye

Tried the mangrove Jack’s french saison yeast at 80*F + and doesn’t quite have the character I enjoyed from wlp565

One of these days I’ll try 3711

 

[Jbrew]

I did this recipe about a year back. It came out a bit hot. Almost had a similar taste to olde english. My ferment temps were uncontrolled, could this attribute to the high alcohol bite? Edit: I remember i didnt make a starter either, just pitched the 3711 right in. Think that's more likely the cause or the alcohol bite?

Anyhow planning to rebrew this, been doing a lot of lower gravity beers and im looking for something a bit stronger for the kegerator like this or another belgian beer. I too was wondering about the t58 or belle saison yeast, has anyone had good results with this particular recipe with the dry yeasts?
Thanks

 

[Dog House Brew]

I’ve never had a dry I like as well as 565 or Rustic. I’ve never used 3711.

 

[Brunsky]

Brewed it this summer, scaled to a 4 gal batch (to ferment in a 5 gal carboy). I left out the honey and pepper and fermented with Belle Saison at 68 for 3 days, then ramped up to 85 for three weeks, brought it back down to 70 before bottling. Primed for 3 vols. It finished at a bone-dry 1.000. Crisp, clean, surprisingly clear, and amazingly refreshing with the rockiest white head I've ever seen.

 

[NobleNewt]

I brewed a variant of this recipe yesterday. For a 3.5 gallon batch, I used the same grain bill but got the OG down to around 1.040 and used the hop additions of the Jester King Noble King recipe. Didn't add any pepper or other spices, but did add some honey at flame out. Using Wyeast 3711 which is already bubbling away like a champ after 24 hours. Looking forward to this one for sure!

 

[nyer]

I am brewing this tomorrow and I use distilled water. I dont have time to read this whole thread, can anyone tell what water profile they like with this one? I use brewers friend for calculations and may just use the balanced or balanced 2 profile.

 

[mullimat]

Brewing this right now but putting a little twist on it. I plan on dry hopping with some Rosemary. Using about 10g of rosemary after about 10 days in the fermenter. Hopefully turns out great!

 

[teeWRX]

Going to try this one out at some point this summer, LHBS didn't have CaraMunich though. I have "Extra light Crystal - 13-17 Lov" and "Medium Crystal - 60 Lov," and some Munich Light/10 at my disposal.Thoughts on which would make the best substitute, or some combination?

 

[brewbama]

Based on an interesting article in Brew Your Own back in October of 2013 regarding Crystal Malt versus Caramel Malt, Weyermann makes CaraMunich and CaraVienna malt by creating Kilned Caramel Malts–half ends up being Crystal Malt and the other half is Munich or Vienna (depending on temperatures). Based on this, I take CaraMunich is a 50/50 mix, so I’d mix my own.

 

[Shenanigans]

There is Caramunich I, II and III. Normally if the number is not mentioned then it is understood to be Caramunich II.

The Lovibond values are in the second column for each type so you can match it to other crystal malts:

 

[teeWRX]

There is Caramunich I, II and III. Normally if the number is not mentioned then it is understood to be Caramunich II.

The Lovibond values are in the second column for each type so you can match it to other crystal malts:

View attachment 633969

This is exactly what I needed, cheers! I'm reading CaraMunich imparts some biscuit character that crystal 60 doesn't? Maybe i'll try some combo of Crystal 60 and Biscuit malt to (forgot to mention I have some of that also on hand). To mimic the 0.5lb CaraMunich.

 

[tellyho]

I did this recipe about a year back. It came out a bit hot. Almost had a similar taste to olde english. My ferment temps were uncontrolled, could this attribute to the high alcohol bite? Edit: I remember i didnt make a starter either, just pitched the 3711 right in. Think that's more likely the cause or the alcohol bite?

Anyhow planning to rebrew this, been doing a lot of lower gravity beers and im looking for something a bit stronger for the kegerator like this or another belgian beer. I too was wondering about the t58 or belle saison yeast, has anyone had good results with this particular recipe with the dry yeasts?
Thanks

I generally brew this with t58 these days. It's my favorite "saison" yeast. Not as dry as 3711.

 

[tellyho]

Rebrew today.

 

[Shenanigans]

Think I’ll brew this one again.

Last time I use Belle Saison but didn’t know anything about the problems with var. diastaticus strains and ended up with gushers even though it finished at 1.002 and gave constant reading for a week before bottling.

I have another pack of Belle Saison that is almost expired so I will give it another go but bulk age it in a carboy for at least 3 months before bottling.

I can kill a few birds with one stone by using up this yeast and some aging Fuggles and Soarchi Ace.

I’ll add teaspoon of seeds of paradise instead of pepper and standard honey.

Should be ready to drink by Christmas.

BTW anyone got a good water profile for this?

 

[Oldskewl]

Wow! I am surprised you had gushers with an FG that low. I used 3711 when I brewed this and have been fighting gushers with every beer I have bottled since. I just cant seem to get that STA-1 gene out of my system. The only thing I have not went over the top on was my starter flask. Otherwise I have replaced tubing, pbw'd everything, star san'd everything, even boiled fittings and valves.

As far as water profile I would target a Yellow Balanced profile. PH in the 5.2-5.4 range and Sulfate and Chloride in the 50 range

 

[Shenanigans]

Wow! I am surprised you had gushers with an FG that low. I used 3711 when I brewed this and have been fighting gushers with every beer I have bottled since. I just cant seem to get that STA-1 gene out of my system. The only thing I have not went over the top on was my starter flask. Otherwise I have replaced tubing, pbw'd everything, star san'd everything, even boiled fittings and valves.

As far as water profile I would target a Yellow Balanced profile. PH in the 5.2-5.4 range and Sulfate and Chloride in the 50 range

Thanks for the water suggestion.
I also had problems with gushing of other beers after using Belle Saison.
In the end I soaked everything used on the cold side of my system in a bleach solution at a concentration of 1 tablespoon of bleach to 1 gallon of water for 12 to 36 hours and it seems to have solved the problem.
This time I know at least what to expect so I'll be bleaching everything before using for the next batch.

 

[Oldskewl]

Thanks for the advice! I will give the bleach a try before my next brew. Especially since my last brew was using 3726. If I keg its not as much of an issue. But I have had 3 beers ruined over the last few months that I bottled(a big stout and milk porter and an IPA).

 

[Jordan Logo]

Cottage House Saison

BJCP Style and Style Guidelines:
-------------------------------

16-C Belgian & French Ale, Saison

Min OG: 1.048 Max OG: 1.080
Min IBU: 25 Max IBU: 45
Min Clr: 5 Max Clr: 12 Color in SRM, Lovibond

Recipe Specifics:

Batch Size (Gal): 5.50
Total Grain (Lbs): 12.00
Anticipated OG: 1.062
Anticipated SRM: 7.5
Anticipated IBU: 36.3
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %
Wort Boil Time: 60 Minutes


Grain/Sugars:

8.50 lbs. Pilsner Malt(2-row)
1.50 lbs. White Wheat
0.50 lbs. CaraMunich Malt
0.50 lbs. Flaked Oats
1.00 lbs. Orange Blossom Honey (added with 5 minutes left in the boil)

Do you have your grain bill %s by chance? Also, great recipe! I decided to clarify with gelatin just for presentation.

Do you have any changes you do to this recipe now that its 2020?

 

[Jordan Logo]

I honestly kegged this guy super early, 2 1/2 - 3 weeks fermenting, due to the yeast going mad crazy!

Aroma: Citrusy for sure. Don't really get a lemony scent - I get grapefruit/orange zest. Slight pepper bite - the same "sting" you'd get smelling freshly ground pepper. Light "alcohol" or "boozey" smell.

Head: Thicccccccck 2 finger head - light, fine bubbles.

Color: Bright Gold.

Taste: Here's where it gets weird. At least for me, when I take a normal sip the beer goes down like water - super drinkable. The flavors come in after you've swallowed. The initial tasting notes once swallowed is a punch of citrus - again, more bitter like grapefruit, or an orange peel. "Spicy" from the pepper added. Then a tad bit of malty alcohol flavor towards the end - literally on the cusp of being "too" alcoholic - I figure this as my beer finished around 7.7abv.

All around great beer that will be a staple in my house for the summer. Already sold half my keg and will be brewing this tomorrow to keep up with the demand!

I think this recipe fits the BJCP Style Guidelines to a T. Great Saison recipe to show your buddies what a real Saison should taste like, and while it comes in at 7+abv, making it a "super," I'd still recommend this to anyone trying to get into this style. Hell, it made me buy a pound of EKG and Sorachi Ace for future brews.


Would love to get feedback on those who have brewed this with WLP565.

 

[iduncant]

It's been several years (5 I think) since I did any home brewing. I came back to it just yesterday evening and brewed up this amazing beer. I didn't want quite as much alcohol so I cut the honey in half at the end of the boil and ended up with an OG of 1.053.

Otherwise I followed your recipe to the letter.

Pitched mangrove jack's french saison and am currently following their fermentation guidelines of holding it at between 26 and 32 c. (79 to 90f). It's bubbling away like crazy and smells absolutely heavenly!

I can't wait to get some bottles filled up for the first time in 5 years!