Corn Sugar vs Table Sugar

[rodwha]

I had used table sugar to carbonate for quite some time. A friend of mine suggested using corn sugar instead mostly as he felt it made a difference. He claimed the bubbles were smaller. I'm not sure I care.

My 5 lb bag is getting low and I began to ponder whether or not I care enough to spend a bit more for proper sugar.

Outside of competitions why would one care to spend that much more?

 

[SnakeRidge]

There is no difference. CO2 is CO2. Cane sugar is more fermentable and cheaper

 

[vanishingpint]

I really never noticed the difference .It' a small amount of fermentables. I could be wrong!

 

[rodwha]

I never took the time to notice as I meant to. Ultimately I'm not sure I care enough to be too concerned.

 

[Tinpanharry]

I have used both and notice no difference. I save the money and use table sugar.

 

[ArkotRamathorn]

I use regular cane sugar, I invert it with a little boiling water and acid (lemon juice/cream of tartar whatever I have on hand, all it takes is like, a teaspoon). And this step isnt even 100% required, the low pH of a finished beer will invert the sugars, nevermind the yeast doesn't give a hoot it sees sugar it'll just eat it.

 

[Calder]

There is no difference. CO2 is CO2. Cane sugar is more fermentable and cheaper

There are more fermentables in a pound of table sugar vs corn sugar, but corn sugar is actually fermented quicker than table sugar. Yeast has to break down bonds in sucrose, that are already broken down in dextrose. It is not a problem for the yeast.

I have noticed no difference between the two sugars, except dextrose is a lot more expensive ......... so I use table sugar. No need to invert it.

 

[SnakeRidge]

There are more fermentables in a pound of table sugar vs corn sugar, but corn sugar is actually fermented quicker than table sugar. Yeast has to break down bonds in sucrose, that are already broken down in dextrose. It is not a problem for the yeast.

I have noticed no difference between the two sugars, except dextrose is a lot more expensive ......... so I use table sugar. No need to invert it.

OK so no practical difference

 

[Oberon67]

One of these days I'm going to get a wild hair and use some grape jelly.

 

[BigDog007]

One of these days I'm going to get a wild hair and use some grape jelly.

Maybe some marmalade for a nice citrus finish.

 

[unionrdr]

I've used sucrose, dextrose & combinations of both. Even demerara (raw cane sugar) All produced good results, but dextrose is a bit more readily metabolized by brewing yeasts. I have seen brews where the dextrose gave finer bubbles, but this is not a constant in my experiences. So at this point, I'd have to say it's a matter of degrees.

 

[Oberon67]

Maybe some marmalade for a nice citrus finish.

You know that's really NOT a bad idea.

 

[TheZymurgist]

... corn sugar is actually fermented quicker than table sugar...

I believe this is the whole reason why people suggest corn sugar. One, it supposedly shaves a little time off the wait, two, it's easier for the yeast to consume. Since the yeast is going to be stressed and there will be much less yeast in suspension, the thought is to use something easily fermentable.

Theoretically.

In actuality, the difference isn't near enough to justify the use of corn sugar, since it is so much more expensive, and harder to come by.

 

[bobbrews]

Yeast prefer dextrose (or glucose) as a simpler, easier digestible food source slightly to the more complex sucrose. However, they will eat both and the use of both (within reason) can produce great beers. I doubt you'll notice a difference at all... even when carbing. The smaller bubbles argument is likely something they have heard from the homebrewing community which is not exactly based in truth.

Likely, the use of corn sugar in brewing became popular due to the lower cost. Table sugar (sucrose) is a bit more expensive on average than corn sugar (dextrose) when bought in bulk.

 

[CanAusBrewer]

I have used fruit juice before and the beer turned out great. Beyond that I only use table sugar.

 

[mkyl428]

I used corn sugar the until recently, I switched to table sugar about 3-4 brews ago, and I can tell no difference except in my wallet table sugar is way cheaper so I would say stick with that....I plan to....

 

[unionrdr]

In my case, the bubble size was an observation & not passed-on here-say. But, as I said earlier, it's not a constant.

 

[homebrewdad]

I'll wager that bubble size has more to do with the grain bill than anything. Both dextrose and sucrose are 100% fermentable, leaving nothing but CO2 and ethanol behind. Dextrose contains slightly more moisture by weight, which is why it takes roughly 91 grams of sucrose to achieve the same carb level you get from 100 grams of dextrose.

While it is true that dextrose is simpler on a molecular level - it's a monosaccharide, and can be consumed immediately by yeast - sucrose is broken down by the enzyme invertase (into one molecule of glucose and one of fructose), which is naturally produced by yeast. Side by side comparisons of fermentation times are not conclusive; you'll get more of a variance in bottle carbonation from keeping the bottles a bit warmer or cooler than you will by swapping dextrose/sucrose.

Dextrose is cheaper when purchased on a massive (read: brewery) scale, which is why it gained popularity there. However, homebrew shops label it as "priming" or "brewing" sugar and mark it up tremendously; a 5 lb bag of table sugar (sucrose) is not much more expensive than a 5 oz bag of corn sugar (dextrose).

There's zero factual reason to use one or the other, aside from cost.

 

[beergolf]

Corn sugar or table sugar has absolutely nothing to do with bubble size. It is the proteins in the brew. So it is recipe related not the type of sugar.

You can use the same sugar in two different recipes and get larger bubbles in one brew and smaller bubbles in the next.

 

[unionrdr]

Head is a function of dissolved proteins that is driven by carbonation after pouring. Specific gravity may have something to do with it, beyond priming levels. But carbonation driven by proteins? Idk...

 

[SnakeRidge]

Corn sugar or table sugar has absolutely nothing to do with bubble size. It is the proteins in the brew. So it is recipe related not the type of sugar.

You can use the same sugar in two different recipes and get larger bubbles in one brew and smaller bubbles in the next.

That has been my experience (300 or so batches and counting)

 

[unionrdr]

Basically yes. I've gotten fine bubbles from both. But in the beginning, there was grain, then man discovered beer...oh wait, wrong sermon. Early on, when I used Cooper's carb drops, after 7 weeks in the bottles, the carbonation's fine bubbles got larger, like soda pop. Sometimes earlier on, large bubbles, then finer as they conditioned longer. So there's a thought...

 

[beergolf]

But carbonation driven by proteins? Idk.

The discussion is about bubble size not carbonation. Proteins do not have anything to do with carbonation, but it does have an effect on bubble size.

SnakeRidge understands that. I also have a lrge number of brews under my belt and have experienced the difference.

 

[unionrdr]

Yes it is, but you did bring up the protein angle. I merely rebutted. I do agree that fine bubbles can be had with different sugars, but since dextrose is easier for the yeast to metabolize, in theory, I use that. Besides the fact that I ordered 4lbs from Midqwest, & they accidentally doubled my order. Two beer kits & plenty of priming sugar to work on.

 

[Jupapabear]

Read this thread. Laughed. Decided not to buy anymore corn sugar. Thanks OP, my wallet and wife will be pleased.

 

[unionrdr]

Yeah, everybody funny...now you funny too! (John Lee Hooker)

 

[AlCophile]

FWIW, on p. 40 of 'BrewChem 101' by Lee W. Janson, Ph.D., the outline of the fermentation process shows that glucose is converted to fructose, which becomes pyruvate, then acetaldehyde, then ethanol. So, the alcohol we want actually is made from the acetaldehyde we hate. Check it at Amazon???

 

[beergolf]

Yes it is, but you did bring up the protein angle.

Yea I did bring up the protein angle, but again it was about bubble size, not carbonation. I will say it again. The type of sugar has nothing to do with bubble size.

 

[unionrdr]

I never specifically said it did. Just had some odd moments with it early on.

 

[te-wa]

unless your table sugar explicitly says "pure cane" then it is more than likely Beet sugar. i've been using it to dry out ipa's with good results.

 

[vanishingpint]

From what I understand the origin of cane and beet sugars are different but the end product is identical.

 

[rodwha]

"The smaller bubbles argument is likely something they have heard from the homebrewing community which is not exactly based in truth."

Actually my friend hasn't used a forum and hasn't read any books. He's about the most uniformed brewer I know of. He doesn't even research what's he's considering, and has ruined his beers adding too much of something. He just buys kits and a few various grains and hops and flavorings and such. So what he says is what he has observed or what he believes (right or wrong).


"Likely, the use of corn sugar in brewing became popular due to the lower cost. Table sugar (sucrose) is a bit more expensive on average than corn sugar (dextrose) when bought in bulk."

I'm not following this. Table sugar can be had in bulk (5#) much cheaper than corn sugar. On the lighter side of bulk, but I'd think the cost difference continues when a 50# bag is in question.


*edit*
Later I read how on a brewery level corn sugar becomes cheaper. I wouldn't buy more than 5 lbs at a time though. I don't have much room, and I'd prefer to stock up on grains.

 

[bobbrews]

Actually my friend hasn't used a forum and hasn't read any books. He's about the most uniformed brewer I know of. He doesn't even research what's he's considering, and has ruined his beers adding too much of something. He just buys kits and a few various grains and hops and flavorings and such. So what he says is what he has observed or what he believes (right or wrong).

I'm not following this. Table sugar can be had in bulk (5#) much cheaper than corn sugar. On the lighter side of bulk, but I'd think the cost difference continues when a 50# bag is in question.

*edit*
Later I read how on a brewery level corn sugar becomes cheaper. I wouldn't buy more than 5 lbs at a time though. I don't have much room, and I'd prefer to stock up on grains.

Your friend had to have learned something somewhere. You don't just start brewing good tasting beers spontaneously with no influence or knowledge. And the way your portray him makes me think that he would be the last person I would resort to for homebrewing advice.

Corn sugar is cheaper (on average) in bulk. This excludes internet purchases for it. This was addressed previously in this thread multiple times.... Even the bubble argument.

 

[rodwha]

"Your friend had to have learned something somewhere. You don't just start brewing good tasting beers spontaneously with no influence or knowledge."

Who said he brewed good beers? He was a long time Mr Beer brewer. I kept telling him get an account here and begin learning to make better beer. He wouldn't do it. So for his birthday I bought ingredients to make a honey wheat beer and gave him my first fermentor and bottling bucket and wrote him up directions. Since then he has been buying kits from MoreBeer.


"And the way your portray him makes me think that he would be the last person I would resort to for homebrewing advice."

I don't take his advice when it comes to brewing beer. Carbonating beer is another story, and I knew that corn sugar was the typical sugar to use. He claimed smaller bubbles so I gave it a shot, though I never took the time to consider it. Regardless he is one of the best friends I've had, and I'll at the least take what he says into consideration. I do that with most people anyway.


"Corn sugar is cheaper (on average) in bulk."

That depends on what you call bulk. To me 5 lbs is bulk as 4-5 oz is often sold as the one shot deal. I'd think most people buy 5 lb bags or less either due to cost or space. That makes it less relevant. And it certainly makes it irrelevant to me as I won't be buying in that quantity.


"This excludes internet purchases for it."

That only tells a portion of the story if you begin excluding relevant info.


"This was addressed previously in this thread multiple times"

I only noted it the once when I replied. I then read how it was better explained. I did edit my post to reflect that.

 

[rodwha]

Thinking more on my friend's observation of smaller bubbles with corn sugar likely comes from his brewing Mr Beer kits for years and using table sugar followed by his more recent brewing of MoreBeer kits that come with corn sugar. I'd think the difference likely due to the crappy Mr Beer kits and what they lack in comparison having read this discussion.

 

[rodwha]

Oh, and my friend does brew good beers too (since he upgraded), but that's not so hard if you follow the directions, use good sanitation practices, and maintain the temps well. But he also has made horrible beers such as the one he used a pound of pete smoked grains. It tasted like bog water.

 

[BigDog007]

From what I understand the origin of cane and beet sugars are different but the end product is identical.

This is true, I work in food manufacturing and the only reason we use different sugars (cane vs beet) is customer requirements country to country. The science behind genetically modified sugar (beet) vs real cane is sketchy. You can't tell the difference and it is my understanding there is no lab testing that can differentiate either. Of course this is all hearsay and I am not a chemical engineer.

 

[JimEb]

Using table sugar do you guys boil a priming mixture first?
I've tried it once the same way I process a corn sugar priming solution. The table sugar turned into a thick syrup so I cut the boil short. The beer didnt carb well at all and had a burnt sugary taste. Went back to corn sugar and everything's just fine. Maybe I gave up on table sugar too soon, but corn sugar seems like cheap insurance.

 

[rodwha]

I use a little more water than many. I often use 12 oz as my starter/priming solution pot is something like 1.5 qts, and so I need a little more to give a depth that allows me to scoop up water to rinse out my measuring cup. I see no difference, but it does seem as though corn sugar dissolves a little quicker possibly.

 

[vanishingpint]

Well .Full disclosure .I'm not a chemical engineer either,but I have stayed in a Holiday Inn Express,and I saw that episode of Modern Marvels so I think I'm qualified to give a professional opinion .