Controller for RIMS & Boil?

[doug293cz]

So if I go with 40A, running a 5500W element for BK and get a 1650 120v element, I'm at about 37A. Plus less than 2A for the pump because I'll only be running one pump for awhile. I should be fine then right? Should I be looking for a low density watt element for the RIMS tube? Can you run a 120V low watt element off a 240V plug?

Yes, this will work. The Brewhardware.com 1650 foldback element is listed as ULWD, so should be fine. The plugs/receptacles don't care what voltage they are actually carrying, so yes, you can use a L6-30 for the 120V element. Just make sure not to swap your cables between elements, as you will fry the 1650W element if you hook it up to the 5500W element cable. If you run your pump(s) from the hot line not used for the 120V element, then the pumps will not increase your total current draw at all (they will just shift current from the neutral to the hot line they are on)

Brew on

 

[Pintabone]

Yes, this will work. The Brewhardware.com 1650 foldback element is listed as ULWD, so should be fine. The plugs/receptacles don't care what voltage they are actually carrying, so yes, you can use a L6-30 for the 120V element. Just make sure not to swap your cables between elements, as you will fry the 1650W element if you hook it up to the 5500W element cable. If you run your pump(s) from the hot line not used for the 120V element, then the pumps will not increase your total current draw at all (they will just shift current from the neutral to the hot line they are on)

Brew on

I guess that’s what I’m trying to confirm. Would the outlet and wiring for the 120v element have to be changed in the diagram then to drop to 120 within the panel? Or can you use a 120v element on a 240 v plug and it will still only use 120v and 1650 w? As you can see I’m showing my electric ignorance.

 

[doug293cz]

I guess that’s what I’m trying to confirm. Would the outlet and wiring for the 120v element have to be changed in the diagram then to drop to 120 within the panel? Or can you use a 120v element on a 240 v plug and it will still only use 120v and 1650 w? As you can see I’m showing my electric ignorance.

If the receptacle is connected to one hot line and neutral, then it will only supply 120V. On a switched 120V circuit, the switching has to be done on the hot line, not the neutral. The current thru the element is determined by the voltage applied and the resistance of the element according to Ohm's law:

V = I * R (V = voltage, I = current, R = resistance)
I = V / R​

The resistance of the element is fixed, so the controlling variable for the current is voltage. Power is given by:

W = I^2 * R = I * V = V^2 / R (W = watts of power)​

I can update the drawing for a 120V RIMS element if you like.

Brew on

 

[Pintabone]

If the receptacle is connected to one hot line and neutral, then it will only supply 120V. On a switched 120V circuit, the switching has to be done on the hot line, not the neutral. The current thru the element is determined by the voltage applied and the resistance of the element according to Ohm's law:

V = I * R (V = voltage, I = current, R = resistance)
I = V / R​

The resistance of the element is fixed, so the controlling variable for the current is voltage. Power is given by:

W = I^2 * R = I * V = V^2 / R (W = watts of power)​

I can update the drawing for a 120V RIMS element if you like.

Brew on

If you don’t mind and it’s easy enough to do that’d be great.

 

[Pintabone]

If the receptacle is connected to one hot line and neutral, then it will only supply 120V. On a switched 120V circuit, the switching has to be done on the hot line, not the neutral. The current thru the element is determined by the voltage applied and the resistance of the element according to Ohm's law:

V = I * R (V = voltage, I = current, R = resistance)
I = V / R​

The resistance of the element is fixed, so the controlling variable for the current is voltage. Power is given by:

W = I^2 * R = I * V = V^2 / R (W = watts of power)​

I can update the drawing for a 120V RIMS element if you like.

Brew on

Ive been staring at this drawing for awhile and reading some stuff. Is it as easy as swapping the black load wire going into the rims contractor for a neutral? and continuing that through to the element receptacle? Will that still work the element lamp just after the contractor?

 

[doug293cz]

It's almost that easy. In addition to that, the pump that is powered by the red hot should be moved to the black hot for current balancing/minimizing purposes. In this case you don't need two 10A fuses. A single 10A fuse will be adequate for two pumps.

The neutral going to the RIMS element needs to be 14AWG for a 1650W element, and 12AWG for any higher.

Brew on

 

[Pintabone]

It's almost that easy. In addition to that, the pump that is powered by the red hot should be moved to the black hot for current balancing/minimizing purposes. In this case you don't need two 10A fuses. A single 10A fuse will be adequate for two pumps.

The neutral going to the RIMS element needs to be 14AWG for a 1650W element, and 12AWG for any higher.

Brew on

Thanks again Doug. So if I can confirm, the black hot going to the two pump switches should run through a single fuse, then I assume I can hit one pump switch from the other end of the fuse and then daisy chain off that connection to the next pump switch? Referencing back to your daisy chain recommendation.

And if I can confirm how to wire that RIMS element lamp, sorry for what is probably an elementary question but want to make sure I have this right. Just give it the hot off the SSR and a neutral?

 

[doug293cz]

Ok, I updated the drawing for 40A and 120V RIMS element. I did not include the fuses/breakers that would be needed to reduce the element power wires from the 8AWG required for the incoming 40A. I think I accounted for everything else we talked about.

Let me know if there is anything that looks flaky, or that you don't understand.

Brew on

 

[Pintabone]

Alright, so maybe this will be the last question until I order all this stuff and move forward on putting it all together. If I want to add breakers, would I just put them where I've indicated in the picture? Use a 32A for the BK element and a 16A for the RIMS? Then I can step the wire down to the lower gauges you mentioned in a previous post? 25A breaker would allow me to use 12g wire to the BK element and a 16A breaker would allow 14g to RIMS element.

 

[doug293cz]

Alright, so maybe this will be the last question until I order all this stuff and move forward on putting it all together. If I want to add breakers, would I just put them where I've indicated in the picture? Use a 32A for the BK element and a 16A for the RIMS? Then I can step the wire down to the lower gauges you mentioned in a previous post? 25A breaker would allow me to use 12g wire to the BK element and a 16A breaker would allow 14g to RIMS element.

View attachment 595088

Correct. https://www.stayonline.com/product-resources/reference-circuit-ampacity.asp For the elements you have 2 current carrying conductors.

Brew on

 

[RyanH89]

Brewhardware.com inkbird. It’s amazing. Video below I made for my HBC

 

[Tiggers97]

You can run about 6500W of total heater power with a 30A circuit, and still be able to run up to 2 pumps. Any higher total power would require a 50A circuit. To get 6500W, both elements need to be 240V. You could for example run a 4500W element in the BK, and a 2000W element in the RIMS. Trying to run the low power element from 120V actually increases the total amps required.

You interested in seeing what such a control panel would look like?

Brew on

I've been re-exploring RIMS setup, and currently have one similar to the OP's (DIY controller and an Inkbird for the RIMS). I would think that once the HLT gets up to the strike temperature and is ready for the mash, that much less than 5500kw would be needed to maintain near that temperature, and far less than 23amps would be needed. i.e. both the 240v element HLT and 120v element RIMS could be run at the same time on a 30amp circuit.

But that would be highly procedural (end user paying attention) to monitor the amp draw. If the low cost PIDS suitable for brewing had a power output to monitor, then maybe an interlock could be setup? Or maybe something hooked up to monitor a volt/watt meter for the 240v element HLT, to only allow the 120v RIMS element contact to trigger when the amount of draw is less than 15 amps, to allow the RIMS to be fully powered?


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