&^$% code enforcement

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Evan! said:
Uh, yeah, but it's still fuel for a fire whether it's inside or out.

Yeah-- but those codes can be so weirdly phrased-- -so many feet from that, so far from the other thing, with so many inches of those. its possible that the proximity to the door or whatever is the issue.



Now, mind you, I think this is probably in technical violation one of the ordinances that they enact to keep people from turning their yard into a collection of broken, rotting consumer goods. Particularly since he seems to mention that a wicker sofa would be okay. And odds are he pissed off a neighbor who decided to get back at hiom by reporting his technical violation.

I'm really of two minds on this sort of regulation:

Pro: while I'd like to beleive that we can all live in harmony by just being reasonable with each other, I know that this isn't gonna happen. We need rule of law BECAUSE people can't seem to get along, particularly when in close quarters. It'd be nice if every neighbor would take into consideration their fellows but they don't. It does impact sellability of a property when a neighbor is making a mess of things.

Con: It's certainly horrible to think of the amount of control people exert over property they do not own and it sure woudl be niceif peole whould just mind their own f-ing business and leave the neighbors alone.


I guess what it amounts to is the same thing as that other thread: finding the balance point where one person's rights end and another's begin. It's not a simple matter.
 
kornkob said:
I guess what it amounts to is the same thing as that other thread: finding the balance point where one person's rights end and another's begin. It's not a simple matter.

Too true. I remember when I was in college, I rented a small house with 2 other guys. On year I left town for the summer as did another guy, leaving just that one guy there to care for the place. Well, he left for vacation for a few weeks, and I get a call from the rental company telling us that the grass is getting a little high, and the town has issued a warning that either we have to cut it with X hours, or they come and do it and backcharge us $100 or something.

As you said, there's no simple solution. While it pissed me off to have the gubmint tell me to cut my lawn, I also can see the value in it, as I'd not want all my neighbors (now that I'm a homeowner) to have 3' tall grass and cars on blocks everywhere.
 
Evan! said:
Uh, yeah, but it's still fuel for a fire whether it's inside or out.

very true.

This thread made me open up ye olde International Fire Code to see what the specific terms are regarding furniture...

With a couch, if it has been constructed within the last few years then, per NFPA 260 standards must meet the requirements to resist ignition by cigarettes... this doesn't mean that it won't catch fire, but it appears that Upholstered Furniture has to resist catching fire to some degree...

I don't have NFPA 260 in front of me, nor do I think we have such manual, at least I know in my personal Library I don't have it...

There are some exceptions, the couch doesn't have to meet the NFPA 206 standard if there is a sprinkler system present (altho this only counts for being indoors)...

If the ordinance is about it being a Fire Hazard, you can treat the couch with a Fire resistant spray that increases the couch's fire resistance....

The couch's placement doesn't appear to be a hazard, it's not blocking any portion of the doorway and isn't blocking any means of escape... unless you wanna jump out the window.... but then again people place furniture near windows on the inside, so you really can't say it's blocking anything.

It'd be interesting to present this to my Fire Inspection class to see what people would come up with.
 
BraeHaus said:
The couch's placement doesn't appear to be a hazard, it's not blocking any portion of the doorway and isn't blocking any means of escape... unless you wanna jump out the window.... but then again people place furniture near windows on the inside, so you really can't say it's blocking anything.

Given no weird local ordinace requiring outdoor furniture to be more than X inches from any egress, it seems there's no fire code problem with the sofa in the pic the OP provided.

Which leaves some other ordinance, regulation or covenant as the source of the problem.
 
haha... it kinda looks like a couch you'd have in the garage to watch the game and sometimes where you'd sleep when SWMBO is in one of her moods. :D
 
BraeHaus said:
Every township has it's weird ordinances, and when I do inspection in different states and areas other than my own I always have to call the local townships and have them forward me some of the codes they've adopted and ordinances they strictly enforce.

Yes, but not all have to do with fire. I was just saying, for example. In the neighborhood I am about to move into, their is a Restriction that doesn't allow you to work on your car in the street. Because the neighbors don't like it. If I did, it would be a violation, and the "code monkey's would come after me." They may have a restriction saying that a sofa on the front porch isn't allowed because rats eat them.

BraeHaus said:
Just as a side note, not all of us are d!ckheads, I usually ask the person to fix the issues and send them a written letter (usually just to re-iterate the possible offense and to ask them to take the means necessary to fix it, and then give them anywhere between 5 and 30 days to comply).

If I come back a second time and it's not fixed, I issue a citation, after that it goes to court.

I'm pretty easy going and very easy to work with so I rarely have issues that go as far as a citation and court hearing.

I didn't mean to imply that you guys were jerks. I was just saying a had bones to pick with "you guys." We had a problem with Fire Extinguisher placement, and we felt that although the placement the inspector wanted it moved too was to code, we felt it was less effective because of who had access to that extinguisher at what times.

I was just trying to have a little fun wit yah :D
 
Zul'jin said:
Revel in it. It's sofa king nice. I got an American flag too. I'm just saying...

Anyway, I've built a sofa temple in the backyard.

Tomorrow I shall build a hobo hovel on the front porch. Code Monkey say plastic furniture is OK for outside. I got buckets!
]

A real old guy I once knew was tired of all "them damn yuppers or wha'ever yew call 'em" coming and building subdivisions off his county road. So he put up a HUGE sign in his pasture that read "Coming Soon---Hog Parlor!". He hoped that would be a deterrant to the uppity folks movin' in.

Interesting fellow. Ran a general store that had old car bucket-type seats on the porch. His cash register was the bib pocket of his overalls, where he kept a roll of bills snuggled next to a snubnosed .38. He died about 4 years ago, but not before making a name of himself and letting EVERYBODY know how he felt.

He'd have agreed with you, Zuljins, and told you to tell The Man to stick it up his wah-zoo.
 
Warped04 said:
Yes, but not all have to do with fire. I was just saying, for example. In the neighborhood I am about to move into, their is a Restriction that doesn't allow you to work on your car in the street. Because the neighbors don't like it. If I did, it would be a violation, and the "code monkey's would come after me." They may have a restriction saying that a sofa on the front porch isn't allowed because rats eat them.

I didn't mean to imply that you guys were jerks. I was just saying a had bones to pick with "you guys." We had a problem with Fire Extinguisher placement, and we felt that although the placement the inspector wanted it moved too was to code, we felt it was less effective because of who had access to that extinguisher at what times.

I was just trying to have a little fun wit yah :D

all points taken, and I know you weren't being a jerk... i was just saying, there are some of us that are nice :D

i know a few Inspectors who think they are the law and really like confrontation... me on the other hand, I work with you, and you with me, things will be fine and no one gets hurt feelings at the end of the day...

unless i walk into a complete disaster :drunk:
 
Bedlam said:
A real old guy I once knew was tired of all "them damn yuppers or wha'ever yew call 'em" coming and building subdivisions off his county road. So he put up a HUGE sign in his pasture that read "Coming Soon---Hog Parlor!". He hoped that would be a deterrant to the uppity folks movin' in.

Interesting fellow. Ran a general store that had old car bucket-type seats on the porch. His cash register was the bib pocket of his overalls, where he kept a roll of bills snuggled next to a snubnosed .38. He died about 4 years ago, but not before making a name of himself and letting EVERYBODY know how he felt.

He'd have agreed with you, Zuljins, and told you to tell The Man to stick it up his wah-zoo.


and that sir was how the west was won.... my great grandpop was like that... old school.
 
BraeHaus said:
It'd be interesting to present this to my Fire Inspection class to see what people would come up with.

Are you going to start with the OP, or just the situation in general? :D

I didn't see it, but Zul'jin does your neighborhood have a HomeOwner's Association or is this the actual city fire inspectors giving you grief? HOAs are the spawn of satan. They set up all kinds of draconian rules like what color you can paint your house, what kind of plants you can plant out front, things like that. Hates. Them.

It also sounds like it's time to get a bright yellow or fluorescent green plastic couch for the front porch.
 
Rats do not eat nyt sofa. I already said that . I also siad sthat is is nice. I ti s.!

My niechbors all like me. we are all friends and brew buddies and throw darts not even at each oter. The code monkey even said that cone comp,ain. He just wrote tehviolation becauaes sofa is :unsightly".

I told him when he saiud plastic was OK that buckes were plastic, he said, put buckets then. I did!!!!Tsody he put a note on my sdoor that said CORRECETD and that I had a great sence og humor! i have noth notes in my window. on th eindse so he cannnot take them down.

My pretty pttty sofa is in ashrine built in my back yeard with no permit because it is not a perminent construction. and you know what lese>?? I aint getting a permit to move mt liitle fence wither!
oh and my neighbot who helpe dme mone ncie sofa to shrine founf a bullet SKS in it and he has one too! he said they only left note because of bullets. they were afraid and maybe thye call bomb sqwad for ordinance disposal next time! ilk dispose of ordianace ok! BANMASNSNBASASNANBAMABAMAB!
 
Zul'jin said:
Rats do not eat nyt sofa. I already said that . I also siad sthat is is nice. I ti s.!

My niechbors all like me. we are all friends and brew buddies and throw darts not even at each oter. The code monkey even said that cone comp,ain. He just wrote tehviolation becauaes sofa is :unsightly".

I told him when he saiud plastic was OK that buckes were plastic, he said, put buckets then. I did!!!!Tsody he put a note on my sdoor that said CORRECETD and that I had a great sence og humor! i have noth notes in my window. on th eindse so he cannnot take them down.

My pretty pttty sofa is in ashrine built in my back yeard with no permit because it is not a perminent construction. and you know what lese>?? I aint getting a permit to move mt liitle fence wither!
oh and my neighbot who helpe dme mone ncie sofa to shrine founf a bullet SKS in it and he has one too! he said they only left note because of bullets. they were afraid and maybe thye call bomb sqwad for ordinance disposal next time! ilk dispose of ordianace ok! BANMASNSNBASASNANBAMABAMAB!


It's been a few years since I've spoken druck, but I think I can pick it up again.


Rats do not eat the sofa- I already said that! I also said that is is nice- it is!

My neighbors all like me. We are friends and brewbuddies. We throw darts together, and not even at each other! The code officer even said that no one complained. He just wrote the violation because the sofa is "unsightly".

When he said that plastic was ok, I told him that buckets were plastic. He said, "Put buckets then!". I did!!!! Today he put a note on my door that said CORRECTED and that I had a great sense of humor. I have the notes on my window- on the inside so he can not take them down.

My pretty, pretty sofa is in a shrine built in my back yard, with no permit because it is not a permanent construction. You know what else? I'm not getting a permit to move my little fence either! Oh, and my neighbor who helped me move the nice sofa to the shrine find a SKS bullet in it, and he also has one! He said they only left the note because of the bullets. There were afraid, and maybe they would call the bomb squad for ordinance disposal next time. I'll dispose of that ordinance just fine! BAM BAM BAM!
 
I have just one question regarding this here outdoor couch: Doe it never rain where you are? Or do you like the idea of a moldy couch????


OK, that was two questions, but still........
 
EvilTOJ said:
Are you going to start with the OP, or just the situation in general? :D

I didn't see it, but Zul'jin does your neighborhood have a HomeOwner's Association or is this the actual city fire inspectors giving you grief? HOAs are the spawn of satan. They set up all kinds of draconian rules like what color you can paint your house, what kind of plants you can plant out front, things like that. Hates. Them.

It also sounds like it's time to get a bright yellow or fluorescent green plastic couch for the front porch.

i'm not going to reveal names or a location, I'm just going to show them a picture of the couch on a front porch and ask if there is a potential hazard and what they would do in a situation like this.
 
An great event has been made happen to occur.

The shrine has been demolished. Ripped asunder by the brutal forces of nature. Howling winds, sometimes gusting to 60mph, did un-stake and lift the Shrine of the Green Corduroy Sofa, in its entirety, and blew it across my yard, over a 6 foot wooden fence, across my neighbors yard and into their shed; tearing the very aluminum skeleton of the shrine's construction. This is a sign.

Oh, no, not a sign to get rid of the sofa. No, this is a sign that the High Power doth not wantest mine sofa blocked from Its sight. The very sky and sun do want to gaze upon the beauty of the Green Corduroy Sofa.

Trifle not with the elements will I. Upon the Green Corduroy Sofa I shall be sitting to this day's end. Beers will be drankest in homage and reconciliation.

:tank:
 
Drink one unto the Sun God, brother, that he might favor thee and thy Green Corduroy Goodness with his blessed light and smote Code Monkey largeth.
 
BMC commercial: (imagine anouncer voice)

Here's to you Mr Couch on the front porch druck guy!
You don't take no rcap from nobody!
And leave your neighbor's dead mothers tsuff alone too!
We salute you mr Druck couch guy.....
Please don't kick us in the pit.

(I was inspired by cap'n's ingenius "airplane" reference)
 
After reading through this whole, twisted, hilarious thread, I think I've got this one all figured out.
Copperhed, you're back!
 
Bernie Brewer said:
I have just one question regarding this here outdoor couch: Doe it never rain where you are? Or do you like the idea of a moldy couch????


OK, that was two questions, but still........

i git eis suf fer myne

superproof-waterproof-spray.jpg
 
He's not drunk. He must be of some other nationality. Merely "Druck" doesn't explain all of that stuff away........... Code Monkey. Sorry man! Good luck with the sofa.

Please don't kick me in a pit!!
 
Well, I hate to flame, but if ANYONE in my neighborhood had a couch on their front porch, I would ABSOLUTELY complain about it until it was removed. You want outdoor furniture? Buy outdoor furniture.
 
rdwj said:
Well, I hate to flame, but if ANYONE in my neighborhood had a couch on their front porch, I would ABSOLUTELY complain about it until it was removed. You want outdoor furniture? Buy outdoor furniture.

And they'd better hope that they don't happen to paint their house a color that you don't like, either, or someone's gonna go a-complainin'.
 
rdwj said:
Well, I hate to flame, but if ANYONE in my neighborhood had a couch on their front porch, I would ABSOLUTELY complain about it until it was removed. You want outdoor furniture? Buy outdoor furniture.

EAC Neighbors! EAC Code Monkey's!

Trailer Trash of the World Unite!

You don't need to take this Abuse and Tryanny. This is America and people died for your right to have rotten, smelly couches molding in front of your trailer.

To arms!! To arms!!!



I can see the revolutionary slogans now.

"I regret I have but one couch to give for my trailer!"

"Give me a Lazy Boy or give me death!"

"A recliner if by land, a love seat if by sea!"
 
"Those who give up a little couch for some plastic furniture deserve neither couch nor plastic furniture!"
 
Evan! said:
And they'd better hope that they don't happen to paint their house a color that you don't like, either, or someone's gonna go a-complainin'.

Yep - we actually have codes in our neighborhood that cover landscaping, house colors, parking, dog runs, sheds and a WHOLE bunch of other things. I LOVE them. I've lived in neighborhoods without strict rules and there are always people that keep sloppy houses that bring down the values in the rest of the neighborhood.

I've got a lot of money in my house, and I'd like to see it keep increasing in value
 
rdwj said:
Yep - we actually have codes in our neighborhood that cover landscaping, house colors, parking, dog runs, sheds and a WHOLE bunch of other things. I LOVE them. I've lived in neighborhoods without strict rules and there are always people that keep sloppy houses that bring down the values in the rest of the neighborhood.

Land of the free and home of the brave, indeed! Ah, what a wonderful world we live in, where Haitians are so poor they're actually eating mud---and we can't spend our time any more wisely than to ***** and moan about what color our neighbor paints their house...:p
 
paulthenurse said:
I can see the revolutionary slogans now.

"I regret I have but one couch to give for my trailer!"

"Give me a Lazy Boy or give me death!"

"A recliner if by land, a love seat if by sea!"

Slogans for the new "ottoman" empire.....:D

Ba Bum Bum *ching* (yes, it's a slow day at work)
 
I lived in a neighborhood that had all kinds of weird rules. For instance, men could not mow their own yards bare-chested. They had to wear a shirt.

Also, if they thought your grass was too long, they'd put a note on your door as a warning. If you didn't cut it w/in 3 days, they'd send the city out to do it and bill you. And we aren't talking like it had to be knee-deep, either.

I did manage to tear apart my motorcycle to fix various things in the front yard, much to the old ladies' dismay.

One old coot would walk his little dog by every day and the darn thing would take a dump in my front yard. I was getting ready to say something to him about it, when one day he shows up with a curb trimmer and makes my driveway and sidewalk all neat. (I didn't have one.) That was the deal from then on. His dog would crap in my yard, and he'd keep my curbs all neat. We never discussed it; that's just the way it went.

That, my friends, is my definition of neighborly.
 
rdwj said:
Yep - we actually have codes in our neighborhood that cover landscaping, house colors, parking, dog runs, sheds and a WHOLE bunch of other things. I LOVE them. I've lived in neighborhoods without strict rules and there are always people that keep sloppy houses that bring down the values in the rest of the neighborhood.

I've got a lot of money in my house, and I'd like to see it keep increasing in value

You know when I first read this I was kind of astonished at my reaction. As a self confessed libertarian of sorts I found myself having no problem with this sort of thing at all. It finally dawned on me as to why. I personally would never live under those conditions, but I don't have to. I can live anywhere I want and if a group of people choose to impose rules upon themselves, then all the power to them.

I would have a serious problem if I were already living in a neighbourhood that suddenly adopted these rules, but that's normally not the case as far as I know. To each his own. I live in the country and there are actually some rules out here too. You can't have a bunch of derelict cars in your yard. You can have the cars, but they have to be out of sight of the road. To me, that's a reasonable requirement. Others were quite upset over it.

So getting to the couch issue, I have to side with rdwj on this. As long as the rules were presented before he moved in, complaining now is too late. Remove the couch, as he's done, then sit on the board and try to change them. Lobby the neighbours to force a change if need be. You've tacitly agreed to abide by them when you moved in so either keep your word, change the rules, or move.
 
Agreed. If that couch was on a front porch in my neighborhood where I live, not in a frat house, but in the house I own with my wife and 3 kids. I would personnally go in the middle of the night and steal it and take it to the dump.

The thing is, it is not in my neighborhood. So my opinion shouldn't even be counted!

To each their own amen.
 
My sister and her family live in a yuppie neighborhood with a bunch of rules like that. One rule was that there could be no mailboxes at individual houses, they all had to be at the entrance to the neighborhood. That worked fine until someone (most likely teenagers) played mailbox baseball and took out the entire neighborhood's mailboxes in one night. Then when the mailboxes were replaced they came back and smashed them all again. Now, everyone has a mailbox at their house...

I find it to be ridiculous that some of these neighboorhood "rules" are even legally enforceable. If I own the property and am not breaking any laws, tough **** if you don't like the color of my house or the type of furniture I have out. If something is creating a health hazard that's one thing, but aesthetic taste is subjective...
 
Fingers said:
So getting to the couch issue, I have to side with rdwj on this. As long as the rules were presented before he moved in, complaining now is too late. Remove the couch, as he's done, then sit on the board and try to change them. Lobby the neighbours to force a change if need be. You've tacitly agreed to abide by them when you moved in so either keep your word, change the rules, or move.

I agree wholeheartedly. It becomes a bigger problem when it's an entire jurisdiction, enforced by the gubmint. Believe me, if you wanna see tyranny, you need look no further than our local BAR. If you're building in a district that they're designated as under their purview, then they have been given the right to micromanage every detail...every color, every product, every finish, every tree, every blade of grass.

And to me, it doesn't seem like Zul'jin is living in a gated community.
 
For neighborhoods I don't agree. Is it OK for one ******* to infringe on my property value by locating a junkyard in his yard?

I used to hate these rules, then I bought a house.
 
cheezydemon said:
I would personnally go in the middle of the night and steal it and take it to the dump.

Ever hear of couching?

Near my sisters house, someone put out a couch by the side of the road (for the garbage men to take) Long story short, some guys got druk, took the couch and put it across the driveway of one of their neighbors (as a joke). That person then took it in the middle of the night and hung it between two trees about 3 feet off the ground across the driveway of one of the original guys who took it. so during the summer this couch made it's way from property to property in various "obstructive" locations. All I can tell you is by fall, my brother ended up boating across the lake, with the couch, to put it sideways (perpendicular) on the end of the original owners dock.
 
cheezydemon said:
For neighborhoods I don't agree. Is it OK for one ******* to infringe on my property value by locating a junkyard in his yard?

I used to hate these rules, then I bought a house.

But how far do you go with that? There are some houses on my street that, while not junkyards, they aren't exactly sparkling beacons of architectural beauty. As such, they're "infringing on my property value" by not being very nice houses. So should I have the right to force people to renovate their house?
 
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