CO2 refill way overpriced?

[Airborneguy]

I will take an out of date aluminum tank and I pass on the $25 fee that I pay for recertification. Once you have a tank with my name on it, we don't check the date anymore. We don't take steel tanks unless we already had our name on it.

Great I’m gonna swing by soon. I’m picking up my kegerator and the second tank tomorrow.

 

[murphyslaw]

I mean, if there were two places that were equally convenient and one swapped and one filled, I might bring my shinny new tank to the one that fills. But convenience trumps all and most places swap.

I just went through this with an oxygen tank I bought new. Made a few calls to find a place that filled but couldn't. So I swapped. No big deal.

 

[odie]

Praxair...they just swap mine out all the time. never even check the dates. Recert costs are factored into the swap cost and thus gets evenly and fairly spread out amongst all customers.

Airgas will cheat you. Charge you one day for a recert. the next day they will swap out your fresh recertified tank for one of theirs that's about to expire. And then charge you a recert again your next visit.

I have a bunch of 20# tanks. guess who gets all my biz...

 

[IslandLizard]

Praxair...they just swap mine out all the time. never even check the dates.

Same here, Praxair for the win, my go to place for years!
Pricing has been reasonable, usually better than anywhere else. And truly full tanks.

 

[cbier60]

I swapped a 10 lb tank at Sidney Lee Welding this April ('22) for $18; there are multiple locations in the metro Atlanta area. I think a 5 lb was $15 and a 20 lb was $25-28. They may have gone up in the last 6 months, but have been less than Beverage Control for the past several years. They swap out-of-date tanks with no hydro test fee.

I just had a 20 lb tank filled at Beverage Control a month ago, 2 weeks before it expired. It is $29 to fill and would have been $30 for hydro testing had it expired.

I believe that CO2 is more readily available than it was a year ago, so you should not have pay exhorbitant rates.

 

[Bobby_M]

Praxair...they just swap mine out all the time. never even check the dates. Recert costs are factored into the swap cost and thus gets evenly and fairly spread out amongst all customers.

Airgas will cheat you. Charge you one day for a recert. the next day they will swap out your fresh recertified tank for one of theirs that's about to expire. And then charge you a recert again your next visit.

I have a bunch of 20# tanks. guess who gets all my biz...

I get what you're saying, but if you're one place that doesn't look at hydro dates, you become the garbage tank dumping site. People will drive an hour out of their way to stick you with the out of date tank and then continue swaps/fills with their more local place. The way I do it is extremely fair. I do look at the dates of outside tanks and you only pay the hydro fee exactly one time. From then on, as long as the tank has my name on it, I cover hydro fees from then on.

It wouldn't be fair to build hydro costs into the swap because there are people that bring in a brand new tank with a manufacturing date of two months ago. Why should that customer partly cover the cost?

 

[Closet Fermenter]

My local brew supply store charged me a one-time fee, (I am guessing to cover recertification fees), then I can swap out my fives for $18. Yeah, kinda breaks your heart to leave that nice, new, virgin bottle there and leave with an old one that has been passed around by all guys, but like I said; if the beer doesn’t mind, neither do I.

 

[SanPancho]

I get what you're saying, but if you're one place that doesn't look at hydro dates, you become the garbage tank dumping site. People will drive an hour out of their way to stick you with the out of date tank and then continue swaps/fills with their more local place. The way I do it is extremely fair. I do look at the dates of outside tanks and you only pay the hydro fee exactly one time. From then on, as long as the tank has my name on it, I cover hydro fees from then on.

It wouldn't be fair to build hydro costs into the swap because there are people that bring in a brand new tank with a manufacturing date of two months ago. Why should that customer partly cover the cost?

because that is the most efficient system.

My local brew supply store charged me a one-time fee, (I am guessing to cover recertification fees), then I can swap out my fives for $18. Yeah, kinda breaks your heart to leave that nice, new, virgin bottle there and leave with an old one that has been passed around by all guys, but like I said; if the beer doesn’t mind, neither do I.

and that is exactly why the swap/no-cert system is the best.

 

[day_trippr]

Indeed, I bought my three 5 pounders from a lhbs under their swap/no-cert plan and all was great for years.
Then he went out of business. And I found out how much other places wanted for fills, swaps and certs.
Yikes!
That's when I sprung for the 20 pound siphon tank...

Cheers!

 

[Maalea]

I just got an 5# exchange for $30, local beer distributor. The last time it was $25. Asked about buying another 5# tank and was quoted $65. This is in Montgomery county, Pa.

 

[Erroneous]

So I picked the tanks up today. The invoice is as follows:

Description	Qty	Rate	Total
Service provided to Recharge, Certify, Inspect, and Tag Fire Protection Equipment	2	64.00	128.00
High Pressure Hydrostatic Test on CO2 Cylinder(s): under 50 lbs	1	56.00	56.00
Fire Extinguisher O Rings used in Recharge	1	9.40	9.40
Hazardous Label	1	9.00	9.00
Visual Eddy Performed	1	22.00	22.00
			224.40 + tax

Not sure what Visual Eddy is, but yeah, looks like they're pricing for fire equipment instead of simple CO2 gas. On the plus side, I should be able to put out grease fires with my CO2 canisters, right?

 

[Airborneguy]

That’s crazy.

 

[IslandLizard]

looks like they're pricing for fire equipment instead of simple CO2 gas.

But, but, fire protection equipment (e.g., extinguishers) doesn't look anything like CO2 tanks used for beverages...

I used to get my CO2 tank filled at a (large) fire protection outfit off BWI airport. Just walk in the back door. They checked the hydro date, then filled it while I waited. $22.
Hydro would be $35 and around a week's wait, they did them right there, I saw the immersion tank and drying station.

One day I walked in, they must have had an army of well over 1000 (red) extinguishers sitting on the shop floor, a few different sizes, tagged and ready to be shipped out.

 

[Erroneous]

Yeah the hydro price of theirs is a little high but not totally unreasonable. The price to fill and a $9 o ring and $9 sticker are steep. I looked up the visual eddy test and it's just an extra safety thing to look for hairline fractures. It took about 3 weeks, which is what it took when I had one tested at Airgas in Orlando because they move around the guy/equipment that does the testing.

Not doing that again . I have a fire extinguisher that needs charging, but if it's going to cost me $64 I'll buy a new one for $40 from walmart first.

 

[BrewMan13]

Seems like I get a pretty good deal compared to a lot of the posts in here. Beverage center charges by the pound, somewhere around $2.50-3/lb. Since they usually don't get quite the full 5lb in, a fill usually costs me $12-13.

 

[Wayne1]

As was mentioned earlier in this thread, look into hydroponic supply shops for CO2. There is a small chain in the front range of Colorado that just recently raised their prices to $9.00 for a 20 lb swap. Last year it was $8.00.

Bulk gas to fill a 700 lb dewar is running around $ 0.35 a pound in the Denver metro area. Someone is making a bit of profit

 

[odie]

It wouldn't be fair to build hydro costs into the swap because there are people that bring in a brand new tank with a manufacturing date of two months ago. Why should that customer partly cover the cost?

AirGas tried that crap with me. I brought in a brand new tank that I purchased. BRAND NEW. They tried to swap me with their old tank. Told them NO...fill my NEW tank.

AirGas also tried to swap me their steel for my aluminum tank once. No thank you.

BTW, Praxair's swap prices are the same as AirGas's in my town, so both are factoring in and averaging out the recert. But AirGas is double dipping on top of that. If you bring in an AirGas labeled tank that's outta date, they want you to pay full recert it even though it's their tank.

 

[Deadalus]

I had one aluminum and one steel 5 lb tanks when I started using Airgas a few years ago. They were both my own and out of date but they swapped them. I rarely get an aluminum one back as a swap. However I was passing through Allentown, PA last weekend and needed a tank for a Halloween party and I got a brand new one in the swap ($25.84)! I don't mind so much what they look like except when I have them out with my jockey box. I am going to go with the home refill route on this one if the 20 lb cost is reasonable.

 

[hawkwing]

Strange it’s $45 CAD to fill 20lbs and $30 for hydrostatic test for me.

 

[Erroneous]

As was mentioned earlier in this thread, look into hydroponic supply shops for CO2. There is a small chain in the front range of Colorado that just recently raised their prices to $9.00 for a 20 lb swap. Last year it was $8.00.

Bulk gas to fill a 700 lb dewar is running around $ 0.35 a pound in the Denver metro area. Someone is making a bit of profit

When I first moved here this place was the only one I could find nearby. After doing more searching there have been some more welding and medical gas supply places that have popped up besides the new AirGas that only does swaps and only for 20 lb tanks. It'll probably be a while before I need CO2 again, but I've got about 3 options I'll be thinking about when I do.

 

[Bobby_M]

So I picked the tanks up today. The invoice is as follows:

Description	Qty	Rate	Total
Service provided to Recharge, Certify, Inspect, and Tag Fire Protection Equipment	2	64.00	128.00
High Pressure Hydrostatic Test on CO2 Cylinder(s): under 50 lbs	1	56.00	56.00
Fire Extinguisher O Rings used in Recharge	1	9.40	9.40
Hazardous Label	1	9.00	9.00
Visual Eddy Performed	1	22.00	22.00
			224.40 + tax

Not sure what Visual Eddy is, but yeah, looks like they're pricing for fire equipment instead of simple CO2 gas. On the plus side, I should be able to put out grease fires with my CO2 canisters, right?

They are being extremely obnoxious. The hydro IS the service yet they have a separate service charge? $9.40 for an oring. That oring costs exactly 12 cents. The hazardous label was likely already on the tank but even if it wasn't, those are $1 retail. At the amount they buy, probably 25 cents. I have 8 fire extinguishers in my commercial building that need inspection and recertification from a similar business annually. I had one local place try to charge me almost $2000 for the eight units and they argued that they just sell me new ones and recertify the old ones for resale. Huh? Nope... give me my tanks back right now.

As I mentioned earlier, I have a fire extinguisher place hydro and stamp my out of date tanks and I got the price down to $25 per tank since I always do them in batches of at least 20 tanks. When I first inquired and they didn't know I'd be doing quantity, they told me $37 so even the general public would get away with much less than you got nailed there.

 

[Bobby_M]

because that is the most efficient system.

Depends on what metric you're using to define efficient. I have exactly two SKUs for a 5LB swap. One is for a BrewHardware branded tank (or outside aluminum still in date) and the other one is for an non-BH aluminum tank that is out of date. It's a compromise that both the business and customer can live with and no one gets ripped off. There are some shops around here that will not take an outside tank period. You have to buy one of their branded tanks first and then you can swap forever with no hydro fees. As the business owner, I know that I will be paying for hydro services over the life of all the tanks and I accept that. What I won't do is pay the first one out of my pocket. I'm already making it convenient for the customer by getting the hydro done on their behalf (at a discount) and eating the cost of dropping off and picking it up at a facility. Once you're in the system, by owning a BH branded tank, the incentive to keep coming back is that we won't look at the hydro date on the swap.

This stuff isn't as intuitive as it may seem. It took a year to figure out a model that makes the most sense and we were practically just breaking even at the time when people were dumping all their out of date tanks on us. Based on the fact that we do an average of 10 swaps a day, I'd say the locals are pretty happy with it the way it is.

 

[Airborneguy]

Depends on what metric you're using to define efficient. I have exactly two SKUs for a 5LB swap. One is for a BrewHardware branded tank (or outside aluminum still in date) and the other one is for an non-BH aluminum tank that is out of date. It's a compromise that both the business and customer can live with and no one gets ripped off. There are some shops around here that will not take an outside tank period. You have to buy one of their branded tanks first and then you can swap forever with no hydro fees. As the business owner, I know that I will be paying for hydro services over the life of all the tanks and I accept that. What I won't do is pay the first one out of my pocket. I'm already making it convenient for the customer by getting the hydro done on their behalf (at a discount) and eating the cost of dropping off and picking it up at a facility. Once you're in the system, by owning a BH branded tank, the incentive to keep coming back is that we won't look at the hydro date on the swap.

This stuff isn't as intuitive as it may seem. It took a year to figure out a model that makes the most sense and we were practically just breaking even at the time when people were dumping all their out of date tanks on us. Based on the fact that we do an average of 10 swaps a day, I'd say the locals are pretty happy with it the way it is.

If you get a chance check your messages. I’m looking to swing by tomorrow but unsure of the policy based on the website.

 

[Bilsch]

Unlike nitrogen, oxygen, argon etc which all come from the same air distillation process and are essentially equivalent in quality, CO2 comes from many sources. Some actually quite dirty and contaminated with things like hydrocarbons, carbon monoxide etc. This so called trash gas is typically sold for use in fire extinguishers, plant growing, cooling etc. The higher grades which come from things like ethanol production are sold as beverage or laser grade and are really the minimum that should be used to carbonate or push beer. Beware of people that tell you it's all the same because it's definitely not.

 

[SanPancho]

So I picked the tanks up today. The invoice is as follows:

Description	Qty	Rate	Total
Service provided to Recharge, Certify, Inspect, and Tag Fire Protection Equipment	2	64.00	128.00
High Pressure Hydrostatic Test on CO2 Cylinder(s): under 50 lbs	1	56.00	56.00
Fire Extinguisher O Rings used in Recharge	1	9.40	9.40
Hazardous Label	1	9.00	9.00
Visual Eddy Performed	1	22.00	22.00
			224.40 + tax

Not sure what Visual Eddy is, but yeah, looks like they're pricing for fire equipment instead of simple CO2 gas. On the plus side, I should be able to put out grease fires with my CO2 canisters, right?

You have hydroponics shops around? If so they are typically super cheap for swaps. but many only accept 20 or 50lb tanks. if you can find one it’s worth it.

Depends on what metric you're using to define efficient. I have exactly two SKUs for a 5LB swap. One is for a BrewHardware branded tank (or outside aluminum still in date) and the other one is for an non-BH aluminum tank that is out of date. It's a compromise that both the business and customer can live with and no one gets ripped off. There are some shops around here that will not take an outside tank period. You have to buy one of their branded tanks first and then you can swap forever with no hydro fees. As the business owner, I know that I will be paying for hydro services over the life of all the tanks and I accept that. What I won't do is pay the first one out of my pocket. I'm already making it convenient for the customer by getting the hydro done on their behalf (at a discount) and eating the cost of dropping off and picking it up at a facility. Once you're in the system, by owning a BH branded tank, the incentive to keep coming back is that we won't look at the hydro date on the swap.

This stuff isn't as intuitive as it may seem. It took a year to figure out a model that makes the most sense and we were practically just breaking even at the time when people were dumping all their out of date tanks on us. Based on the fact that we do an average of 10 swaps a day, I'd say the locals are pretty happy with it the way it is.

again- when the cost of certs is spread to all, the cost is proportional to level of use.

it seems to work just fine for the hydro shops. and propane suppliers.

 

[Erroneous]

You have hydroponics shops around?

About 2 hours away, but there's a welding supply and a medical gas place I'll look into for next time. There's an AirGas about 5 minutes from my house that will exchange (but won't fill) 20 lb tanks as well if neither of the above will fill 5 lb next time I need gas.

 

[SanPancho]

Unlike nitrogen, oxygen, argon etc which all come from the same air distillation process and are essentially equivalent in quality, CO2 comes from many sources. Some actually quite dirty and contaminated with things like hydrocarbons, carbon monoxide etc. This so called trash gas is typically sold for use in fire extinguishers, plant growing, cooling etc. The higher grades which come from things like ethanol production are sold as beverage or laser grade and are really the minimum that should be used to carbonate or push beer. Beware of people that tell you it's all the same because it's definitely not.

dont know where you're at but out here food grade is the default. anything less has to be contracted/processed by special request.

according to what i was told by the sales vp for NorCal area they base it on what the predominant customer use is for any particular market. we've got tons of food, medical and science so they default to food. we also have a few refineries but they make their own or contract with them apart from the regular business/consumer stream.

 

[geepmaley]

Anyone with input in DFW area? Been a while since I got anything. Looking for 5 and 20lb CO2 and 20lb N/CO2 beer gas

 

[bracconiere]

Visual Eddy Performed

so like you got stuck in a literal "Iron Maiden"?

 

[dwhite60]

I love bottling.