Co2 and kegging

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banefulwraith

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im not to sure about this... but i can't seem to find an answer for it so here goes... if i were to begin kegging.... why do i need to inject Co2?

i understand the carbonation, but as with a bottle. wouldn't injecting the Co2 have the same effect as priming the beer then throwing it inside a keg?

because if i can just get a keg, close her up, and wait a few weeks, this would be MUCH more economical and better in the long run... i just am wondering if it even would work?

i also dont see a point in adding the Co2 by hand unless you filtered the yeast out, but that is more expensive two time for filtering and Co2...
 
Sure, you can prime and carb a keg but you're still going to need the co2 to push the beer out of the keg and into your glass.
 
Mostly agree...

You can naturally carbonate in a keg...just the same you do in a bottle...of course, providing your keg has no leaks. Stir in your priming sugar...close it up...and wait.

Now...after a couple of weeks...and it's got the carbonation that you want, you have to make a decision. If you're going to chill the keg and serve it all at once...you can actually use a party pump which would inject air pressure into the keg to push the beer out. If you're not going to drink it all at one time...then the air that you injected will oxidize your beer...and since the head space in the keg doesn't have CO2...some of your CO2 will come out of solution and your beer will become flat. That's why MOST everyone uses the CO2...as a minimum to push the beer out of your keg. The space in the keg being displaced by pure CO2...won't allow beer oxidation...and if you do it properly, your beer will maintain it's desired carbonation level.

If you do decide to keg...look for the carbonation tables on this forum and others. They will give you an idea of what regulator setting to use, at what beer temperature to yeild the level of carbonation you desire...even if you naturally carbonate your beer...once you connect the regulator and start dispensing beer...you'll need to regulate that pressure in order to maintain that level of carbonation.

Hope that helps...Please fire away if I didn't answer your question. I honestly think that you'll be one happy camper when you make the leap into Kegging. I DO NOT MISS...the tub full of bottles soaking in bleach solution in my garage...and the filling and capping routine. I usually only bottle about 2 or 3 950ml bottles with each batch...and keg the rest. If you want small portable beer, there are options available. Some transfer kegged beer into bottles, some into plastic soft drink bottles with "carbonator" caps...so there are options there as well.
 
What they said, good advice. Sometimes kegs won't seal until you run up the CO2 a bit to force the lid up tight onto the O-ring. The gradual increase in pressure from priming isn't adequate to create a seal, so the CO2 just leaks out.

Once the lid is sealed, and the keg is holding pressure, you can drop the pressure down. Good Luck.
 
when naturally priming, i still hit the keg with 20PSI to seal the lid. then bleed the pressure and let it naturally carb for 3 weeks before putting it in the keezer. I use about 1/2 as much CO2 this way, because I am only using it to push.
 
CO2 is almost cheaper than priming sugar. I figure it's less than 80 cents a keg to carbonate and dispense.
 
let me understand this correctly.

if i am going to keg and use CO2 later to push the beer out, I still need to prime it with sugar for natural carbonation..correct? or will the CO2 thats pushing the beer out add carbonation to it as well?
 
let me understand this correctly.

if i am going to keg and use CO2 later to push the beer out, I still need to prime it with sugar for natural carbonation..correct? or will the CO2 thats pushing the beer out add carbonation to it as well?

You don't need sugar if you are using CO2. The gas will be forced into the beer under pressure, thus giving you carbonation. There are a couple of ways to do this, but the safest method is the 'set and forget' method, where you just let the keg sit at serving pressure for a week or two. More info can be found in the wiki section of this site.

You'll want to consult carbonation charts to make sure you are using the proper PSI for your particular style of beer.
 
hmm, seems like alot of great advice. thankyou very much everyone. my only question on top of this then would i geuss be... if i were to have say 3-4 kegs whatever and only one Co2 tank with regulator...

is it possible to keep them all carbed for serving? this way i can say hey you want IPA no problem, oh a belgain for you sure.... and have them ready to just be tapped and poured.

how would i go about doing this also?
 
hmm, seems like alot of great advice. thankyou very much everyone. my only question on top of this then would i geuss be... if i were to have say 3-4 kegs whatever and only one Co2 tank with regulator...

is it possible to keep them all carbed for serving? this way i can say hey you want IPA no problem, oh a belgain for you sure.... and have them ready to just be tapped and poured.

how would i go about doing this also?

You can do it. If you only have one regulator, you set it at serving pressure and just serve all the beers at the same pressure. I have four kegs on tap at the moment, just that way. Mine are carbed to 2.4 volumes of co2- the way I like them.

Some people like their beers carbed to style- that is lower carb for a beer like an English mild, more highly carbed for a wheat beer, etc. If you wish to do that, you'll need a secondary regulator. Either way it's pretty easy.

I sometimes like the secondary regulator so I can "quick carb" a beer. I like to set it at 30 psi for 48 hours or so, then change it to serving pressure. Also, soda (if you want to have root beer, for example) requires a different pressure. It's pretty easy to figure out, and easy to do.
 
so then i cant pre carb them and let them sit? , like flood them with Co2 like a week ahead of time, take the Co2 tank and regulater away, then when its time to open just grab a tap and go at it and still have them carbed?
 
so then i cant pre carb them and let them sit? , like flood them with Co2 like a week ahead of time, take the Co2 tank and regulater away, then when its time to open just grab a tap and go at it and still have them carbed?

Well, yes and no. If you get them to the correct volume of co2, and don't open them, they will stay carbed. But if you take them off of the co2 and also dispense, they will eventually lose the carbonation.

Why not get a distributor, and then keep them on the gas? I'm not sure what you're planning.
 
I have a question that I think was already answered. But..here goes. If I am kegging my beer, do I still need to add the Dry Malt Extract?? some places I have read, they say use 1/4-1/2 (~2-4 oz.) of what comes with the recipe kit if kegging. Not sure why this would be necessary as I thought the DME was for carbing the bottles, since I will 'force carb' the beer, why would I need this? thanks
 
I have a question that I think was already answered. But..here goes. If I am kegging my beer, do I still need to add the Dry Malt Extract?? some places I have read, they say use 1/4-1/2 (~2-4 oz.) of what comes with the recipe kit if kegging. Not sure why this would be necessary as I thought the DME was for carbing the bottles, since I will 'force carb' the beer, why would I need this? thanks

If you are force carbing, you don't need to add any priming sugar or DME.

Some people like to prime the kegs, so that they carb up at room temperature before going into the kegerator. Either way is fine.
 
Thanks...what if I was not force carbing...just letting the beer sit for a week in the keg with pressure (sorry, dont know the lingo yet, as this is the 1st batch I will be kegging) I still dont see the reason for DME as I will still supply the Co2. Thanks
 
Thanks...what if I was not force carbing...just letting the beer sit for a week in the keg with pressure (sorry, dont know the lingo yet, as this is the 1st batch I will be kegging) I still dont see the reason for DME as I will still supply the Co2. Thanks

Letting the beer sit for a week with pressure = force carbing. It might take a couple of weeks to be carbed up perfectly, but usually 7-10 days suffices if you place it on about 10-12 psi.

There isn't any need for DME, like I said.
 
I have a question that I think was already answered. But..here goes. If I am kegging my beer, do I still need to add the Dry Malt Extract?? some places I have read, they say use 1/4-1/2 (~2-4 oz.) of what comes with the recipe kit if kegging. Not sure why this would be necessary as I thought the DME was for carbing the bottles, since I will 'force carb' the beer, why would I need this? thanks

I will re-explain this in hopefully an easier format for everyone to see.

Natural carbonation in kegs with CO2 tank- In this method you use DME or corn sugar to carbonate the beer. The CO2 tank will only be used to "seat the seals" right after you put the priming sugar (usually half of what you would have used if putting carbing in bottles) into the keg with the un-carbed beer, and to also serve the beer. Though it may not be necessary to "seat the seals", most people do it if they have a tank because a quick 40 psi shot of co2 forces all of your o-rings to seal. Then you could remove the co2 tank and let the beer carbonate with the sugar.

Forced carbonation in kegs with CO2 tank (no DME used at all)- This is the most commonly used method of keg carbonating and serving. Once you rack your fermented beer into the keg, you look at a carbonation chart with will recommend the carbonation level you should use at any given temperature corresponding to the PSI pressure level you would need to reach that carbonation level. For the beer to carb right you should have it at a very low temp level, mid 30's is best because it will carb quicker at a lower pressure. So now you simply let it sit in the refrigerator of choice for about a week, I noticed that mine usually take 4 days to fully carb. Then you have to decide if your going to serve at that this same temp or base your serving temp off of the beer style. If the temp will be changed you must revert to the carb chart again for serving pressure. After the beer is carbed fully you can remove the CO2 tank at any time and the carbonation will stay in the beer as long as you DO NOT draw any beer out of it. Once you draw beer out of it you have lost pressure and the carbonation will slowly start to pull out of the beer until the pressures are equalized in the amount of dissolved CO2 in the beer and the CO2 in the head space above the beer in the keg.

Natural Carb with No CO2 tank- This is the least desired method. You will put in your DME and rack the beer on top of it in the keg, close it up and let it sit for a couple weeks to carb out. There will be pressure in the keg the same as in bottles. There are two negatives to this method... 1) you can never be sure that the o-rings are seated and won't leak, you might wait two weeks only to find out there was a small leak and your beer did not carb 2) you don't have a proper method to serving the beer and also being sure that proper carbonation will be kept. At the very least you should buy on of the CO2 shooters that uses the small CO2 cartrige, that method is better than injecting actual air into the keg with a party pump as the air will oxygenate the beer and make it taste like crap a few days later.


There are some other small variations that other people use but those are the most common. A couple other absolute necessities to mention are this

1) naturally carbonated beer often tastes better than force carbed beer... if I am doing a beer that is all about attention to detail I will use method #1 and only use the CO2 to seal and serve the keg.

2) when using natural carbonation you are going to be "reviving" some yeast and will always get some yeast sludge on the bottom of the keg. If you have picky friends make sure you pull about half a beer or so out of the keg and discard because the bottom is where it rests and the bottom is where the beer is drawn up from.

Good lord that was a long post but I think I covered as many details as I could without having to worry about getting a publisher. :mug:
 
Thanks Guys!! Great info. I am sure I will have more ?' when it is time to keg..still waiting for the kegerator, but the beer is still fermentin. Thanks a lot...now this makes much more sense.
 
Nice job Rollin'

I'm going to have to go ahead and disagree with the natural carb vs. force carb. I think force carb tastes much better than beer that's been naturally carbed, especially if I've crashed cooled my fermenter before kegging.

Crystal clear beer, no yeasty taste....but that is just me. Plus, not as long of a wait to wait from carbed beer!

Again, nice job on the explanation...
 
Whats your thaughts on the TAP-A-DRAFT system & the mini kegs? DO these really work? Ive read a few posts about them. I saw where I could order them empty without any logos.
 
Carb Chart + 4 days does not equal the volumes on the chart. That takes more than 2 weeks. If you like the carb level after 4 days, then you like carbonation levels much lower than what's on the chart.
 
I like this thread, lots of good explanations.
If I may just add, once I started kegging I started enjoying homebrewing a lot more. I still bottle, but it's from the keg and usually to free up the keg for the next batch or I'm bottling meads that have been bulk aged in the keg. Takes up less room, and a 20lb Co2 tank can last me years before having to refill it for around $20-$30.

FireNightFly- The tap a draft units are kind of expensive per volume, but they are small and portable and I hear they do work. Just a little more than I would want to spend.
I have a jockey box with a two line cold plate that I use to bring my homebrew to parties. It's a pain to fit everything into a sedan, and a little over kill for some of the parties. 10 gallons for 10 people drinking. (Always have a DD right)
 
You can do it. If you only have one regulator, you set it at serving pressure and just serve all the beers at the same pressure. I have four kegs on tap at the moment, just that way. Mine are carbed to 2.4 volumes of co2- the way I like them.

Some people like their beers carbed to style- that is lower carb for a beer like an English mild, more highly carbed for a wheat beer, etc. If you wish to do that, you'll need a secondary regulator. Either way it's pretty easy.

I sometimes like the secondary regulator so I can "quick carb" a beer. I like to set it at 30 psi for 48 hours or so, then change it to serving pressure. Also, soda (if you want to have root beer, for example) requires a different pressure. It's pretty easy to figure out, and easy to do.


Hey man whats up? I just wanted to ask you a question regarding your "quick carb" method. Are you saying to put at 30 psi for 2 days or so and then bleed excess pressure off, set at serving pressure (10-12psi,) and enjoy?

Also, When doing this do you shake or roll?
 
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