Cleaning and Sanitizing?

[tooblue02]

So as I mentioned in a previous thread I will be starting my first batch tomorrow and I am a little concerned with my lack of knowledge with the cleaning and sanitizing chemicals currently in my possession. First I have the PBW for cleaning, now my gear is all new obviously so should I still clean it with this cleaner? If I should can I fill one of the 6.7 gallon buckets/fermenters with the cleaner and put the other stuff required for the brewing process in that bucket/fermenter and clean it at the same time? Same question with the sanitizer (I have the STAR SAN)... I guess I am very concerned with the cleaning and sanitizing of the equipment as I have heard time and time again that it is critical to the success for brewing and I would like to establish this process first before moving on to more brewing. Thank you for the help! Very excited to get my hands clean!

 

[aiptasia]

Sanitization is the most important step in brewing. There's no doubt about it. You need to provide your yeast with a very clean wort and clean conditions so that they can dominate the wort. Other foreign yeasts, bacteria and fungus are your enemies here.

Having new equipment makes your sanitizing just slightly easier for it's first use only. PBW is an excellent cleaner that can power through a lot of grunge, dried yeast gunk (old krausen) and actively dissolves a lot of crap. It's easy to mix it up and just let it sit in your buckets and carboys to dissolve all kinds of crap. It's great but a little pricey and you can eventually switch to Oxyclean Free (the dye and perfume free version of oxyclean, look for the green label on the laundry detergent aisle). Oxy free will do pretty much the same job for less money.

Star san is an acid based sanitizer that acidifies water to a pH below 5.0. This low pH level is beneficial in that at that level, the pH kills microbes of all types. Ever wonder why honey never gets infected with mold or bacteria? It's because it has a low pH (3.9 on average). Star san works the same way. Just mix up a batch with some tap water according to instructions and soak and scrub all of your equipment, bottles, caps, everything in it and it sanitizes it as long as there's a minimum 2 minute contact time. With all new equipment, this is probably the only sanitizing step you'll need to make for this brew. It's a no-rinse sanitizer so you just hose everything down with it and let it sit. It won't hurt the beer in your bottles or kegs because as soon as you change the pH by pouring the beer into them, it renders the sanitizer inert.

Just be careful to clean and sanitize all of your gear and try not to scratch anything. Scratches can harbor bacteria that will infect your beer, so don't use anything harsher than a soft sponge or paper towel to do your cleaning. If something gets all grungy, soak it in PBW. Let the PBW do the work for you.

 

[woozy]

Just keep in mind cleaning and sanitizing are different concepts. Cleaning in context of brewing means pretty much the same as cleaning in context of anything else. Except this time you should really mean it. Your equipment really should be *clean* and not "meh, good enough".

So, no you don't need to clean your new equipment before the first use.


Sanitizing is the biggy in brewing. Just make sure that (after boil; before boil *nothing* matters--- after boil *everything matters) everything that touches anything is sanitized. Basically you'll just get in the habit of dunking or spraying everything in starsan solution before each time you use it. And, yes, you do sanitize your new equipment.

Because sanitizing and cleaning are different and separate concepts:
Don't sanitize anything that's dirty or try to clean via sanitizing.
Clean after use and store clean.
Sanitize *before* use. You can *not* store sanitized because it won't stay sanitized so there's no point in sanitizing after use.


Don't worry. You're allowed 20 screw-ups your first brew. Then it's 10 screw-ups your second, three your third and then it's two screw-ups every three batches after that.

Good luck. You'll do fine.

 

[EineProsit]

Uhh.... YeaH...what all woozy said

 

[tooblue02]

Thanks for the comments and help, I guess maybe I don't fully understand... tomorrow when I clean and sanitize, I am really just doing the boiler, fermenter, stirrer, and hydrometer? Then in a few days the secondary fermenter and associated transfer equipment? So many questions, so many things to mess up, I know my first batch is going to be a shot in the dark at success but I am glad there is such a great resource out here. Drinking some ballast point IPA tonight in preps for my own tomorrow. Can't believe I am finally doing it!

 

[W0rthog]

First off, Congrats on taking the plunge.
Basically you need anything that comes into contact with the cooled wort and yeast to be sanitized. When I clean my buckets, I simply use a non-odor/clear dish soap (cheaper). It doesn't contain the compounds that are in PBW or Oxyclean. Since buckets are easy to scrub, it works and rinses easy. I only use PBW/Oxyclean when I need it to eat up grunge. PBW and Oxyclean must be thoroughly rinsed!
Puts some Star-San solution in a spray bottle and shoot anything that moves.

 

[woozy]

Thanks for the comments and help, I guess maybe I don't fully understand... tomorrow when I clean and sanitize, I am really just doing the boiler, fermenter, stirrer, and hydrometer?

You _clean_ everything just as though you were doing dishes. You don't cook or eat out of dishes that have grease stains or food residues on them and that's really all you need to know about cleaning. *Everyone* understands cleaning.

It's the sanitizing that is probably throwing you off. So here's how it goes (although others [I'm thinking uniondr] have routine more patly clocked out):

You do your boil. Sanitation isn't nescessary because when you boil things the heat will sanitize.

You prepare a clean work space with a wide shallow dish of sanitizer solution and a spray bottle with sanitizer solution in it.

You put a bit of sanitizer in your fermenter and seal it and you swish it around so that the entire inner surface gets coated and you pour the sanitizer out into your wide shallow dish. Do *not* rinse the fermenter because starsan is a no-rinse sanitizer. Seal the fermenter back up to keep exposure to the air minimum.

Take *everything* you're going to use for the rest of the brew day-- your metal spoon, your thermometer, your hydrometer, a strainer if you you're going to use one-- *everything* and put it in or near the dish. Whenever you use *anything* you will give it a five second dunk in the dish of sanitizer. Or you'll give it a spritz with the spray bottle.

You take the wort and cool it. Every time you reach for a spoon give it a five second dunk. Every time you reach for the thermometer you give it a dunk. Transfer the wort to the fermenter (!wait! is the fermenter sanitized? Yes! You did that already. phew. You get into the habit that *every* time the wort touches something you ask yourself "is it sanitized" and if it isn't you sanitize it.)

Pitch yeast.

Everything's good for now.

So a few days later take a reading. What'll you need? A wine thief or turkey baster and a hydrometer. The wine thief will touch the wort. So sanitize it. The hydrometer will touch the wort. Sanitize it? Well, is the sample going *back* in the wort? If so, yes sanitize it. If not you don't have to.

So now you transfer secondary (um, you do know you don't *have* to, don't you? Jes' saying.) Need to sanitize the secondary vessel. Pour a bit of sanitizer solution and slosh it about so it coats the entire interior including the lid. How are we going to get the beer from the first fermenter to the secondary. With a racking cane/auto siphon and tubing. Soak those all in sanitizer solution.

And so on.

Can't believe I am finally doing it!

Believe it! Congratulations and good luck.

 

[tooblue02]

Woozy,

Thanks a bunch, that is what I am looking for, worrying about it since I bought all the stuff yesterday! I have a good recipe, a good set of equipment, and now some knowledge (enough to be dangerous!) Thanks again, I will be sure to let you all know how it turns out. Thanks again!

 

[woozy]

What I didn't do at first was take care with spigots. If you have equipment that has components-- spigots, botttle wands, three piece airlocks-- you should take them apart and soak each piece individually (doesn't have to soak long) and you should assemble them wet.

With tubing make sure you get the insides thouroughly wet. Best to submerge them. I usually have a pot or a pan with a half gallon to a gallon of sanitizer and I just put things in to soak. As long as the equipment is clean, you can soak things and then pour the solution into a storage container and save and re-use. As long as its mostly clean, not cloudy, and not overly deluded it's still good.

It'll all make sense eventually. Good luck.

 

[C-Rider]

What I didn't do at first was take care with spigots. If you have equipment that has components-- spigots, botttle wands, three piece airlocks-- you should take them apart and soak each piece individually (doesn't have to soak long) and you should assemble them wet.

With tubing make sure you get the insides thouroughly wet. Best to submerge them. I usually have a pot or a pan with a half gallon to a gallon of sanitizer and I just put things in to soak. As long as the equipment is clean, you can soak things and then pour the solution into a storage container and save and re-use. As long as its mostly clean, not cloudy, and not overly deluded it's still good.

It'll all make sense eventually. Good luck.

This is pretty dam important what woozy said here and above.

Also if you are NOT adding anything to your fermenting beer after it's in the primary you can skip the secondary as it's not really needed and there is a chance to infect it everytime you touch it. Just let it sit in the primary for 3 weeks. And enjoy.

 

[unionrdr]

I had to chuckle at that remark woozy. I have tried to make my process a series of "habits" if you will. Make them routine habits & they're easier to remember. Looks like you've been paying attention. After the first time use of my brewing kit & all the things I've added on to it,I clean my 5 gallon SS brew kettle with about an inch of PBW (1.5oz per gallon of water) & a Dobie brand scrubber to get it clean after rinsing out the heavy stuff. Since it was polished to begin with,the Dobie scrubber's fine grain sponge covered with tough nylon mesh shines it right up like a mirror. After rinsing my plastic fermenters,I put in 3TBSP of PBW & fill to just above the crud ring. Soaking a few hours to overnight settles all the grunge to the bottom. Scrub lightly inside with soft cloth or bottle brush to loosen anything still clinging to the sides. Empty through spigot into a home depot orange bucket to rinse out the spigot too. Add rinse water & repeat. I sanitize it before storage.
Dito with anything else used on brewday. Put'em away clean & sanitized.
Having said all that,since you're using them for the first time,you'd do these things after your first brew. for now,mix 1oz of Starsan in 5 gallons of water in an food safe plastic bucket. Or in your fermenter this time. Put in your long handled spoon/paddle,any racking tubes,blow off tubes,auto siphons...anything that'll touch the beer after the boil & wort chill. I like to sanitize them before using in the BK as well,just to be sure something tougher than boiling water might be on them that starsan can nutralize.
When you do your boil,at least keep a spray bottle of Starsan handy for any last moment sanitizing before use. I have a seperate routine for cleaning & sanitizing hop & grain socks,& nylon paint strainer bags for storage & re-use. So those are ready to go to sock hops for the boil to keep trub to a minumum.
I have a floating thermometer I use in my mashes,a dial thermometer & an infrared (laser) pen thermometer for keeping tabs on sparge water temps or steeping. For mashing & steeping,since those temps are usually below 160F pasteurizing temp,I clean & sanitize them before storage & right before use.
While the mash and later boil are going,I remove the sanitizer from the fermenter to my homer cheapo bucket & remove the spigot. Take it apart & soak it briefly in PBW & use aquarium lift tube brushes to clean inside them. Rinse & dunk in Starsan & re-assemble to fermenter wet. Do not tighten the spigot to the point where the seal squeezes out of place,or it'll leak precious wort later. Keep sanitized lid on fermenter while chilling wort. I keep my sanitized floating thermometer in the BK while chilling to monitor temps. I do partial boils,so a couple gallons of local spring water have been chilling in the fridge for a couple days for top off. Chill wort to about 75F,then pour through dual layer fine mesh strainer into fermenter. This gets out the gunk & aerates pretty good too. Pour in chilled top off water from high up to aerate some more. spray your spoon/paddle with Starsan before stiring it all roughly for 5 minutes. This will aerate even more,& mix chilled wort & top off water well. You need to do this to get an accurate reading with your hydrometer. And sanitize the hydrometer & tube before taking a sample to test for OG. Since it's just sweet wort,I never saw any reason to taste it. Just pour it back in after a quick testing. Seal it up & install sanitized airlock. I fill it with cheap grocery store vodka so that any nasties that get in it die of alcohol poisoning.
This way,if you get a suck back,it's all dead & won't infect your beer.
I think,at this point,woozy & I pretty well covered it all. But y'all still ask questions...it's a quick way to learn around here!...

 

[woozy]

I had to chuckle at that remark woozy. I have tried to make my process a series of "habits" if you will. Make them routine habits & they're easier to remember.

I really admire your ability to make things into a routine and to spell it all out. Whenever I try I trip over the details. I like to do "everything for a reason and a reason for everything" approach. But I fear I come off discombobulated.

 

[unionrdr]

Thanks for that. I guess it comes from the mechanical abilities granpa passed on to my father that passed it onto me. I always supposed that such things could be passed down as pre-dispositions...something like natural selection.
Funny how in my mind,I start thinking on a problem in my concious mind. Then my sub-concious takes over sorta like a CPU to get the solution. Then my concious mind gets it...sorta like a vision or something...complete in every detail. Idk...Maybe God hears my thoughts & puts it in my head?
I just picture it,like a "splinter of the minds eye". Then seeing what needs to be done atm,I just execute it. I spent a good amount of time over the years during quiet moments Thinking this thought process over,& this description is about as close as I can come to describing the inner workings of the human thought process. Mine anyway. Maybe this can help you or others?...

 

[RandyA]

Thank you for taking the time to help us learn. I was wondering about topping off with chilled spring water. If you have cooled the wort to 75, and add chilled spring water, has the chilled water been boiled prior to chilling or is there some possibility that infection could come from the top off water since the wort is no longer above 160?

Thanks in advance for helping me with this.

RandyA

 

[unionrdr]

I sanitize the gallon jugs with starsan & cap tightly right before going to the source for the spring water. they filter it besides to certain standards by revised federal laws that also made my 10c a gallon water go up to 25c a gallon. So no worries. I use it straight outta the fridge with no boiling. But as I said,the water is put into freshly sanitized jugs. I've done some 9 PB/PM BIAB's now with that same water & not a trace of infection.
Having said that,When I cool the wort down to ~75F & strain into fermenter, the chilled top off water gets it down to 64-65F.

 

[woozy]

If you boil the water you are safe. If you haven't you need to worry about microbes in the water. Now *I* am of the opinion there aren't likely to be any (chlorides are a separate issue) microbes in most water systems so I never worry about city tap. Nor bottled. Your own spring water? *I* wouldn't worry but you might want to do your own research.

My understanding is that it's specific airborn microbes (wild yeasts and bacteria) that compete with yeast or grow on their own. I don't think these really occur in water much. But that's only *my* understanding.

 

[woozy]

Duh! Didn't think about the containers. ... Well, seems minal and if you sanitize... Hmm.... I no lo get know what to think about bottled water.


Still it's probay minimal....

 

[RandyA]

Thanks guys. I appreciate the clarification.

 

[tooblue02]

Well, I went after it today and cleaned and sanitized probably everything but I may have missed here and there. Hopefully the stuff I focused on (fermenter mostly and associated equipment) will be fine.

My OG came out at 1.077 (1.076 @70 degrees) and the recipe says it should be at 1.068, so I am not sure if I made an error or not. Hopefully it just comes out better in the end!

Thanks again for the help with the sanitizing stuff, now the really hard part of waiting begins!

 

[woozy]

My OG came out at 1.077 (1.076 @70 degrees) and the recipe says it should be at 1.068, so I am not sure if I made an error or not. Hopefully it just comes out better in the end!

Extract or all-grain? That's not bad. If it's accurate it'll be a bit stronger but not undrinkably so. Most would consider that a good think. A somewhat large beer like that should ferment a good long time. Be patient now.

Congratulations.

 

[tooblue02]

It was using LME (10lbs!) and the recipe called for 1oz of hops at the start of boiling, 1oz 40mins later, and 2oz 15mins later boiling a total of 60 mins. Is that why they call them 60 minute IPA's? 90 minute IPA's? Haven't read up on that but I am excited to!

I checked it this morning and had some good indications coming from the airlock. Planning on letting it sit for more than the time it calls for in the recipe.

 

[unionrdr]

They're called 60,90,120 minute IPA's for the amount of time they're hopped. You take the total amount of hops you're going to use,then divide that total amount by the number of minutes you'll be adding them to my understanding.

 

[woozy]

They're called 60,90,120 minute IPA's for the amount of time they're hopped.

I understand this. A 90 minute IPA has hops that have been boiling 90 minutes. Cool! I can dig it.

You take the total amount of hops you're going to use,then divide that total amount by the number of minutes you'll be adding them to my understanding.

I don't understand this. So 4 oz. of hops divided by 90 minutes is 0.0444444444 oz/minutes. And we use this to....? Uncool. I can't dig it.

 

[unionrdr]

Well,you basically hop once a minute for 60,90,120 minutes. Sam does use a lot of hops in that time though. He has videos on youtube somewhere that show him doing it. On our level,I think hop bursting might be more feasible.

 

[woozy]

Well,you basically hop once a minute for 60,90,120 minutes.

Oh, so you mean it's a continual hopping? Rather than 1 oz at 90. 1 at 60. 1 at 30, and one at flame out, it's .0444444 at every minute?

That make sense (although it seems difficult).

Cool. I can proceed to dig it now.

 

[rockymountainredneck]

I'm kind of barging in on someone else's question here (hope you don't mind tooblue02), but I have my own question about cleaning and sanitizing. I'm also a new brewer, I've done 2 batches, and both came out absolutely awful so I'm trying to avoid going 0-3. My dad got me a goodie bag with a bunch of brewing equipment, and in that package is a can of "One Step" brand no rinse cleaner. Reading the product description implies that it is a cleaner AND a sanitizer...but I've been led to believe that you can have either a cleaner OR a sanitizer. My original idea was to use PBW as my cleaner and Star-San as my sanitizer. Which one would this product replace?

 

[unionrdr]

It's a cleaner. Rinse it & sanitize with Starsan. Starsan is a no rinse sanitizer. Most of us use Starsan & PBW or Oxyfree for cleaning. I prefer the PBW/Starsan combo for ease of use & great cleaning ability.

 

[tooblue02]

No worries, thanks to the help I received from these guys, my first batch came out to be quite amazing! 12 gone and a big thumbs up from everyone who has tasted it (and liked a hoppy beer). The beer came out clear, and tasted delicious, I just put some more in the fridge and my second batch is going on 2 weeks in the primary, should be bottling next week, not sure how it is going yet since i just got home from a long trip up north, will check tomorrow. Thanks again for the help, and definitely go with the STARSAN!