Clarifying homebrew beer question!

[Nubiwan]

why clarify? think of all the vitamins you'll be losing!

Think of all the farts you'll be avoiding!

 

[bracconiere]

Think of all the farts you'll be avoiding!

because your colon will be locked up tight.....

 

[3dB Brewing]

Whirlfloc and Irish Moss (carrageenan), isenglass (collagen), gelatin, BrewTan B (gallotannin), Clarity Ferm (endoprotease), and PVPP (don't ask) are all useful fining agents for homebrew. Here's the science.

 

[Nuke83]

I don't think he posts any longer but Brewing Viking does a nice job demonstrating how to use gelatin to clarify your beer. When I do clarify, I do it this way.
~5 minute video worth your time.

Someone help me understand the logic here. He either misspeaks or I misunderstand. He boils the water he intends to bloom the gelatin in advance to remove oxygen. Once he finishes the gelatin/water mixture and adds to his "fermenter", he states to purge off the CO2 and agitate it to mix the gelatin with the beer. Is he actually doing this in a fermenter or in a pressurized, carbonated keg? Maybe he's using a pressurized fermenter, but if you follow his video, you're going to introduce a bunch of oxygen into uncarbonated beer, which makes his boiling of the water in advance a complete waste of time.

I currently have 5 gallons fermenting and plan to cold crash, add gelatin, then transfer to a keg after 24 hours. I plan to mix the gelatin and simply pour into the fermenter and reinsert my airlock to minimize oxygen exposure.

 

[Phitz]

I am a newbie and my first brew cleared remarkably well in the bottle after 2 weeks of conditioning and 2 weeks in the fridge. I personally don’t care about cloudy beer as long as it’s delivering all of the flavor components, but that’s just me!

 

[Toxxyc]

Yeah I have never stirred in the gelatin either. Just pour it in. Takes seconds.

And yes, clear beer is just looks (for the most part), but if you've done a few hundred litres like most of us on here you tend to want to improve the small things - like clarity. I now fine all my beers. After fermentation I'll cold crash and leave it there for a few weeks, then add gelatin and leave it for another week or two and then I'll continue with the process.

 

[odie]

I've only recently started using gelatin. Mostly for light and amber colored beers. The darker beers I have not bothered with yet. Mostly I am concerned with sediment or cloudiness of suspended whatever that should have dropped into the trub cake but did not and worried about it affecting flavor. I've had a couple beers that tasted "silty" and I can only attribute that to the cloudiness.

I'm adding gelatin to the keg. After I cold crash the fermenter I pour off a cup of beer and add a pack of gelatin. microwave in bursts until 150 and it's all dissolved good. keg the beer and pour the gelatin in. seal and purge keg and shake it good.

Do I even have to shake the keg to mix up the gelatin or does the gelatin naturally come to the top of the keg and then slowly "fall" to the bottom as it collects sediment?

 

[VikeMan]

Do I even have to shake the keg to mix up the gelatin or does the gelatin naturally come to the top of the keg and then slowly "fall" to the bottom as it collects sediment?

I wouldn't shake. The gelatin, after being poured in gently, starts at the top and slowly works its way down, clearing the beer. Homogenizing it with the beer right away would be counterproductive.

 

[Nuke83]

I've only recently started using gelatin. Mostly for light and amber colored beers. The darker beers I have not bothered with yet. Mostly I am concerned with sediment or cloudiness of suspended whatever that should have dropped into the trub cake but did not and worried about it affecting flavor. I've had a couple beers that tasted "silty" and I can only attribute that to the cloudiness.

I'm adding gelatin to the keg. After I cold crash the fermenter I pour off a cup of beer and add a pack of gelatin. microwave in bursts until 150 and it's all dissolved good. keg the beer and pour the gelatin in. seal and purge keg and shake it good.

Do I even have to shake the keg to mix up the gelatin or does the gelatin naturally come to the top of the keg and then slowly "fall" to the bottom as it collects sediment?

I'm going to do my first attempt at gelatin for clarification with ale currently in my fermenter. I'm curious about you using the actual beer as the liquid to dissolve your gelatin. I considered this myself, but was concerned that by nuking beer to get it to 150/160F, I'd be skunking it, then adding an off-flavor cup into my beer, whereas using water won't add any off-flavors. It sounds like you've used your method a time or two. Have you not had any issue with off-flavors from microwaving your beer?

 

[VikeMan]

I considered this myself, but was concerned that by nuking beer to get it to 150/160F, I'd be skunking it,

Skunking is caused by radiation at/near the UV part of the spectrum. Microwaves are nowhere near that. I don't really know if microwaves could cause other issues, but they shouldn't skunk the beer.

ETA: the heat wouldn't be great for the beer that gets microwaved, i.e. it would accelerate staling (maybe 2-3 times faster for each 10 degrees celcius of increase, compounding). OTOH it would only be for a short period of time and for a small amount of the beer.

 

[odie]

I used beer since I felt using water would be "watering down" the beer. Like when you over reach your target OG you can add water and then pitch your yeast and be ok. But if FG too high you just can't add water and it be the same as your intended FG.

As far as "shaking"...I was assuming you wanted the gelatin to be thoroughly mixed in the beer to bind with all the "stuff". If it's not mixed well how does it bind with "all" the stuff? I've read where normally you pour in the gelatin mix and then rack the beer, which would kinda mix the gelatin anyway?

How exactly does the gelatin "mix" and do it's thing? Somehow it has to interact with "all" the beer to achieve uniform clarity.

 

[VikeMan]

How exactly does the gelatin "mix" and do it's thing? Somehow it has to interact with "all" the beer to achieve uniform clarity.

My understanding is that as it slowly sinks, it also spreads out (laterally). So even if you had poured it in just one tiny spot, it will still spread out. As it spreads and sinks, it picks up yeast and some proteins along the way, which is how it clarifies.

The problem with starting out homogenous, as I see it, is that the gelatin near the bottom doesn't encounter/pick up everything it could before it reaches the bottom.

 

[odie]

makes sense...so you think I should add the gelatin after the keg is filled and not while filling it?

 

[VikeMan]

makes sense...so you think I should add the gelatin after the keg is filled and not while filling it?

That's the way I do it. And I think that's the way most do.

 

[Tom R]

Easy-peasy.
Reduce keg pressure to a few PSI, and give it the gelatin.
Sometimes I inject it into the conical. Either way works fine.
And very little O2 gets in.

 

[superiorsat]

Someone help me understand the logic here. He either misspeaks or I misunderstand. He boils the water he intends to bloom the gelatin in advance to remove oxygen. Once he finishes the gelatin/water mixture and adds to his "fermenter", he states to purge off the CO2 and agitate it to mix the gelatin with the beer. Is he actually doing this in a fermenter or in a pressurized, carbonated keg? Maybe he's using a pressurized fermenter, but if you follow his video, you're going to introduce a bunch of oxygen into uncarbonated beer, which makes his boiling of the water in advance a complete waste of time.

I currently have 5 gallons fermenting and plan to cold crash, add gelatin, then transfer to a keg after 24 hours. I plan to mix the gelatin and simply pour into the fermenter and reinsert my airlock to minimize oxygen exposure.

Yes this guy is introducing oxygen after he tried to remove it. Even if you do as I mentioned in post 23 there is always going to be a slight oxygen pick up if your just dumping in.

 

[marc1]

Someone help me understand the logic here. He either misspeaks or I misunderstand. He boils the water he intends to bloom the gelatin in advance to remove oxygen. Once he finishes the gelatin/water mixture and adds to his "fermenter", he states to purge off the CO2 and agitate it to mix the gelatin with the beer. Is he actually doing this in a fermenter or in a pressurized, carbonated keg? Maybe he's using a pressurized fermenter, but if you follow his video, you're going to introduce a bunch of oxygen into uncarbonated beer, which makes his boiling of the water in advance a complete waste of time.

I currently have 5 gallons fermenting and plan to cold crash, add gelatin, then transfer to a keg after 24 hours. I plan to mix the gelatin and simply pour into the fermenter and reinsert my airlock to minimize oxygen exposure.

In his video boiling beforehand seems pointless because he's pouring the cooled water afterwards, letting it sit, the mixing it with a wisk . Pre-boiling for sanitation I can understand. I don't think it's doing much for O2 in this instance.

 

[Nuke83]

In his video boiling beforehand seems pointless because he's pouring the cooled water afterwards, letting it sit, the mixing it with a wisk . Pre-boiling for sanitation I can understand. I don't think it's doing much for O2 in this instance.

Hence the reason for my question. He specifically states around 0:50 that he boiled to remove all the oxygen. Then everything he does thereafter not only introduces oxygen, but seems to do so on steriods.

Some things I see and read just seem counterintuitive (case in point), but since I'm relatively new to the hobby, I don't want to just assume anything.

 

[Birrofilo]

Someone help me understand the logic here. He either misspeaks or I misunderstand. He boils the water he intends to bloom the gelatin in advance to remove oxygen. Once he finishes the gelatin/water mixture and adds to his "fermenter", he states to purge off the CO2 and agitate it to mix the gelatin with the beer. Is he actually doing this in a fermenter or in a pressurized, carbonated keg? Maybe he's using a pressurized fermenter, but if you follow his video, you're going to introduce a bunch of oxygen into uncarbonated beer, which makes his boiling of the water in advance a complete waste of time.

For what I get, he suggests to open the fermenter, pour the gelatin, close the cap, purge air with CO2 so as to greatly reduce the oxygen inside the fermenter, and then agitate in order to spread the gelatin evenly on the beer. That shouldn't raise the oxydation of the beer (if not very slightly) because the gas that the beer incorporates is mostly CO2. Besides, he suggests that the gelatin is mixed so he doesn't want to really incorporate anything in the beer, the agitation should be gentle, not "splashing", he suggests using a pump which is a way to mix the beer without splashing it.

I think the worry about spreading the gelatine evenly is superfluous, the traditional way British brewers fine their casks is to just throw the gelatin in the barrels.

 

[Nuke83]

For what I get, he suggests to open the fermenter, pour the gelatin, close the cap, purge air with CO2 so as to greatly reduce the oxygen inside the fermenter, and then agitate in order to spread the gelatin evenly on the beer. That shouldn't raise the oxydation of the beer (if not very slightly) because the gas that the beer incorporates is mostly CO2. Besides, he suggests that the gelatin is mixed so he doesn't want to really incorporate anything in the beer, the agitation should be gentle, not "splashing", he suggests using a pump which is a way to mix the beer without splashing it.

I think the worry about spreading the gelatine evenly is superfluous, the traditional way British brewers fine their casks is to just throw the gelatin in the barrels.

OK, now I get it. He says "purge the fermenter of CO2" and what he really means is "purge WITH" to get rid of the oxygen. It wasn't making any sense to purge the fermenter OF CO2, then agitate, which would do the opposite of what he intends.

 

[odie]

gelatin is a great clarifier. you can just dump some bloomed gelatin right into the primary fermenter. give it a day or two, and it should be much more clear without totally dropping out the yeast you need for priming.

that kinda implies that you just bloom it in some water and then dump it in, no heating to melt it. Is that what you do?

I wonder if you could just open a keg, sprinkle a packet in and close it back up...would it bloom, spread out on top, slowly dissolve, sink and collect everything?

 

[FromZwolle]

that kinda implies that you just bloom it in some water and then dump it in, no heating to melt it. Is that what you do?

I wonder if you could just open a keg, sprinkle a packet in and close it back up...would it bloom, spread out on top, slowly dissolve, sink and collect everything?

bloom in warm water to dissolve, then into the keg/fermenter/etc.

i haven't tried, but i would be hesitant to sprinkle it in. it seems like the powder likes to clump and settle to the bottom of a glass very quickly, so i can only assume it would do the same i a 'bigger glass' like a keg.

 

[odie]

when i pour the powder into some water it just blooms and stays on top. I haven't let it sit long enough cold to observe if it then sinks fast.

After it blooms I immediately zap it a few times and stir it up. Haven't experimented with just sprinkle cold and sit...hmmm

 

[Toxxyc]

It won't work if you sprinkle it cold. I had to go in hot and dissolved in a liquid. Gelatin doesn't dissolve if the solution it's dropped in isn't hot, so dropping it in the cold-crashed beer just won't work.

I don't understand why it's difficult to understand gents. Boil water. Dissolve gelatin. Pour into cold-crashed beer. Done.